Match Thread: Voyageurs Cup - Semi-Finals - Leg 1 - Forge v Toronto FC - July 10, 2024

[Kingston]

Congratulations to Forge on a well earned win.  A disciplined squad defeats a disorganized bunch of individually more talented players.

I'm also very impressed with the attendance.  Given the weather and the ticket prices, I thought for sure this would be a smaller crowd.  Well done, Forge fans!

As a TFC fan, I'm disappointed this game was even a question, let alone a loss.  No way should a team with TFC's resources have trouble dispatching a CPL side.  For a neutral, this is what makes the Canadian Championship so fun!  And obviously Forge fans must be delighted.

I still predict TFC takes the series on the return leg, especially as they have a month to get their act together.  But Forge has played well enough that that isn't a sure thing.

[Cicero]

2 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Only saw the highlights but suspect he may have still been seething about Bernadeschi's behaviour on the first Forge goal. Tracking back vigorously to try to recover possession after his pass was blocked by Badibanga appeared to be viewed as beneath him.

I don't think so, Bernardeschi actually seemed like he cared. Wasn't that effective, but work rate was good overall. Some of the others on the other hand... Mabika, why is he on the team? A giant pylon. Their entire back line has been suspect for three years now. Thompson...not good, and roll the bloody shorts down, you're not good enough to be making Ronaldo-like fashion statements. For whatever reason, TFC cannot develop talent, none of their young players ever looks good until they leave. Insigne, just not quick, has the skill, but couldn't even expose Duncan. Dom on the other hand...some concerning moments. Insigne's probably constantly worried about reinjuring himself.  Owusu...again, not good enough. TFC, just a total tire-fire personnel-wise. 

[jordan]

1 hour ago, Kingston said:

Congratulations to Forge on a well earned win.  A disciplined squad defeats a disorganized bunch of individually more talented players.

I'm also very impressed with the attendance.  Given the weather and the ticket prices, I thought for sure this would be a smaller crowd.  Well done, Forge fans!

As a TFC fan, I'm disappointed this game was even a question, let alone a loss.  No way should a team with TFC's resources have trouble dispatching a CPL side.  For a neutral, this is what makes the Canadian Championship so fun!  And obviously Forge fans must be delighted.

I still predict TFC takes the series on the return leg, especially as they have a month to get their act together.  But Forge has played well enough that that isn't a sure thing.

What was the attendance? Maybe I missed it.

[Kingston]

26 minutes ago, jordan said:

What was the attendance? Maybe I missed it.

11 341

At an average of, say, $50 per ticket, Forge just covered half their annual player payroll.

Edited July 11 by Kingston

[Unnamed Trialist]

6 hours ago, Kingston said:

11 341

At an average of, say, $50 per ticket, Forge just covered half their annual player payroll.

Considering these CPL teams will get to fairly regularly see MLS teams, that is quite good. At a certain point you could say, yeah, well we've seen those MLS sides, the novelty has worn off.

Our problem is that few teams in the entire continent would be draws for a CPL team. The Mexican powerhouses can draw their own, but not Canadian fans. Then of the US MLS teams, maybe only a few, if they have stars, could attract a good attendance. Which is too bad. If you were in League 2 England and pretty well any EPL club came, excepting maybe some of the lesser storied (Brentford, Bournemouth), you'd go and it'd be packed. I'd go. Same as in any lower tier in Europe, you get a top flight team and for most, it's a top draw. I went to see a modest 4th team against Cadiz in the Spanish Cup last fall and it sold out, and maybe only a fifth were Cadiz fans. And that is not the biggest team, but it's a historical team and in La Liga. We don't have those variations in Canada, the CPL teams are lucky to get a good attendance for a team they will likely see many times over the next years.

[Macksam]

On 7/10/2024 at 7:47 PM, anthony7 said:

Kyle ‘Bust’ Bekker is one of the worst players in TFC history. Top 3 for sure. Guy was marketed as some great white hope for TFC in 2013.

