Copa America: Canada vs Peru - Tuesday, June 25th - 6pm Eastern / 3pm Pacific - Kansas City, Kansas

[dyslexic nam]

9 minutes ago, ensco said:

I find the general tone of commentary kind of unreal. Do we really not know how to take the win? This is bizarre.

How many games have Canada actually won against decent non-Concacaf opponents? Is it two… in the last 75 years?

We are showing no appreciation for gutting out results, when not at your best, which teams like US and Mexico do all the time… but when we do it, it's not good enough.

We beat a team in just super unreal weather conditions, conditions the other team has far more experience with, with 95% of the crowd against us, in a game that mattered far more to them than to us… and 88% of the posts here are like: bummer man, it really doesn’t count, because we didn’t “look” like Brazil, and the other guys lost their cool but we didn't … 

As someone who was there, I can tell you that every single one of the 200-300 Canadians there was delirious with joy at a famous victory. It would seriously bother me if I were one of the players and this is what I saw. This is what support looks like for something this meaningful?

Smell the flowers people. They are beautiful!

To be fair, a lot of the negativity accurately reflected the run of play up until the red card.  We DID look poor for long stretches of the game.  We WERE wasteful with the ball and slow to move it.  The fact that we ultimately won doesn’t change that fact and I don’t see much point in pretending otherwise.   

They gambled they could play a really physical game against us and it didn’t pay off.  They were penalized for one card-able offence and let off the hook for another.  Then we capitalized on it.  But even after the card, let’s be honest - they still had multiple good chances, and barring some heroic keeping from Max we could easily be sitting one 1 point after 2 games.  

It was great to get the win.  And we now have a great chance to go for a result against Chile and advance into the next round - which would be a huge accomplishment.  But that doesn’t change the complexion of the game for the first hour where we were really struggling.  

[ensco]

It's not about being “fair”. It's about the result! Why not say: we kept it level until we could find a way to earn a break, which we capitalized on.

Edited June 26 by ensco

[An Observer]

17 minutes ago, ensco said:

I find the general tone of commentary kind of unreal. Do we really not know how to take the win? This is bizarre.

How many games have Canada actually won against decent non-Concacaf opponents? Is it two… in the last 75 years?

We are showing no appreciation for gutting out results, when not at your best, which teams like US and Mexico do all the time… but when we do it, it's not good enough.

We beat a team in just super unreal weather conditions, conditions the other team has far more experience with, with 95% of the crowd against us, in a game that mattered far more to them than to us… and 88% of the posts here are like: bummer man, it really doesn’t count, because we didn’t “look” like Brazil, and the other guys lost their cool but we didn't … 

As someone who was there, I can tell you that every single one of the 200-300 Canadians there was delirious with joy at a famous victory. It would seriously bother me if I were one of the players and this is what I saw. This is what support looks like for something this meaningful?

Smell the flowers people. They are beautiful!

I generally agree with this but at least we are not like the English fans where after each victory no matter how poorly they played or poor the opponent, they react like they will now win all the remainder of their matches at the tournament they are in and finally bring football home. And when they lose, it’s the opposite reaction.

A little realistic criticism isn’t necessarily a bad thing

[dyslexic nam]

3 minutes ago, ensco said:

It's not about being “fair”. It's about the result! Why not say: we kept it level until we could find a way to earn a break, which we capitalized on.

Because that isn’t an accurate reflection of the game I saw.  

[kingvikingstad]

10 minutes ago, ensco said:

It's not about being “fair”. It's about the result! Why not say: we kept it level until we could find a way to earn a break, which we capitalized on.

Sure, you could have hundreds of posts with synoyms of 'awesome,' but that's redundant and boring.

Also, I can hold two thoughts in my head at the same time - I can think 'holy shit we won, I can't believe how elated I am' while also considering 'can we replicate that against Chile? Did we get lucky because of the red? What areas need improvement? What players are contributing to winning?

I would imagine most people fall into this category of thinking.

[DeRo_Is_King]

27 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

Anyone notice the blatant foul on Shaffelburg on the goal a few seconds after he passed the ball? You can see it on the replay from behind the goal. 
 

Boy, those Peruvian players really don’t like white guys with blonde hair! Not sure how Liam Millar escaped getting attacked, maybe they noticed his hair was dyed blonde, so it doesn’t quite count. 😉

Yeah. I noticed the foul as well. But this blonde-haired white guy with the immovable smile had the last laugh. 

