Sonny Heung-min

I am not familiar with Canadian broadcast mega-conglomerates, what are the all the different potential ramifications of this for sport and soccer? Will TSN be more likely to air the CPL now?

No matter how good the quality of the players is, you can not replicate the environment and mentality of senior men's football. This is often discussed heavily in the UK, Premier League 2 despite having some of the best young players in the world is not a replacement for getting first team minutes in actual competitive games, with fans in stands against experienced pro's who's livelihoods depend on whether their team performs that year. Elite premier league academy players often say there is no replacement for loan at national league, league 2 and 1 level. You could maybe argue that the CPL with its u21 requirements and low turnouts isn't a true equivalent of senior men's football in the EFL, but MLS Next Pro is certainly even worse and closer to a Premier League 2 experience. I think it is likely to depend on the player on whether they think a PL2-esque or lower-league-esque experience is more beneficial to the player. Do not be surprised when both are used by TFC and VWFC to develop players.

@Spungi Have you got York united season tickets? I am interested if AFC Toronto do anything different/improve the game day experience in any way at York lions stadium.

Yes the main project is huge new swimming pool/recreation center/school/Park upgrade development, which will actually cost more than $240m in total. I believe a big reason for hosting the CPL Kelowna game this year was a proof of concept to convince local politicians to include and fund a CPL soccer stadium in this development which was already going to include a brand new Fifa grade soccer fields. There is likely work been done to decide whether to replace the apple bowl or build something new. If they committee to building the stadium a CPL team will likely be announced. The stadium might need additional funding or draw from the rec center redevelopment funding, all is yet to be confirmed. Early concept drawing below:

There are many stadium developments bubbling away in the background which may or may not one day develop the stadium situations for the CPL. I have collated everything I could find in one place so we can track when things progress or not. Team Stadium Surface Capacity Development Detail Timeline Cost Source HFX Wanderers Wanders Grounds Grass 6,500 Proposal for permanent 8,500 stadium with new artificial turf. To be debated and approved by end of 2024. May-26 $40m New Stadium Forge FC Tim Hortons field Artificial Turf 23,218 - - - Atlético Ottawa TD Place Artificial Turf 24,000 As part of Lansdown 2.0, which includes a new north stand decreasing total capacity by ~2,000 and potentially allowing new camera angle to include stand with fans in. 2029 $170m Lansdowne 2.0: Crucial step for project approved by council | CTV News Cavalry FC ATCO Field Grass 6,000 Potential move to 12,000 new ground to the north of Spurce Meadows when demand is sufficient. (Plan updated every 10 years next one 2029.) TBC Unknown 12,000-seat Cavalry FC soccer stadium and field house part of future vision of Spruce Meadows | CBC News Pacific FC Starlight Stadium Artificial Turf 5-6,000 Expansion of new 4,000 Seat Grandstand on empty northside subject to a referendum. Apr-26 $10-14m Expand Starlight Vote Valour FC Princess Auto Stadium Artificial Turf 33,000 - - - Vancouver FC Willoughby Community Park Artificial Turf 6,560 Potentially adding roof coverings to the main west stand of the stadium. - - York United York Lions Stadium Artificial Turf 4,000 Potential move to renovated Allan A. Lamport Stadium or new 8,000 seat stadium at woodbine casino. 2026 $10m+ Woodbine Entertainment New Stadium AFC Toronto could play at Lamport Stadium Simcoe County Rovers TBA TBA TBA Potential new soccer stadium at former Barrie Central Collegiate property for MLS Next, Porject 8 or one day CPL. Full details to be announced in coming weeks. Sep-24 Strong mayor power utilized by Nuttall to pause work on waterfront sports field (barrie360.com) Windsor CPL McHugh's Park Artificial Turf TBA New turf field at Mchughs Park arriving 2025, with potential for "a stadium with turf on the north side of the park, home to a CPL team." 2026+ $3m+ Windsor wants to be a soccer destination | CTV News Kelowna CPL Parkinson Recreation Centre TBA TBA New Kelowna Community Campus to replace the Parkinson Recreation Park, could feature brand new soccer stadium or developed apple bowl. 2027 $241m Kelowna largest development project ever Please let me know if there are any that I have missed or any new updates that occur and I will update the Master List.

If you genuinely don't want to be the guy to say 'I told you so' all you have to do it stop saying 'I told you so' repeatedly over and over again. I want to read about the CPL, you are on every thread about the CPL, you say relevant things half the time. You're on a crusade the other half. I am not going to block you, I am going to keep asking you to beware hubris and tone down the semi-religious fanaticism.

