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Our position is both amazing, and precarious.  I have personally done and said things in the past that have almost completely killed this.  That would have been grossly unfair to everyone.  So I stay mostly silent, and just ensure that we do the one thing no one, at any level anywhere can say shit about.  Show up.  

We are not a club team.  We don't have season tickets, every single game is new.  Heck, it isn't even a given we can hang our banners at a game, or set up flags.  Those things are negotiated on our behalf by Canada Soccer...every single game with the relevant union.  Every single game.
The people in Canada Soccer today are very supportive of us, and this was NOT always the case.  We outlasted pretty much everyone, by simply stubbornly showing up and getting shit done in the stadium.  The only 'political' move I have ever made was to call in a lot of favors to get us more tickets to the USA game in Hamilton.  That worked, but I would not try it again for a decade.   Canada soccer gave us almost 4000 seats to the Jamaica game.  People really  have to stop and really grasp how fucking amazing that is.  While today we are a legal organization (clarification of that in the fall), it really has been nothing more than me and a website for the majority of that time.   The only real agreement in place we have is the Voyageurs Cup.  Everything else is game to game.  There is zero guarantee, should there be a wholesale changeover at Canada Soccer, that we ever have a supporters section again. 

This website was divorced from the Voyageurs because it has at times been completely insane.  Not sure in today's social media world people have the time or inclination to read everything, but there was a time everyone read this site. The desire for vaporizing us for the shit people would read on here was a real thing, many times over. 

We are though in some trouble.  Our base is way too old,  and it is not as easy or obvious how to rectify that when we might not even have a game here till 2023, and only one at that.   While we may ride the high of that qualification run, it masked some real problems for us to draw and fill sections.  I don't think it is clear, but I do feel that problem is there. 

We have literally had more flags in the stadium than our sections have sold tickets for multiple games. So right now, we are not exactly doing the one thing that has kept us alive all this time, and that is a problem.
 

Our position is both amazing, and precarious.  I have personally done and said things in the past that have almost completely killed this.  That would have been grossly unfair to everyone.  So I stay mostly silent, and just ensure that we do the one thing no one, at any level anywhere can say shit about.  Show up.  

We are not a club team.  We don't have season tickets, every single game is new.  Heck, it isn't even a given we can hang our banners at a game, or set up flags.  Those things are negotiated on our behalf by Canada Soccer...every single game with the relevant union.  Every single game.
The people in Canada Soccer today are very supportive of us, and this was NOT always the case.  We outlasted pretty much everyone, by simply stubbornly showing up and getting shit done in the stadium.  The only 'political' move I have ever made was to call in a lot of favors to get us more tickets to the USA game in Hamilton.  That worked, but I would not try it again for a decade.   Canada soccer gave us almost 4000 seats to the Jamaica game.  People really  have to stop and really grasp how fucking amazing that is.  While today we are a legal organization (clarification of that in the fall), it really has been nothing more than me and a website for the majority of that time.   The only real agreement in place we have is the Voyageurs Cup.  Everything else is game to game.  There is zero guarantee, should there be a wholesale changeover at Canada Soccer, that we ever have a supporters section again. 

This website was divorced from the Voyageurs because it has at times been completely insane.  Not sure in today's social media world people have the time or inclination to read everything, but there was a time everyone read this site. The desire for vaporizing us for the shit people would read on here was a real thing, many times over. 

We are though in some trouble.  Our base is way too old,  and it is not as easy or obvious how to rectify that when we might not even have a game here till 2023, and only one at that.   While we may ride the high of that qualification run, it masked some real problems for us to draw and fill sections.  I don't think it is clear, but I do feel that problem is there. 

We have literally had more flags in the stadium than our sections have sold tickets for multiple games. So right now, we are not exactly doing the one thing that has kept us alive all this time, and that is a problem.
 

My point is we don't.  We are in a very precarious position and the one card we have up our sleeve is on the rocks at the moment. There are a lot of legitimate explanations for why we sold so few tickets. 

We cannot continue to block off thousands of seats a stadium and not sell them, while thinking we are in some kind of position of power. 

Our position is both amazing, and precarious.  I have personally done and said things in the past that have almost completely killed this.  That would have been grossly unfair to everyone.  So I stay mostly silent, and just ensure that we do the one thing no one, at any level anywhere can say shit about.  Show up.  