[Kadenge]

@enscokudos to you and all the other Vs/Cdn supporters at the game. We certainly could see you'll celebrating and hear you'll singing/chanting after the goal. Let me assure you  that all of us who were not at the game but watching on TV,  shouted out /screamed/ spilled our beer when Canada scored. I know I did. It's not that we are not happy for the win, but expectations are now much higher for our squad with the players we have and after WC22.  I'm sure if you asked them, the players would say....yah we're happy for the win but we need to be much better in our next game. 

[DeRo_Is_King]

2 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

@enscokudos to you and all the other Vs/Cdn supporters at the game. We certainly could see you'll celebrating and hear you'll singing/chanting after the goal. Let me assure you  that all of us who were not at the game but watching on TV,  shouted out /screamed/ spilled our beer when Canada scored. I know I did. It's not that we are not happy for the win, but expectations are now much higher for our squad with the players we have and after WC22.  I'm sure if you asked them, the players would say....yah we're happy for the win but we need to be much better in our next game. 

This. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

4 hours ago, Bigandy said:

Verbruggen is 21 and starting in the EPL. He was phenomenal for andrelecht. He’s raw but much better. 
 

Geertruida beats out dumfries and frimpong at right back. Arguably 2 of the best rwbs in the world. Yes they are differently stylistically and they are rwb but for geertruida to be anywhere in the conversation with those guys speaks to his quality. Many top clubs have scouted him. 
 

Laimer and sabitzer are quality but Reijnders and shouten are comparable.  We are without de Jong, Koop, and de roon.  So essentially comparing austrias best players vs our weakest. 
 

if you do hollands best position-cb then you have.

van dijk, ake, de ligt, van de ven, de vrij, timber, geertruida, blind, botman and hato who easily walk into austrias starting line up.  
 

I can give you a list of 10 more guys like schurrs, st juste etc who all arguably start for Austria as well.  
 

There’s no comparison in the squads. Austria doesn’t have a single player who starts for holland when everyone is fit. Sabitzer could start the euros since there’s a midfield injury crisis for the euros. 

Alaba?

Anyways, Netherlands are a bit like England, like them their fans tend to have a bloated idea of who they are and the quality of the team. Another set of fans who will tell you they are god's gift to football. Then you play a WC final vs Spain, or many other critical matches (like vs. Argentina) and a good chunk of the proposal is anti-football. And whining, and hypocrisy on top of it. Very close to how England loses. You talk the glory years of total football and end up with Van Bommels all over the place. Or frauds like Overmars.

Since I have seen some of the best of Dutch players over the last 30 years I have a fairly decent idea of the most honourable, most of whom Dutch fans don't even realize are monumental representatives of the game (Phillip Cocu).

I predicted the Dutch would win it all, and still could, but there are a lot of blind spots when it comes to the national team. Then a coach who has a very weak capacity for self-criticism, from a long line of unenlightened managers who are in fact quite the opposite of the few illuminati you have given the world (that guy who smoked to much, or Hiddink). 

Edited June 27 by Unnamed Trialist

[eramosat]

About 24 hours later, I still feel really good about this win.  And as time goes on, I know I will feel better and better about, as the minor details of the game, and whether Canada deserved anything or not given their play and Peru's play, recede in favour of the blunt facts.  Which is that Canada scored, and Peru could not, and did not, our players stopped them from doing so!  With their efforts...not by magic!  

The hand-wringing over individual play, and team play quite honestly takes a big back-seat. Because if every team that won ugly ever had to give back their wins, there would likely be an entirely different set of champions, for every major tournament ever conducted, world-wide.  Including the Gold Cup, which is one of the most prestigious tournaments on the planet.

Looking forward to Chile, and locking down a spot in the next round.

 

 

Edited June 27 by eramosat

[frattinator]

15 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Alaba?

Alaba is out of the Euros with an ACL injury no?

[ensco]

Well, the players have to focus on being better Saturday. Sure.

But there is a sense of history and perspective that could or should matter more. That is our ball to carry. Or drop.

[Unnamed Trialist]

2 minutes ago, frattinator said:

Alaba is out of the Euros with an ACL injury no?

He's almost back. As Nacho is going to Saudi Arabia he'll start for Madrid beside Rudiger next year, as long as the recovery goes well.

I personally do not think Van Dijk is better than Alaba, another player people judge on the basis of his stare.