I am not interested in debating the subjectivity of what is or isn't league growth. I just want to be able to read a CPL news story or development on this forum and not hear "We're domed! I am the messiah with knowledge of a panacea for all CPL ills, a CHL style bus league..." Some of the news stories and developments will be good, some bad, but please tone it down on the hostile preconceived agenda, which is basically a one man crusade at this point.

Easy answer to this one, it is boring. A third of your posts are "We're domed! I am the messiah with knowledge of a panacea for all CPL ills, a CHL style bus league..." It is boring. Beware hubris, stop dreaming about 'I told you so', be constructive not provocative, be less boring.

It is prudent to be cautious but if the CPL fails I am sure you will miss watching the matches, if it does last you will regret not embracing and enjoying its growth from these early years. Like you say professional soccer across Canada is not a given and has failed in the past, so it is logical to not be so gloomy while it can currently be enjoyed. Please beware hubris, the world and Canada are very different now compared to 1992, post 2026 things will not revert back to 1992. I have greatly enjoyed seeing the development of both the CPL and League 1 Canada from 2018 to now and argue there is reasonable chance of it growing further. It is not perfect there are many issues with CSB, franchise fees, self interests etc... You can catastrophize about a post 2026 professional soccer all you want, if you're wrong about this particular issue, I am sure you will find a new reason to be predict the demise of pro soccer in Canada. You think Valour FC is going to go under soon or after 2026. Instead of repeating this claim as fact, why not be happy every year that Valour FC survives, celebrate that despite a sub optimum stadium situation, poor sporting direction and the lack of serious community buy in, thousands still turn up to games each season and thousands are being spent on maintaining the team. The Fath Brothers did fail in Edmonton, but would you have preferred them to have never tried and FC Edmonton to have never existed? Every Valour home game is a chance for a young kid to walk up the steps, see the pro soccer in the flesh with their own eyes and be inspired, just like you must have been at some point in your life to be this dedicated to a Canadian pro soccer forum. I just recommend that you adjust the tainted lenses that you observe Canadian pro soccer through, "If everywhere you go smells like shit, maybe it's time to check your own shoes."

I propose Ozwin's Law - similar to Godwin's law - Wikipedia but instead of Adolf it's a CHL style Bus League where you don't talk about CPL teams by their names (forge) and use the city instead (Hamilton). One day, in 20+ years, when CPL has 16 teams and CPL 2 kicks off I hope you bring the same energy and enthusiasm to your cause then. All your ideas would suddenly be very relevant. I think Victoria CFL is working in the opposite way in that the Touchdown Pacific game is to ensure all Victoria fans support the BC Lions, and there is never enough grass roots support for a separate Victoria CFL team to compete with the Lions. With Attendance of 30,000 in BC place they definitely loose money with 14,000 in Victoria. Even an expanded Starlight stadium with 20,000 seats for CFL Victoria team wouldn't compete, so they would have to be pretty desperate to expand like that. I think they are only desperate for an extra Eastern franchise.

I think a lot of CPL clubs would happily switch their current travel logistics with 1 hour from Pearson International. It is a very well connected airport. According to this: Population estimates, July 1, by census metropolitan area and census agglomeration, 2021 boundaries (statcan.gc.ca) Barrie metro population as of 2023 is 230,163 up 24,109 (Over 10%) since 2019. Assuming the same rate of growth by 2026 (Team Launch date) that could be 255,000. For comparison: CMA 2023 Population Comment Hamilton (CMA), Ontario 827,679 Forge FC London (CMA), Ontario 586,059 Halifax (CMA), Nova Scotia 498,931 HFX Wanders St. Catharines - Niagara (CMA), Ontario 462,002 Windsor (CMA), Ontario 452,208 Rumoured CPL Expansion Victoria (CMA), British Columbia 426,370 Pacific FC Saskatoon (CMA), Saskatchewan 335,932 Awarded CPL Expansion Regina (CMA), Saskatchewan 260,534 Kelowna (CMA), British Columbia 239,853 Rumoured CPL Expansion Barrie (CMA), Ontario 230,163 Simcoe County Rovers St. John's (CMA), Newfoundland and Labrador 224,838 Moncton (CMA), New Brunswick 168,620 Brantford (CMA), Ontario 161,425 Abbotsford - Mission (CMA), British Columbia 207,438 This is a long way of saying yes you are right Barrie would be on the smallest end of the scale for CMA's to have a CPL team. Dreaming big, if you compare to established European teams Barrie is easily big enough to draw 5,000 a week, so theoretically it is possible, while I accept Canada is obviously not there yet. Finally the 2021 population of Simcoe County excluding Barrie is: 351,929. They could also draw from across the county and Toronto weekenders and Simcoe County Rovers is the perfect branding to do that.