We are not a club team.  We don't have season tickets, every single game is new.  Heck, it isn't even a given we can hang our banners at a game, or set up flags.  Those things are negotiated on our behalf by Canada Soccer...every single game with the relevant union.  Every single game.
The people in Canada Soccer today are very supportive of us, and this was NOT always the case.  We outlasted pretty much everyone, by simply stubbornly showing up and getting shit done in the stadium.  The only 'political' move I have ever made was to call in a lot of favors to get us more tickets to the USA game in Hamilton.  That worked, but I would not try it again for a decade.   Canada soccer gave us almost 4000 seats to the Jamaica game.  People really  have to stop and really grasp how fucking amazing that is.  While today we are a legal organization (clarification of that in the fall), it really has been nothing more than me and a website for the majority of that time.   The only real agreement in place we have is the Voyageurs Cup.  Everything else is game to game.  There is zero guarantee, should there be a wholesale changeover at Canada Soccer, that we ever have a supporters section again. 

This website was divorced from the Voyageurs because it has at times been completely insane.  Not sure in today's social media world people have the time or inclination to read everything, but there was a time everyone read this site. The desire for vaporizing us for the shit people would read on here was a real thing, many times over. 

We are though in some trouble.  Our base is way too old,  and it is not as easy or obvious how to rectify that when we might not even have a game here till 2023, and only one at that.   While we may ride the high of that qualification run, it masked some real problems for us to draw and fill sections.  I don't think it is clear, but I do feel that problem is there. 

We have literally had more flags in the stadium than our sections have sold tickets for multiple games. So right now, we are not exactly doing the one thing that has kept us alive all this time, and that is a problem.
 

Our position is both amazing, and precarious.  I have personally done and said things in the past that have almost completely killed this.  That would have been grossly unfair to everyone.  So I stay mostly silent, and just ensure that we do the one thing no one, at any level anywhere can say shit about.  Show up.  

We are not a club team.  We don't have season tickets, every single game is new.  Heck, it isn't even a given we can hang our banners at a game, or set up flags.  Those things are negotiated on our behalf by Canada Soccer...every single game with the relevant union.  Every single game.
The people in Canada Soccer today are very supportive of us, and this was NOT always the case.  We outlasted pretty much everyone, by simply stubbornly showing up and getting shit done in the stadium.  The only 'political' move I have ever made was to call in a lot of favors to get us more tickets to the USA game in Hamilton.  That worked, but I would not try it again for a decade.   Canada soccer gave us almost 4000 seats to the Jamaica game.  People really  have to stop and really grasp how fucking amazing that is.  While today we are a legal organization (clarification of that in the fall), it really has been nothing more than me and a website for the majority of that time.   The only real agreement in place we have is the Voyageurs Cup.  Everything else is game to game.  There is zero guarantee, should there be a wholesale changeover at Canada Soccer, that we ever have a supporters section again. 

This website was divorced from the Voyageurs because it has at times been completely insane.  Not sure in today's social media world people have the time or inclination to read everything, but there was a time everyone read this site. The desire for vaporizing us for the shit people would read on here was a real thing, many times over. 

We are though in some trouble.  Our base is way too old,  and it is not as easy or obvious how to rectify that when we might not even have a game here till 2023, and only one at that.   While we may ride the high of that qualification run, it masked some real problems for us to draw and fill sections.  I don't think it is clear, but I do feel that problem is there. 

We have literally had more flags in the stadium than our sections have sold tickets for multiple games. So right now, we are not exactly doing the one thing that has kept us alive all this time, and that is a problem.
 

Our position is both amazing, and precarious.  I have personally done and said things in the past that have almost completely killed this.  That would have been grossly unfair to everyone.  So I stay mostly silent, and just ensure that we do the one thing no one, at any level anywhere can say shit about.  Show up.  

We are not a club team.  We don't have season tickets, every single game is new.  Heck, it isn't even a given we can hang our banners at a game, or set up flags.  Those things are negotiated on our behalf by Canada Soccer...every single game with the relevant union.  Every single game.
The people in Canada Soccer today are very supportive of us, and this was NOT always the case.  We outlasted pretty much everyone, by simply stubbornly showing up and getting shit done in the stadium.  The only 'political' move I have ever made was to call in a lot of favors to get us more tickets to the USA game in Hamilton.  That worked, but I would not try it again for a decade.   Canada soccer gave us almost 4000 seats to the Jamaica game.  People really  have to stop and really grasp how fucking amazing that is.  While today we are a legal organization (clarification of that in the fall), it really has been nothing more than me and a website for the majority of that time.   The only real agreement in place we have is the Voyageurs Cup.  Everything else is game to game.  There is zero guarantee, should there be a wholesale changeover at Canada Soccer, that we ever have a supporters section again. 