Jacob Peterson, Ty Harden and Dan Gargan for guys that got consistent playing time.

[Kingston]

15 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Considering these CPL teams will get to fairly regularly see MLS teams, that is quite good. At a certain point you could say, yeah, well we've seen those MLS sides, the novelty has worn off.

Our problem is that few teams in the entire continent would be draws for a CPL team. The Mexican powerhouses can draw their own, but not Canadian fans. Then of the US MLS teams, maybe only a few, if they have stars, could attract a good attendance. Which is too bad. If you were in League 2 England and pretty well any EPL club came, excepting maybe some of the lesser storied (Brentford, Bournemouth), you'd go and it'd be packed. I'd go. Same as in any lower tier in Europe, you get a top flight team and for most, it's a top draw. I went to see a modest 4th team against Cadiz in the Spanish Cup last fall and it sold out, and maybe only a fifth were Cadiz fans. And that is not the biggest team, but it's a historical team and in La Liga. We don't have those variations in Canada, the CPL teams are lucky to get a good attendance for a team they will likely see many times over the next years.

I understand where you're going with this but I don't think you're correct.  An important point to remember is that, while MLS and CPL teams will meet regularly in the Canadian Championship, the identities of the teams (especially the CPL teams) will vary.  This year, for example, only three of the eight CPL teams faced MLS competition.  Ditto the year before.  So a given CPL team might only face an MLS team once every few years.  Even then, they might not host that game.  I don't think we need to worry about the novelty wearing off any time soon.

[Cicero]

2 hours ago, Macksam said:

Kyle ‘Bust’ Bekker is one of the worst players in TFC history. Top 3 for sure. Guy was marketed as some great white hope for TFC in 2013.Jacob Peterson, Ty Harden and Dan Gargan for guys that got consistent playing time.

The real problem is that he played for TFC, the black hole of young player development. He never would have been a star, but there's no reason he couldn't have had a decent career as a second option mid on many MLS teams. One of many cases-in-point, Griffin Dorsey. Object of ridicule at TFC, serviceable RB option at Dynamo with 107 appearances and 10 goals.

Bekker's other problem was the idiotic rules in MLS about Canadians being 'internationals'. 

[Kingston]

1 hour ago, Cicero said:

The real problem is that he played for TFC, the black hole of young player development. He never would have been a star, but there's no reason he couldn't have had a decent career as a second option mid on many MLS teams.

He also failed to catch on in Dallas and in Montreal.  TFC has development problems but in Bekker's case I don't think you can just pin it on that.

[Cicero]

1 hour ago, Kingston said:

He also failed to catch on in Dallas and in Montreal.  TFC has development problems but in Bekker's case I don't think you can just pin it on that.

He was replaced essentially by a very young Marky Delgado, a player from California that Greg Vanney had coached at Chivas and thus had history with. Toronto had just brought in a bunch of expensive guys, and cheapo FC Dallas probably had expiring GAM or TAM, so took a flyer on Bekker, but already had a young Kellyn Acosta and Ryan Hollingshead at mid, plus a dp CM and two other experienced internationals, so that situation was never likely to work out for him. He played some in Montreal, but was released and the following year the Canadian mids on Montreal were: Bernier, Tabla, Goyette, Piette, Choiniere, and Shome. One of those is not like the others, and why they thought Shome was a better choice than Bekker, I'm not sure, but Shome had gone to Concordia, so maybe he spoke French. But of those two, who would you take at this point?

Point being, for secondary players, they have to be in the right situation. If they don't find one, their career may never take off. Maybe there are other reasons, maybe he's a difficult guy, I have no idea, but many players have had decent MLS careers that were no better than Bekker. I'm sure being hyped by perpetual losers TFC didn't help his case.

Edited July 12 by Cicero

[anthony7]

5 hours ago, Macksam said:

Jacob Peterson, Ty Harden and Dan Gargan for guys that got consistent playing time.

