Copa America: Canada vs Venezuela - Friday, July 5th - 9pm Eastern / 6pm Pacific - Arlington, Texas

[Unnamed Trialist]

4 hours ago, saladroit said:

as time goes on, i think i'm preferring the frenetic chaos pace of copa america over the staring contest style of the euros

A little bit of both, maybe. Euros is very polished and neat, it is looking more and more like the higher level women's football, it is automated and book-learnt. Few players play out of the box, there is very little spark, then you end up responding to the younger guys like Musiala and Yamal because they are sparky and young. But most of the rest of the football is excellent, on paper, but a bit dry.

Then Copa is wilder, at the limit, if you are studious of the game or a tactician it could be maddening. The reffing is far less consistent, though not necessarily decisive, partially because these matches are much harder to ref and there is a bias from Conmebol. The players are chippier, there is more tactical fouling, the pace can be nuts, and there are more errors, players seem sloppier. 

I like somewhere in between, I'd love for some of these Euro teams to have a couple players come out like crazies, and especially the big stars. Mbappe, if he's closed down, goes on sleep mode. If you had to say who the best player in Euros has been, you'd pick a guy based on objective reason, but not on bursts of talent breaking a game apart.

Being someone who knows the Guardiola way better than most year, because I watched him play and coach in the Barça academy then the first team, I know perfectly well the defects. You can see the England team repeating Guardiola-type defects, which is what Barça does post Guardiola at times too. The worst, is that possession is so sacrosanct it ends up being mannered, so it is not a style, it is a mannerism. It is a copy of a style, not an expression of a style. One of the first things Guardiola did at Barça was purge players like Eto'o, real stallions with fire and passion, because he could not fit him into his system. Deco too. Guys who were idiosyncratic but added intangibles. Odd, because Cruyff was not like that, so Guardiola betrayed Cruyff, who brought in Stoichkov who was demented and had hot blood plus passion to win, or Romario, who was another very odd talent. Mix the nutty talent with the staid talent, and find a system it can all fit into, and that is the kind of football worth watching. 

Edited July 6 by Unnamed Trialist

[decma]

2 hours ago, h coach said:

Ante Jazic

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ante_Jazić

Also Alan Spink.

https://canadasoccer.com/profile/?id=3032&teamId=2076

 

[DrunkOffPunch]

Congrats guys, we’ll deserved. The better team won.

[Vasi]

Have the tv numbers come out for this game yet? 

[gigi riva]

When will we know what the TV numbers are 

[gigi riva]

10 hours ago, Jack1997 said:

The guy in the habs jersey😭

Love the guy with the Habs jersey lol

[gigi riva]

Just a quick question  How much extra cash are we getting for making it to the semi finals

[Unnamed Trialist]

2 minutes ago, gigi riva said:

Just a quick question  How much extra cash are we getting for making it to the semi finals

2 million to participate.

Then there's a budget of 40 million US in prizes, divided this way:

If you make quarter finals, you get 2 million US more.

If you get past quarter finals, the 4th place team gets 4 million more, 3rd get 5 million more, the loser of the final gets 7 million, and the winner gets 16 million. 

So Canada has already collected 2 + a minimum of 4 more, 6 million US. 

Of course we are eagerly awaiting Rick Westhead's explanation of how this is terrible news for Canadian soccer finances.

[Unnamed Trialist]

The Spanish press has been pretty unanimous that we outplayed Venezuela, should have put it away earlier, that the Rondón goal was great, but that we deserved to win even in penalties. In Marca this article is entitled "Canada is Not a Lottery", referring to how going to penalties is like playing the lottery, a typical Spanish expression.

https://www.marca.com/futbol/copa-america/cronica/2024/07/06/66889386e2704e87838b4586.html

"The very poorly termed penalty lottery went to Canada. It wasn't their turn, they earned it. They deserved it throughout the night and also in the shootout, where they put an end to a Venezuela that had just won the three games in the group stage and that suffered an upset that it did not expect at perhaps the best moment in its history. Maxime Crépeau, who had made a mistake in Rondón's tying goal, saved a penalty, touched another to send it to the post and celebrated one that went wide. The rounds are not won by luck, they are conquered by their own merits.

Jesse Marsch's Canada appears by surprise in the semifinals of a Copa América where they also played the debut match with Argentina, which will also be its rival in the early hours of Tuesday to Wednesday in Spain. It will be one of those good 'replays'. The Canadians already sent out a warning in the inaugural match. They are a very serious team, not a lottery. They are going to arrive at 'their' World Cup more than prepared.