This website was divorced from the Voyageurs because it has at times been completely insane.  Not sure in today's social media world people have the time or inclination to read everything, but there was a time everyone read this site. The desire for vaporizing us for the shit people would read on here was a real thing, many times over. 

We are though in some trouble.  Our base is way too old,  and it is not as easy or obvious how to rectify that when we might not even have a game here till 2023, and only one at that.   While we may ride the high of that qualification run, it masked some real problems for us to draw and fill sections.  I don't think it is clear, but I do feel that problem is there. 

We have literally had more flags in the stadium than our sections have sold tickets for multiple games. So right now, we are not exactly doing the one thing that has kept us alive all this time, and that is a problem.
 

Our position is both amazing, and precarious.  I have personally done and said things in the past that have almost completely killed this.  That would have been grossly unfair to everyone.  So I stay mostly silent, and just ensure that we do the one thing no one, at any level anywhere can say shit about.  Show up.  

We are not a club team.  We don't have season tickets, every single game is new.  Heck, it isn't even a given we can hang our banners at a game, or set up flags.  Those things are negotiated on our behalf by Canada Soccer...every single game with the relevant union.  Every single game.
The people in Canada Soccer today are very supportive of us, and this was NOT always the case.  We outlasted pretty much everyone, by simply stubbornly showing up and getting shit done in the stadium.  The only 'political' move I have ever made was to call in a lot of favors to get us more tickets to the USA game in Hamilton.  That worked, but I would not try it again for a decade.   Canada soccer gave us almost 4000 seats to the Jamaica game.  People really  have to stop and really grasp how fucking amazing that is.  While today we are a legal organization (clarification of that in the fall), it really has been nothing more than me and a website for the majority of that time.   The only real agreement in place we have is the Voyageurs Cup.  Everything else is game to game.  There is zero guarantee, should there be a wholesale changeover at Canada Soccer, that we ever have a supporters section again. 

This website was divorced from the Voyageurs because it has at times been completely insane.  Not sure in today's social media world people have the time or inclination to read everything, but there was a time everyone read this site. The desire for vaporizing us for the shit people would read on here was a real thing, many times over. 

We are though in some trouble.  Our base is way too old,  and it is not as easy or obvious how to rectify that when we might not even have a game here till 2023, and only one at that.   While we may ride the high of that qualification run, it masked some real problems for us to draw and fill sections.  I don't think it is clear, but I do feel that problem is there. 

We have literally had more flags in the stadium than our sections have sold tickets for multiple games. So right now, we are not exactly doing the one thing that has kept us alive all this time, and that is a problem.
 

The problem really is that we now have a proper working relationship with the CSA, largely thanks to specific individuals here, for things like ticketing, the supporter section, tifos and flags, pre and post-game. This is not gratuitous and if it were to falter we'd regret it. What just happened with our sections during qualifying was amazing. 
I'm very politically minded and often think about protests. We did them years ago, eg regarding Dale Mitchell, and they actually worked. But I'm not sure that adversarial role is tenable for certain internal matters. 
I also was involved in us sending a letter of condolence, as a group, in at least one case (Feher dying on the pitch for Benfica). I'd like us to see that latter mode back,where we could congratulate someone, express condolences, have a human face. We need to find some areas where the common voice returns. I'd have protested the Panama cancellation from the strict perspective of the fans being mistreated on a game day. I'd protest MLS roster rules as they discriminate Canadians. I'd make statements to ensure the original spirit of the Voyageurs Cup is always respected (I'm thankful they played that delayed final, for example). If some trash were to go down with supporters (heavy handed security, which used to be common fare for us),the same.
As Jamie is suggesting, the new legal status of the VS may see more of this happening. Also: there is dialogue with the CSA we don't see. It's not transparent perhaps, so not a fully representative voice, but it's there. 
But it is a bit of a messy thing to get into. Some supporter groups have become mired in causes and have ended up screwing up. And hurting themselves. Our priority interests have to come first. 