[Unnamed Trialist]

8 minutes ago, eramosat said:

About 24 hours later, I still feel really good about this win.  And as time goes on, I know I will feel better and better about, as the minor details of the game, and whether Canada deserved anything or not given their play and Peru's play, recede in favour of the blunt facts.  Which is that Canada scored, and Peru could not, and did not, our players stopped them from doing so!  With their efforts...not by magic!  

The hand-wringing over individual play, and team play quite honestly takes a big back-seat. Because if every team that won ugly ever had to give back their wins, there would likely be an entirely different set of champions, for every major tournament ever conducted, world-wide.  Including the Gold Cup, which is one of the most prestigious tournaments on the planet.

Looking forward to Chile, and locking down a spot in the next round.

 

I am also just focusing on the three points, how good it feels, and feeling confident the team will do better vs. Chile. Marsch has to do quite a bit better.

I hope Marsch does not waste players in places they are less sure what to do. I am also hoping for the team to show more solidarity and support each other on the pitch, find each other, give each other options, make far better decisions. If we are a bit more patient, and persistent, and not rushing, we will get the chances again. Ridiculous that we had shots from the top of the box vs. powerhouses, play through the middle even, and not one vs friggin Perú.

[GasPed]

2 hours ago, ensco said:

I find the general tone of commentary kind of unreal. Do we really not know how to take the win? This is bizarre.

How many games have Canada actually won against decent non-Concacaf opponents? Is it two… in the last 75 years?

We are showing no appreciation for gutting out results, when not at your best, which teams like US and Mexico do all the time… but when we do it, it's not good enough.

We beat a team in just super unreal weather conditions, conditions the other team has far more experience with, with 95% of the crowd against us, in a game that mattered far more to them than to us… and 88% of the posts here are like: bummer man, it really doesn’t count, because we didn’t “look” like Brazil, and the other guys lost their cool but we didn't … 

As someone who was there, I can tell you that every single one of the 200-300 Canadians there was delirious with joy at a famous victory. It would seriously bother me if I were one of the players and this is what I saw. This is what support looks like for something this meaningful?

Smell the flowers people. They are beautiful!

The difference is we here were spectators; you were real fans.  We watched that game; you lived that game.  

And while I appreciate the character our team showed out there in the most oppressive conditions, I don't think I'll ever know what it was really like.  Kudos to you for bringing that perspective back here.👍

[phil03]

11 hours ago, BearcatSA said:

No one's kissing the ring here.  But I still respect this opponent and we need to keep our heads in the game with decision making and play execution for the 90+ minutes to earn the result we need.  We have a couple of starters who aren't "on key" at the moment but I really like our in-form goalkeeping.

I agree about respecting our opponents. Hence the ''cautiously'' before optimistic. Just like us they have some stuff that are going well for them and some strenghts they have as well as som players who should do better and some weaknesses. I do think that we have more raw talent and this being a must win for Chile improve our odds though.

[Big_M]

Is there anything better than giving a south american team a lesson in streetwise soccer with their 71 year old coach who has been around the world crying after the game that we were pushing them around too much? I guess there is something better: doing it all over again on Saturday

[BearcatSA]

4 minutes ago, phil03 said:

I agree about respecting our opponents. Hence the ''cautiously'' before optimistic. Just like us they have some stuff that are going well for them and some strenghts they have as well as som players who should do better and some weaknesses. I do think that we have more raw talent and this being a must win for Chile improve our odds though.

This factor helps the most.

We just need to play a smart game:  some parts aggressive, some parts patient, no "hero" ball where guys can get caught in possession in vulnerable areas, keep the possession rolling

Do a mature, professional job and deliver the goods.

 

[red card]

105k average watched it on RDS. A bit higher than the 87k that watched Argentina but was going against Als game that got 218k.

Just earlier in the day, 105k average also watched England v Slovenia on TVA Sports. Highest reported for Euros on TVA so far has been 134k for Italy v Croatia on Monday (Fête nationale du Québec).

No TSN PR of TSN/CTV2 numbers which usually implies nothing notable to say. 

[phil03]

8 minutes ago, Big_M said:

Is there anything better than giving a south american team a lesson in streetwise soccer with their 71 year old coach who has been around the world crying after the game that we were pushing them around too much? I guess there is something better: doing it all over again on Saturday

The sheer hypocrisy of the Peruvian coach after his team played the way it did, and doing this was very much their game plan IMO, calling anyone else dirty is something to behold!