Venezuela tried to find new heights and did not find them, by returning to the semifinals 13 years after the last time. Canada showed up, competing as properly qualified teams are asked to do. La Vinotinto came out nervous and the player who celebrated that was Jacob Shaffelburg, who drove everyone who met him crazy. He scored the first goal and created everything he wanted and more. Accompanied by Jonathan David, who only needed to finish in a one-on-one matchup. Canada attacked with arrows and went straight for the neck. By surprise.

The match had a fast pace, but it was difficult for Venezuela to take it all in. They were not better than Canada, although they managed to tie in the second half unexpectedly. The goal came from a corner in favor of the Maple Leaf team, which did play the lottery there. They left only Bombito behind and a kick from Aramburu became a problem. Rondón, who had been playing but had not been sharp,  won the battle and took advantage of Crépeau's position, who must have thought that he had to go all the way out and shoot at the other team's goal. With the goalkeeper out of place, Salomón nailed the  equalizer.....

With the tie, penalties appeared on the horizon. They should not have even gotten to them at all, because of Canada, which once again deserved a better prize before the penalty round. But they found their reward in the false lottery, sending out a message that Argentina received. You have to play the match, and in the semifinals it is all to play for."

 

Edited July 7 by Unnamed Trialist

[gigi riva]

1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

2 million to participate.

Then there's a budget of 40 million US in prizes, divided this way:

If you make quarter finals, you get 2 million US more.

If you get past quarter finals, the 4th place team gets 4 million more, 3rd get 5 million more, the loser of the final gets 7 million, and the winner gets 16 million. 

So Canada has already collected 2 + a minimum of 4 more, 6 million US. 

Of course we are eagerly awaiting Rick Westhead's explanation of how this is terrible news for Canadian soccer finances.

I am sure RickWesthead will find something wrong 

[Joe MacCarthy]

 

[Sal333]

13 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

A little bit of both, maybe. Euros is very polished and neat, it is looking more and more like the higher level women's football, it is automated and book-learnt. Few players play out of the box, there is very little spark, then you end up responding to the younger guys like Musiala and Yamal because they are sparky and young. But most of the rest of the football is excellent, on paper, but a bit dry.

Then Copa is wilder, at the limit, if you are studious of the game or a tactician it could be maddening. The reffing is far less consistent, though not necessarily decisive, partially because these matches are much harder to ref and there is a bias from Conmebol. The players are chippier, there is more tactical fouling, the pace can be nuts, and there are more errors, players seem sloppier. 

I like somewhere in between, I'd love for some of these Euro teams to have a couple players come out like crazies, and especially the big stars. Mbappe, if he's closed down, goes on sleep mode. If you had to say who the best player in Euros has been, you'd pick a guy based on objective reason, but not on bursts of talent breaking a game apart.

Being someone who knows the Guardiola way better than most year, because I watched him play and coach in the Barça academy then the first team, I know perfectly well the defects. You can see the England team repeating Guardiola-type defects, which is what Barça does post Guardiola at times too. The worst, is that possession is so sacrosanct it ends up being mannered, so it is not a style, it is a mannerism. It is a copy of a style, not an expression of a style. One of the first things Guardiola did at Barça was purge players like Eto'o, real stallions with fire and passion, because he could not fit him into his system. Deco too. Guys who were idiosyncratic but added intangibles. Odd, because Cruyff was not like that, so Guardiola betrayed Cruyff, who brought in Stoichkov who was demented and had hot blood plus passion to win, or Romario, who was another very odd talent. Mix the nutty talent with the staid talent, and find a system it can all fit into, and that is the kind of football worth watching. 

The most obvious difference between the Euros and Copa America is that they don't attempt to disguise their corruption in Copa America. The Europeans feel the need to pretend. Case in point the officiating in the Ven-Can game.

I love this game but I despise the overt corruption in the game even more than the laughable histrionics of players when they're touched.

[Canucklehead69]

On 7/6/2024 at 12:49 AM, Bison44 said:

Jeepers, a lot of sour grapes from the ESPN crew.  

 

Definitely a little. I think Moreno was pissed that Venezuela threw a great opportunity away (we'd feel the same if we lost) he's usually pretty good.

Keller hates everyone and every former USWNT member is a complete choade on TV so I wouldn't read that much into it. I do wish they had Craig call in or something like they're doing with the Brazilian guy. Besides Herc and Moreno they obviously had not watched us as well.