Announcement of a Barrie Ontario CPL Expansion bid likely to occur in early September: Strong mayor power utilized by Nuttall to pause work on waterfront sports field (barrie360.com) "The report also teased "a very big announcement" that will come in a few weeks regarding the Simcoe County Rovers, which currently plays home games at J.C. Massie Field at Georgian College. "It will be a game-changing announcement that means our city will have its only full professional sports team," according to Green's report. "Terms of the deal are being finalized between Rovers FC and the purchaser, a large global sports and entertainment enterprise." The report indicated that an announcement is expected in early September, with the team beginning play in March 2026, just prior to the FIFA World Cup hosted in Canada, the United States and Mexico. The Rovers' men's and women's teams currently play in League1 Ontario, and have three reserve teams playing in League2 Ontario. To that end, Green indicated in his report the club is looking to build a 2,500 seat stadium at the former Barrie Central Collegiate property downtown, in the area of Dunlop Street West and Bradford Street." Link to the full report provided to the Mayor who is now considering its recommendations: https://barrie.legistar.com/View.ashx?M=F&ID=13236676&GUID=E2BAA02D-5C3C-4DA9-8C3A-B9661639C02E My assessment: The report includes a proposed location and size feasibility for a 5,000 seater stadium. I think Greens comment that the Rovers are looking for 2,500 capacity is probably just the minimum size mentioned and is not the official proposed capacity that will be submitted for approval of tax dollars. The start date of March 2026 aligns with what the CPL is hoping for, but would not leave much time for this proposal to be agreed by the tax payers/council/Mayor/ which ever bureaucracy is needed to sign off on it, and then for it to built. It appears the Rovers are about to announce serious investment from "a large global sports and entertainment enterprise", hard to guess who this could be. Maybe Red Bull or a multi club ownership structure such as John Textor? The 'Global' and 'Entertainment' component could be a misnomer, but this suggests a non Canadian entity, which is not a just in the business of soccer. A 5,000 seater brand new stadium in the center of Barrie with big money ownership backing and the well run operations of Simcoe County Rovers, would be an absolute winner in my opinion. Although it is not a huge metro area, by pulling from the surrounding area and capitalizing on the lack of competition and emerging downtown of a growing city, I think a CPL team here would be a success. That is without mentioning the buy in from many former national team players that are heavily involved. Still not an official announcement from the CPL but it is a a really big deal. I like the idea of a League 1 Canada team proving its self as a strong organization, to the point they can take in investment and ascend /expand into the CPL. It would be a great example to follow and might serve a blueprint for Ligue 1 Quebec teams for example.

With the collapsed Saskatoon CPL team, does anyone know why the Geordie Howe Bowl was never considered as a CPL stadium? https://maps.app.goo.gl/XpvtywaLh9J1ZRs57?g_st=com.google.maps.preview.copy 5,000 plastic seated venue newly refurbished with good turf, skyboxes and no track. As long as they can paint the football lines it would be completely in line with current CPL stadiums and wouldn’t require $28m funding. Plus a decently central location with significant parking. Comparing it to the Kelwona apple Bowl, surely it’s worth at least an exhibition game. ‘The Praries invitational, Valour can be the home team.

Great insight thank you, if this rumour does come to pass it seems much more likely it will be Ben Harburg/MSA Capital buying a CPL franchise with a loose connection to Cadiz. Which imo is a much better scenario than a farm/marketing team such as Rayo OKC. Although this is all assuming that Ben Harburg/MSA Capital is a good owner which I assume CPL will be vetting now. Yeah cut Northern Tribune some slack, they do great work that others don't. If this was a critic of a 'The Athletic' sized org then fair, but I am pretty sure NT are like 3 people in their spare time.

Cadiz CF have since 2021 being minority owned by an American firm: US investor plans to take Cádiz CF global: "China is the number one under addressed football market globally" | Off The Pitch "Ben Harburg is managing partner of MSA Capital, a global investment firm with more than $2 billion in assets under management. The US investor has purchased 6.5 per cent of LaLiga club Cádiz CF after an 18-month search for a club. He plans to turn Cádiz into a "global club" by promoting them in markets where they have historically had little presence and attracting international sponsors and partners. Harburg says he will leverage his existing relationships in countries like China, where he is based, to partner with the "next wave" of Chinese companies "going global". Ben Harburg realises it sounds ambitious. Cádiz CF is not, after all, one of the clubs who come to mind when you think of those with a global presence. The LaLiga club from the southwest of Spain have spent most of their 111-year history outside the top flight. Last season’s 12th-place finish – their first season in Primera Division for 14 years – was their joint-best ever." Sounds like Canada could fit the "markets where they have historically had little presence and attracting international sponsors and partners." I don't know if Cadiz fans are happy with their owners, would be a good thing to research.