Copa America: Canada vs Venezuela - Friday, July 5th - 9pm Eastern / 6pm Pacific - Arlington, Texas

[narduch]

Any idea why Venezuela didn't take Josef Martinez?

Does their manager just consider him washed up?

[InglewoodJack]

Just now, narduch said:

Any idea why Venezuela didn't take Josef Martinez?

Does their manager just consider him washed up?

Injured until recently, and also he looks bad. 

[shorty]

35 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

And maybe, too, because I have not seen Canada’s men win a penalty round, not in recent memory. 

But I knew what you meant

[Obinna]

11 minutes ago, narduch said:

Any idea why Venezuela didn't take Josef Martinez?

Does their manager just consider him washed up?

There was a time I watched every Venezuela match for like 3 years. That was a decade ago and I don't follow them anymore, and just a few players remain from that group, like Rincon and Rondon. Those are the only ones I recognize.  

On Josef Martinez, I would guess that he's just not preferred anymore. A quick search shows their current crop is basically the old-head Rondon, who's dominating Liga MX, surrounded by some younger guys at some relatively modest clubs. The oldest of them is 28 year old Cadiz, who scored 15 goals in Portugal for mid-table Famalicão. 

Again, you see Famalicão and it doesn't really strike fear in you, but you look closer and he's scored a bunch of top flight goals, so maybe a dangerous player who shouldn't be slept on, for example.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

1 hour ago, Joe MacCarthy said:

I would say for more than a decade we were getting beat by Central American teams with mostly domestic league players

Not exactly sure what you saying.

For most of that time, we would have had  less top league players than we do now. If I am remembering correctly.

But not sure how that applies to current situation of probably valuing a player too much if they are in a top league. Maybe to the detriment of other evaluations.

[Joe MacCarthy]

36 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

For most of that time, we would have had  less top league players than we do now. If I am remembering correctly.

I'm getting off topic but there was a discussion a few years ago that we didn't necessarily have players that were playing at a higher level than we did a little less than 20 years ago.

Of course that has really changed in the time since.

Part of my lament was that we had the talent but weren't doing all the little things that needed to be done to be successful.  That's why I was so positive Herdman would be a success when most weren't.  I knew he would take care of those little things.

Here is a post from that thread, it's a fun thread, check it out

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

8 minutes ago, Joe MacCarthy said:

I'm getting off topic but there was a discussion a few years ago that we didn't necessarily have players that were playing at a higher level than we did a little less than 20 years ago.

Of course that has really changed in the time since.

Part of my lament was that we had the talent but weren't doing all the little things that needed to be done to be successful.  That's why I was so positive Herdman would be a success when most weren't.  I knew he would take care of those little things.

Here is a post from that thread, it's a fun thread, check it out

Makes sense and thanks for the future read. 

Edited Wednesday at 06:39 PM by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[Joe MacCarthy]

Just now, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

Makes sense and thanks for the future read. 

Actually as I go through it, it needs some context.  Not all those players were at their best at the same time so I don't want the post I linked to, to be misleading.  You can read the discussion around it

[Joe MacCarthy]

 

[Neil R.]

We'll probably end up with a CONMEBOL referee, but I wouldn't mind seeing how the Italian referee handled things in our match. The 2 group stage matches they gave him were both in Texas, so I wonder if he's been stationed there for the tournament and might get one of the first two quarter-finals since they're both in Texas.

[GasPed]

6 hours ago, Obinna said:

I think we're in for a tough match, but perhaps a very open match. I don't think they'll be as cagey as Peru or Chile. I think they'll back themselves to score goals and take the game to us. I think we'll do the same.  

I'm certainly not a Venezuela expert at all, and in fact the only game I've watched of theirs was their match against Mexico.  But from what I saw, I think it's more of the same that we saw from Peru and Chile.  Swarming, physical challenges, plenty of dark arts, but perhaps with a bit more talent and offensive flair.  Venezuela is not a big team, but they were very quick and they were relentless in trying to win balls.  Rondon and Soteldo were the danger men up front, and they were a handful for Mexico.

That said, I actually think Mexico could've and probably should've won that game or at least gotten a result.  They had the run of play and more chances; Venezuela was also vulnerable on direct over-the-top counters but Mexico couldn't capitalize.  I feel like our pace should give us even more opportunities.

But the bottomline I think will be continued discipline on our part, defensive structure, and using our pace to exploit their backline.  If we can do this, we have a decent shot at this I think hope.  My synopsis from watching all of one game.  😉

Edited Wednesday at 11:01 PM by GasPed

[dyslexic nam]

19 minutes ago, GasPed said:

I'm certainly not a Venezuela expert at all, and in fact the only game I've watched of theirs was their match against Mexico.  But from what I saw, I think it's more of the same that we saw from Peru and Chile.  Swarming, physical challenges, plenty of dark arts, but perhaps with a bit more talent and offensive flair.  Venezuela is not a big team, but they were very quick and they were relentless in trying to win balls.  Rondon and Soteldo were the danger men up front, and they were a handful for Mexico.

That said, I actually think Mexico could've and probably should've won that game or at least gotten a result.  They had the run of play and more chances; Venezuela was also vulnerable on direct over-the-top counters but Mexico couldn't capitalize.  I feel like our pace should give us even more opportunities.