Like, I am not even blaming for the most part. IMO most of the responsibility is on Conmebol for fostering that kind of play by not telling their refs to heavily crack down on it  but if you do decide to weaponise Conmebol letting you do this you really should shut up after the physicality of other teams!

[SthMelbRed]

14 minutes ago, Big_M said:

Is there anything better than giving a south american team a lesson in streetwise soccer with their 71 year old coach who has been around the world crying after the game that we were pushing them around too much? I guess there is something better: doing it all over again on Saturday

He was okay with headbutting, but had a big cry about shirt pulling. The fuckwit should be sent to the glue factory, 'cause he's entirely too stupid for the living world at this point.

[Bigandy]

1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Alaba?

Anyways, Netherlands are a bit like England, like them their fans tend to have a bloated idea of who they are and the quality of the team. Another set of fans who will tell you they are god's gift to football. Then you play a WC final vs Spain, or many other critical matches (like vs. Argentina) and a good chunk of the proposal is anti-football. And whining, and hypocrisy on top of it. Very close to how England loses. You talk the glory years of total football and end up with Van Bommels all over the place. Or frauds like Overmars.

Since I have seen some of the best of Dutch players over the last 30 years I have a fairly decent idea of the most honourable, most of whom Dutch fans don't even realize are monumental representatives of the game (Phillip Cocu).

I predicted the Dutch would win it all, and still could, but there are a lot of blind spots when it comes to the national team. Then a coach who has a very weak capacity for self-criticism, from a long line of unenlightened managers who are in fact quite the opposite of the few illuminati you have given the world (that guy who smoked to much, or Hiddink). 

Alaba was excluded from my post since he’s injured. 
 

I don’t think he starts at lcb over van dijk but we would use him at lb over ake or maybe in the mid with frenkie and Koop out. 
 

my experience with the Dutch is quite different.  I think the Dutch (which I am) are insanely arrogant judgemental and condescending. Most Dutch fans talk about how stupid our coach is and how horrible every player is and how they are so smart that they can predict holland won’t win the World Cup.  
 

I’m active on another board like this one but for holland and 90% of the post are “we need to lose today and get kicked out as soon as possible so we can finally wake up the coach and federation to how horrible we are”

 

I very very rarely hear a Dutchman say the national team is any level above complete rubbish. 

[Bigandy]

1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

He's almost back. As Nacho is going to Saudi Arabia he'll start for Madrid beside Rudiger next year, as long as the recovery goes well.

I personally do not think Van Dijk is better than Alaba, another player people judge on the basis of his stare.

Interesting (and irrelevant topic).  Van dijk pre and post injury are very different. Maybe alaba will be the same. Van dijk wouldn’t get dropped from the national team for Alaba with our current coach.  Playing geertruida over de ligt in a back 3 or over dumfries in a 4 shows that players are chosen stylistically more than on ability. 
 

van dijk dominates everything aerially, plays diagonals to dumfries, and organizes us better than Alaba would.  Alaba is more well rounded and works for rm where there’s no weaknesses. I think we would play him cm.  

[dyslexic nam]

12 minutes ago, phil03 said:

The sheer hypocrisy of the Peruvian coach after his team played the way it did, and doing this was very much their game plan IMO, calling anyone else dirty is something to behold!

Like, I am not even blaming for the most part. IMO most of the responsibility is on Conmebol for fostering that kind of play by not telling their refs to heavily crack down on it  but if you do decide to weaponise Conmebol letting you do this you really should shut up after the physicality of other teams!

Yeah, the irony involved is pretty hilarious.  

- Coach accuses us a probable thuggery ahead of the game in an effort to manipulate and bias officials   

- Coach undoubtedly encourages his players to play a hard game with lots of fouls.  

- his team is the one that crosses the line into full blown assault which ultimately contributes heavily to their loss.  

- he whinges about our physical tactics

The layers of irony would make Christopher Nolan proud.  


 

[phil03]

7 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

Yeah, the irony involved is pretty hilarious.  

- Coach accuses us a probable thuggery ahead of the game in an effort to manipulate and bias officials   

- Coach undoubtedly encourages his players to play a hard game with lots of fouls.  

- his team is the one that crosses the line into full blown assault which ultimately contributes heavily to their loss.  

- he whinges about our physical tactics

The layers of irony would make Christopher Nolan proud.  


 

On top of that he accused us of thuggery when their game against Chile was essentially two group of professional athletes trying to slaughter each other, and its Peru who took the lead in making it so...