Hercules obviously loves us which is nice. It's not about style anyways look at France and England. Honestly Uruguay is getting a lot of credit but they've just been kicking the hell out of everyone without any discipline ( they had 55 fouls and one card before yesterday) and got outplayed by the one good team they've played. Just win and no one will remember how it's done.

The FOX panel is horrific basically acting like our little brother for some reason. Don't really have that much hate for the us men's team so I don't know why they do us. Hate Honduras way more then them

 

[Unnamed Trialist]

8 hours ago, Sal333 said:

The most obvious difference between the Euros and Copa America is that they don't attempt to disguise their corruption in Copa America. The Europeans feel the need to pretend. Case in point the officiating in the Ven-Can game.

I love this game but I despise the overt corruption in the game even more than the laughable histrionics of players when they're touched.

The ref allowing 4-5 yellow card fouls from Kroos, as his bye-bye gift, injuring a key Spain player for weeks with no consequence, is also "corrupt". Or at least it is dishonest. He saw one yellow, two of those at least were not even called as fouls, one the foul that ruined Pedri's tournament and pre-season, another at the top of the box that was clear as day, with the ref right there. Wave it on, thanks Anthony Taylor.

But if you watch Champions League you see the so-called best European refs almost all commit big errors based on having their cocky egos backed by UEFA. A lot of international refs in Europe are there because of the ability to make "big" decisions and stick by them. It is not a technical analysis, it is a posture and poise analysis of the ref. If you'd ask the fans of their respective leagues, many would say that the guy is not the best representative of reffing from their country. In Spain we had Mateu Lahoz who reffed that shit-show Argentina-Netherlands in Qatar, he was a walking disaster in Spain as everyone knew, had no consistency, but somehow he represented Spanish reffing at at World Cup. The other top refs must have looked at that embarrassed as well as jealous of the injustice of his appointment.

We have had very dishonest decisions based on managing Conmebol success this tournament: not calling the foul on Shaff at the edge of the box for fear it was a penalty, not the ref nor the linesman; the headbutt; the lead up to our goal vs. Chile, which was our thrown in, not theirs; a few two-way skirmishes in all matches just arbitrarily waved their way; the keeper impeding a throw in vs. Venezuela, he was asking for that foul, he was willing to take the yellow. It was laughable. 

I expect some other critical moment of a similar nature vs. Argentina. The ref will probably not want it to be close because the pressure from the Argentina side will be too strong, he may decide just to "end it" early to relieve himself of critical decisions late. 

Edited July 7 by Unnamed Trialist

[Sal333]

3 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

The ref allowing 4-5 yellow card fouls from Kroos, as his bye-bye gift, injuring a key Spain player for weeks with no consequence, is also "corrupt". Or at least it is dishonest. He saw one yellow, two of those at least were not even called as fouls, one the foul that ruined Pedri's tournament and pre-season, another at the top of the box that was clear as day, with the ref right there. Wave it on, thanks Anthony Taylor.

But if you watch Champions League you see the so-called best European refs almost all commit big errors based on having their cocky egos backed by UEFA. A lot of international refs in Europe are there because of the ability to make "big" decisions and stick by them. It is not a technical analysis, it is a posture and poise analysis of the ref. If you'd ask the fans of their respective leagues, many would say that the guy is not the best representative of reffing from their country. In Spain we had Mateu Lahoz who reffed that shit-show Argentina-Netherlands in Qatar, he was a walking disaster in Spain as everyone knew, had no consistency, but somehow he represented Spanish reffing at at World Cup. The other top refs must have looked at that embarrassed as well as jealous of the injustice of his appointment.

We agree there is corruption.

[CanadianTraveller]

On 7/5/2024 at 9:14 PM, maplebanana said:

I didn't need to take blood pressure medicine before today but probably will after. 

152 bpm...and that was 5 minutes AFTER Kone's last touch. (Fitbit says it was 151 before Kone's strike.) But there was some jumping and hugging...so we'll call it cardio instead of a heart attack.

[JAVIERF]

12 hours ago, Sal333 said:

The most obvious difference between the Euros and Copa America is that they don't attempt to disguise their corruption in Copa America. The Europeans feel the need to pretend. Case in point the officiating in the Ven-Can game.

I love this game but I despise the overt corruption in the game even more than the laughable histrionics of players when they're touched.

Of course.  Var system wasn't invented to attack Americans to this imperfect game, wasnt to have the eagle eye of tennis neither for justice all along,  was to establish corruption and to dictate results as they needed unless there is a blatant situation.  

How to beat them,  as in the past , being better than the " heavy shirts" .  