But the bottomline I think will be continued discipline on our part, defensive structure, and using our pace to exploit their backline.  If we can do this, we have a decent shot at this I think hope.  My synopsis from watching all of one game.  😉

It is that relentless swarming that has most impressed me with a few of the SA teams this tournament.  Tactically it is a full court press the whole time - and if you are fit enough to sustain it, it can be a bit terrifying.  Never a moment on the ball, always forced into making quick plays, and inevitably turning it over more than you want.  We don’t really have the high tempo one-touch passing and sophisticated off the ball movement to pass through it consistently so it is pretty effective.  

[An Observer]

16 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

It is that relentless swarming that has most impressed me with a few of the SA teams this tournament.  Tactically it is a full court press the whole time - and if you are fit enough to sustain it, it can be a bit terrifying.  Never a moment on the ball, always forced into making quick plays, and inevitably turning it over more than you want.  We don’t really have the high tempo one-touch passing and sophisticated off the ball movement to pass through it consistently so it is pretty effective.  

That’s true to an extent but if we break the press, we have the speed and quality to punish teams.  We also can press when we want. 

As this is indoor, I suspect this will be played at a much higher tempo and I personally think that benefits is more than the conditions we faced against Peru (and to a lesser extent Chile). Anyway, let’s see.

 

 

[Lurker]

Wilton Sampaio (Brazil) is listed as the ref.  He did the Peru-Chile game and no other it seems.

[Kadenge]

Seems like Marsch has focused more on defence, both in terms of where he is playing some players and how they are playing. Davies & David for starters. Phonz at LB  is now very selective as to when he attacks down the flank and Liam at left mid is rarely taking on players 1v1, cutting in on goal and using his right foot but rather deferring  to Davies and then providing cover. David is playing much deeper than normal and further from goal. Larin, Kone and Tajon not being in form have also impacted our attack and the low number of scoring opportunities/ shots at goal. We need a win, so does anyone feel Marsch will make changes?

[JBR]

34 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

Seems like Marsch has focused more on defence, both in terms of where he is playing some players and how they are playing. Davies & David for starters. Phonz at LB  is now very selective as to when he attacks down the flank and Liam at left mid is rarely taking on players 1v1, cutting in on goal and using his right foot but rather deferring  to Davies and then providing cover. David is playing much deeper than normal and further from goal. Larin, Kone and Tajon not being in form have also impacted our attack and the low number of scoring opportunities/ shots at goal. We need a win, so does anyone feel Marsch will make changes?

I'm hoping JRR is an option for some offence. He seems so far down the depth chart but that's who i would choose to mix it up if we needed something late. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 hour ago, Lurker said:

Wilton Sampaio (Brazil) is listed as the ref.  He did the Peru-Chile game and no other it seems.

They say he had to spend 5 days in isolated therapy after doing that one.

[Joe MacCarthy]

 

[Obinna]

3 hours ago, Kadenge said:

Seems like Marsch has focused more on defence, both in terms of where he is playing some players and how they are playing. Davies & David for starters. Phonz at LB  is now very selective as to when he attacks down the flank and Liam at left mid is rarely taking on players 1v1, cutting in on goal and using his right foot but rather deferring  to Davies and then providing cover. David is playing much deeper than normal and further from goal. Larin, Kone and Tajon not being in form have also impacted our attack and the low number of scoring opportunities/ shots at goal. We need a win, so does anyone feel Marsch will make changes?

I think we will do what has worked without making any big changes to our approach. At the end of the day, it's a game of soccer and spaces will open up and opportunities present themselves. I don't think we need to change things up to get the goals. Do what has worked and then finish our chances.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

3 hours ago, Kadenge said:

Seems like Marsch has focused more on defence, both in terms of where he is playing some players and how they are playing. Davies & David for starters. Phonz at LB  is now very selective as to when he attacks down the flank and Liam at left mid is rarely taking on players 1v1, cutting in on goal and using his right foot but rather deferring  to Davies and then providing cover. David is playing much deeper than normal and further from goal. Larin, Kone and Tajon not being in form have also impacted our attack and the low number of scoring opportunities/ shots at goal. We need a win, so does anyone feel Marsch will make changes?

He said in the presser that the focus in tournament football would be continuing to keep it tight. A little surprising but got us where we are. 

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

Interesting short little break down on us by a Venezuelan journalist. 

 

[Unnamed Trialist]

Seems we can expect to have the ball for some periods despite their insistent press. 

Another thing those tweets suggest is we're weaker in the attacking mid press, if I understood correctly. It's true we can get played through with certain ease.

Shaping up, interestingly, as a match for Kone to have a big game, because if that's the case we might solve some issues they identify. Kone, Staq and maybe even David dropped back a bit. 

Funny how I've resisted the idea we're playing a 4-4-2 all tournament.

[nolando]

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/articles/cd1d6m1z4mno

[TGAA_Star]

Argentina 🇦🇷 vs Ecuador 🇪🇨 tonight at 9pm ET Copa America quarter final 

[CanadaFan123]

I gotta say, I’m loving the talk that we’re underdogs and placing all this pressure on a side that really has never been considered favourites in Venezuela. It’s totally unwarranted IMO but we’ll take it all day. 
 

I mean, look at our players, their club levels and what we’ve achieved as a NT with this core. If anything, our guys are probably offended looking over at their squad and being considered underdogs. 

Edited Thursday at 12:38 PM by CanadaFan123