Our position is both amazing, and precarious.  I have personally done and said things in the past that have almost completely killed this.  That would have been grossly unfair to everyone.  So I stay mostly silent, and just ensure that we do the one thing no one, at any level anywhere can say shit about.  Show up.  

We are not a club team.  We don't have season tickets, every single game is new.  Heck, it isn't even a given we can hang our banners at a game, or set up flags.  Those things are negotiated on our behalf by Canada Soccer...every single game with the relevant union.  Every single game.
The people in Canada Soccer today are very supportive of us, and this was NOT always the case.  We outlasted pretty much everyone, by simply stubbornly showing up and getting shit done in the stadium.  The only 'political' move I have ever made was to call in a lot of favors to get us more tickets to the USA game in Hamilton.  That worked, but I would not try it again for a decade.   Canada soccer gave us almost 4000 seats to the Jamaica game.  People really  have to stop and really grasp how fucking amazing that is.  While today we are a legal organization (clarification of that in the fall), it really has been nothing more than me and a website for the majority of that time.   The only real agreement in place we have is the Voyageurs Cup.  Everything else is game to game.  There is zero guarantee, should there be a wholesale changeover at Canada Soccer, that we ever have a supporters section again. 

This website was divorced from the Voyageurs because it has at times been completely insane.  Not sure in today's social media world people have the time or inclination to read everything, but there was a time everyone read this site. The desire for vaporizing us for the shit people would read on here was a real thing, many times over. 

We are though in some trouble.  Our base is way too old,  and it is not as easy or obvious how to rectify that when we might not even have a game here till 2023, and only one at that.   While we may ride the high of that qualification run, it masked some real problems for us to draw and fill sections.  I don't think it is clear, but I do feel that problem is there. 

We have literally had more flags in the stadium than our sections have sold tickets for multiple games. So right now, we are not exactly doing the one thing that has kept us alive all this time, and that is a problem.
 

100% all downhill.
I just don't think we should be speaking for you or anyone on anything. 

Once a supporters group goes political, it is dead. 
 

100% all downhill.
I just don't think we should be speaking for you or anyone on anything. 

Once a supporters group goes political, it is dead. 
 

100% all downhill.
I just don't think we should be speaking for you or anyone on anything. 

Once a supporters group goes political, it is dead. 
 

100% all downhill.
I just don't think we should be speaking for you or anyone on anything. 

Once a supporters group goes political, it is dead. 
 

They do, and I have watched those groups pay a hefty toll for it, if not outright die as a result. 

We don't tell people what they can't say, and we don't speak for them either. 

This will likely change after the AGM/voting.  It seems most organizations simply can't avoid this kind of capture that subordinates their original mission to external politics.  This topic seems different, but in reality any given page of posts tells you we don't know anything. 

They do, and I have watched those groups pay a hefty toll for it, if not outright die as a result. 

We don't tell people what they can't say, and we don't speak for them either. 

This will likely change after the AGM/voting.  It seems most organizations simply can't avoid this kind of capture that subordinates their original mission to external politics.  This topic seems different, but in reality any given page of posts tells you we don't know anything. 

100% all downhill.
I just don't think we should be speaking for you or anyone on anything. 

Once a supporters group goes political, it is dead. 
 

100% all downhill.
I just don't think we should be speaking for you or anyone on anything. 

Once a supporters group goes political, it is dead. 
 

100% all downhill.
I just don't think we should be speaking for you or anyone on anything. 

Once a supporters group goes political, it is dead. 
 

100% all downhill.
I just don't think we should be speaking for you or anyone on anything. 

Once a supporters group goes political, it is dead. 
 

100% all downhill.
I just don't think we should be speaking for you or anyone on anything. 

Once a supporters group goes political, it is dead. 
 

100% all downhill.
I just don't think we should be speaking for you or anyone on anything. 

Once a supporters group goes political, it is dead. 
 

I think any strong sentiment one way or the other and we will be back to individual Vs buying as many tickets as possible in one section and trying to re-sell them at home games in order to create some atmosphere.  Forget about getting the end at BMO or presale codes.
The Voyageurs' sections at all the WCQ games with all the flags and everything going on didn't all happen by themselves.
There is no win for us by saying anything remotely partisan on this issue.  Just negatives.

We are going to play Iran and Panama in Belarus.

We are going to play Iran and Panama in Belarus.