Bulgaria of 1993/1994 eliminated France Greece Argentina Mexico Germany until they faced Italy and in that match they played horribly different as they were playing ....we will never know the truth about that semi final

Maybe they got stage fright

[JAVIERF]

The Uefa Referee from Italy will be for Canada Vs Argentina according to TYC

[CanadianTraveller]

On 7/5/2024 at 10:14 PM, RJB said:

The atmosphere tonight seemed exceptional

Very good, but not at World Cup levels from the best nations' supporters. (Looking at you, Morocco.) But like us, Venezuela is developing from a very low place; I sensed that many of these folks were new-to-Copa. For just 50,000 (and there had to be more given the folks in the 400 level) with plenty of neutrals (i.e. Mexicans) they bring the volume. Similar to what I saw/heard on TV for the Austin group match.

Venezuela fans - like their team - are to be watched for in 2026. Generally very pleasant (plus or minus some projectile beer) and complimentary of Canada post-match.

I don't think Larry from Edmonchuk will get through U.S. Customs without an interview on Tuesday. He is in at least 1000 photos on social media that clearly place him in Caracas as a Venezuelan. Thank goodness he wears his flag on his sleeve. And his face.

[CanadianTraveller]

On 7/5/2024 at 10:17 PM, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

Mostly on him.  No reason to be where he was and if he is in position, I guarantee you Bombito catches Rondon (could have done it when I watched him at West Brom) even after being bodied. 

Perhaps correct, but consensus post-match is that he had been in that same position for the entire match until then, and I had great respect that he remained in that position after the goal. From the outfield bleachers, it looked like he treated it as a necessary cost of doing things the "right way" instead of shrinking back like it was a personal failure.

That didn't stop me from wondering how Milan Borjan jumped onto the field while no one was looking. lol

[CanadianTraveller]

On 7/5/2024 at 10:46 PM, jonovision said:

I don't know how many people watched that 2000 final, but I have to think the number tuned in tonight was about 10x higher.

I believe the 250,000 then would translate into about 450,000 using today's ratings tech and model in Canada; someone else may know equivalency. And since the country has grown 33% since then, let's say 600,000. From Globe and Mail:

"Early ratings for the Gold Cup final last Sunday, Canada-Colombia, indicate Sportsnet pulled in a 250,000-plus national audience.

Ratings from the Pacific and West regions have not been measured, but Ontario-East had a viewership of 178,000. The West can be expected to deliver an audience of 20,000 and the Pacific well more than 50,000, perhaps as high as 100,000."

Edited July 8 by CanadianTraveller
Added inflation.

[CanadianTraveller]

On 7/5/2024 at 11:05 PM, jonovision said:

In just over a month, this group of players will have played Netherlands, France, Argentina, Peru, Chile, Venezuela, Argentina again, and then an opponent like Colombia or Brazil. That's more than a World Cup finalist's run worth of games, and against mostly World Cup calibre opposition.

Some here will know how I feel about Canada Soccer (hint: it's not printable.) But credit where credit is due: To schedule that lineup in a 37-38 day window is damn impressive and worthy of praise and admiration.

Even more credit to the 16 players, as well as associated staff, who played on March 23, 2024, without them absolutely none of this happens and quite possibly the association suffers the ignominy of bankruptcy. Especially to those who aren't on the Copa squad to enjoy in person the fruits of their dedication to Canada Soccer.

To think I wanted Canada to beat Jamaica at home in order to avoid Group A. What was I thinking?

[CanadianTraveller]

On 7/6/2024 at 12:38 PM, Jack1997 said:

The guy in the habs jersey😭

Say what? The 70-year-old guy drinking alone at the hotel bar post-game? That's who Fox put on screen? Even the in stadium crew knew where to find Canada (soccer) jerseys. Sounds like the post-game commentary panel also does broadcast production - cost-saving (and quality-free) measure.

[red card]

Average of 1.7m for Vinotinto match across TSN/CTV2/RDS. Another Copa high but not much higher than Chile match. But peak of 2.6m and reach of 4.35m did move up more higher. Peak and reach for Canada's World Cup matches were about 2x higher. 

About 200k average watched on RDS which is also a new Copa high. So about half the gains from Chile match came from French language viewers. On TVA Sports, the overall average for Euros so far is between 100-150k.

 

Edited July 8 by red card

[Canucklehead69]

Maybe they'll start actually showing national team games on TV if this keeps up.

 

Better numbers then half the shit they throw up on those channels and at this point is cheap for them