Nope, those 3 don’t get in. It would be Terrence Boyd, Kyle Bekker & Insigne holds a spot right now based on that crazy salary alone.

At least those 3 guys were somewhat competent.

[narduch]

Mailula probably has a good case for worst TFC player ever.

Gallardo would be another one

[anthony7]

9 hours ago, Cicero said:

The real problem is that he played for TFC, the black hole of young player development. He never would have been a star, but there's no reason he couldn't have had a decent career as a second option mid on many MLS teams. One of many cases-in-point, Griffin Dorsey. Object of ridicule at TFC, serviceable RB option at Dynamo with 107 appearances and 10 goals.

Bekker's other problem was the idiotic rules in MLS about Canadians being 'internationals'. 

Please don’t make any excuses for this bust. I watched every game this bust featured in between 2013-2014 because I couldn’t understand the hype. He got all the opportunities. TFC insisted on playing there great white hope even though he was complete ass. Guy ended his TFC tenure with 0 Goals & 0 Assists. Was never progressive. All his passes were sideways & backwards. There was a WTR article that even had him as #1 in a top 10 list of TFC's worst ever signings. My friend was at a game against Philly in 2014 and he told me the TFC fans were literally shitting on him throughout the game. I’ll never forget when Vanney played him against a strong LA side near the end of 2014 to see what the hype was. I always compare 3rd overall pick Bekker to a fellow former TFC midfielder & 4th overall pick in Luis Silva. Silva played in a TFC side which Danny Koevermans proclaimed was the worst in the world. Guy still managed 5 goals and 5 assists for his rookie season in 2012. Sorry, but no excuses for Kyle ‘Bust’ Bekker. When you’re a blonde haired, blue eyed, white boy from Oakville, opportunities are given to you by default.

Edited July 12 by anthony7

[Bison44]

Jeepers, did the whole TFC team back then have a go at your sister???  Are you secretly marky Delgado???  MARKY ANTONIO DELGADO??????  You had to pick Anthony7 because anthony 8 was already gone!!!!!!    HOLY SHIT.....its like I just solved the agatha cristie mystery.  

[Stanley]

22 hours ago, Bison44 said:

Jeepers, did the whole TFC team back then have a go at your sister???  Are you secretly marky Delgado???  MARKY ANTONIO DELGADO??????  You had to pick Anthony7 because anthony 8 was already gone!!!!!!    HOLY SHIT.....its like I just solved the agatha cristie mystery.  

If they're both racist then you have the same guy!

[Kingston]

On 7/12/2024 at 6:58 PM, Bison44 said:

....its like I just solved the agatha cristie mystery.  

If Agatha Christie wrote pop up books where the main character just repeated himself on each page. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

This recent Athletic article says Forge saw a drone being flown over their training before this first leg vs TFC. Forge didn't officially denounce it. 

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5719108/2024/08/24/canada-drone-herdman-olympics-investigation/

If that's a recent case of Herdman doing that in benefit of TFC, and considering when they played, before the Olympics, and where (easy access for TFC staff) should the CSA take corresponding action if they can demonstrate it? 

It would seem forfeiting the semis vs Forge would be in line with the sort of sanctioning we'd be looking at.

Edited August 25 by Unnamed Trialist

[SpursFlu]

Forge supporters feel free to make a Drone Herdman tifo

[shorty]

On 8/25/2024 at 1:33 PM, SpursFlu said:

Forge supporters feel free to make a Drone Herdman tifo

Or fly your drone tifo in on drones. 

[ahmedou]

On 8/25/2024 at 4:33 PM, SpursFlu said:

Forge supporters feel free to make a Drone Herdman tifo

Tifo: No Air Drone Herdman, No Party

[SpursFlu]

Maybe Herdman with remote control, board shorts, Oakleys, Guy Ferriera style hair and it could say "You're in the Drone Zone"

Edited August 27 by SpursFlu