Copa America Other Matches + Group A

[vancanman]

12 hours ago, 74 Whitecap said:

The problem with this approach is missing the crowd noise. I remember decades ago, the French CBC commentators were on strike (during the NHL playoffs) so they just showed the game with the full crowd noise, rinkside mics, etc and no commentary - best thing ever, I don't understand why in this digital era, we can't have that as an option -  I would pay extra to get 'less'!

Other than the Canada - Argentina match, which was on TV here, all the games I've seen have been without commentary.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnytKFJthNMt9_z3LHNACtA　

[Gian-Luca]

1 hour ago, costarg said:

It's a possibility.  The USA fed has also proven to have its own healthy level of toxicity, nepotism and private club running through it.

A lot of the US pundits feel that this is likely to happen. According to Kasey Keller on ESPN FC's post-game show, the US have had an "equity" development whereby they have to apparently pay their Men's National Team Coach the same as they pay their Women's National Team coach. He was mentioning this as the unlikelihood of US fans getting a world-class coach (e.g. Klopp) that they are clamouring for. So they can't hire a coach with a salary of, say, 8 million a year unless they also up the salary of the women's team coach to also be 8 million a year. Madness if you ask me, that is one area where the concept of equity makes no sense given the salary levels involved in the respective coaching markets that the Federations would be competing in for a top coach.

Speaking of the US women's team, it was Carli Lloyd's turn to play sore loser last night on the Alexi Lalas Fox Soccer podcast as she implied, just like Stu Holden, that we didn't deserve to go through because we only scored one goal and also flat out said "We don't want to see Canada qualify for the next round". Well, too bad - we did!

 

[vancanman]

11 hours ago, BearcatSA said:

 

Her name is Stu?

Edited Tuesday at 02:31 PM by vancanman

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

5 minutes ago, jonovision said:

I really don't understand Pulisic in that situation. A handshake is usually meant to be, at minimum, a sign of respect. Why go in for one when your comments and demeanor suggest the exact opposite?

I don't understand either person's reaction. 

But its a habit of sportmanship and should be honoured by the person who didn't just lose something important to them. 

[Obinna]

Just dropped in to say I am really enjoying the USMNT meltdown. That is all.

[InglewoodJack]

16 minutes ago, jonovision said:

I really don't understand Pulisic in that situation. A handshake is usually meant to be, at minimum, a sign of respect. Why go in for one when your comments and demeanor suggest the exact opposite?

Post game handshakes are based on the principle that whatever happens during a game stays within the game, and once the final whistle is blown, you treat your opponents with respect. 

[BearcatSA]

8 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

A lot of the US pundits feel that this is likely to happen. According to Kasey Keller on ESPN FC's post-game show, the US have had an "equity" development whereby they have to apparently pay their Men's National Team Coach the same as they pay their Women's National Team coach. He was mentioning this as the unlikelihood of US fans getting a world-class coach (e.g. Klopp) that they are clamouring for. So they can't hire a coach with a salary of, say, 8 million a year unless they also up the salary of the women's team coach to also be 8 million a year. Madness if you ask me, that is one area where the concept of equity makes no sense given the salary levels involved in the respective coaching markets that the Federations would be competing in for a top coach.

Speaking of the US women's team, it was Carli Lloyd's turn to play sore loser last night on the Alexi Lalas Fox Soccer podcast as she implied, just like Stu Holden, that we didn't deserve to go through because we only scored one goal and also flat out said "We don't want to see Canada qualify for the next round". Well, too bad - we did!

 

They can't find some corporate entity to kick in like we have with MLS Canadian ownership?  "Introducing the Pfizer USMNT coach...."

And as for Stu, Carli and the others, they need more cheese to go with that whine.  May I suggest some Canadian cheddar or some Oka?  

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

5 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Just dropped in to say I am really enjoying the USMNT meltdown. That is all.

Maybe this should go on their thread but the weirdness for me is the players' reaction.

They must really like Berhalter, which is good on a primary level but seems a bit self-defeating at this juncture. 

I genuinely felt bad for him in some shots I have seen but that's the opposition of what you need in a head coach.  

[frmr]

Personally I couldn't care less what the American pundits think about Canada's progression. Of course they're going to be emotional after this loss. To be honest, I'm a little disappointed they didn't go through, we have a vested interest in a strong US program as the rising tide helps us on this continent, as like it or not, the game in our country is tied to the game in their country. A huge missed opportunity for them.

As for the ref, he was absolutely atrocious. That was literally the worst referring performance I've ever seen, and that guy should not be allowed to ref another high level match. At the end, Pulisic was telling them that they should be in the center circle, not to join the Urugayan celebrations as has been incorrectly suggested, which is true. I'd be fucking pissed if I was Pulisic as well and to be honest, he's the only American player who showed any passion out there. That ref should be ashamed this morning.

[vancanman]

11 hours ago, phil03 said:

If this is going to happen I want, at the very least four things:

I. Concacaf getting equal power to Conmebol in organization and ESPECIALLY anything refs related. The bias against Concacaf teams was sickening. They need our money for Copa America and when it come to Copa Libertadores we both have more money and the two best leagues, so it's noting more than what the cards we have should give us.

II. I want Conmebol to commit to help stamp out both the disrespect against CONCACAF teams in general and in particular the racist insults against black players from (small minorities of) fans of some Conmebol team.

III. For Copa everyone needs to qualify, simple as that. No more automatic qualification for Conmebol teams. Honestly, if we had, say Curacao, Haiti or Suriname instead of Bolivia and Paraguay the level of the tournament would be higher.

IV. No more rotation of hosts in South America, and instead a normal bidding process. This way we won't have to be subjected to Bolivia weaponizing altitude, for example.

If any of those won't happen then we should say thanks but no thanks to any deeper partnership with Conmebol.

1.   Even if the officiating in this tournament has been biased against CONCACAF teams, the referees in CONCACAF are so horrible themselves, I don't see how we can improve anything without going with referees from outside the Americas.

2. Absolutely!

3. Absolutely again

4. I fear this would just lead to mickey-mousifiying the whole thing, and it'll be just like the Gold Cup, Nations League final, and anything else, and always be hosted by the US.   

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 hour ago, Cheeta said:

They've looked really good at times in the past, coming together on the same page as it were, like in Nations League.  Would be glad to have more than one or two of their lads in our player pool.  Just couldn't get it together enough these past couple weeks.  It happens to everybody.

That said, i don't care how aggrieved you feel about this or that, not qualifying out of that group?  Gives you pause for thought while you're choking down a great big helping of crow.

That group: their hardest team was weaker than our hardest, and the other two were both weaker than our other two rivals. We played in a harder group and got out. 

So tell me about how they got easier teams because they are higher ranked and let's watch them start walking in circles in a slow spiral back to Bradenton or a July 4th BBQ, take your pick.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

1 minute ago, frmr said:

Personally I couldn't care less what the American pundits think about Canada's progression. Of course they're going to be emotional after this loss. To be honest, I'm a little disappointed they didn't go through, we have a vested interest in a strong US program as the rising tide helps us on this continent, as like it or not, the game in our country is tied to the game in their country. A huge missed opportunity for them.

As for the ref, he was absolutely atrocious. That was literally the worst referring performance I've ever seen, and that guy should not be allowed to ref another high level match. At the end, Pulisic was telling them that they should be in the center circle, not to join the Urugayan celebrations as has been incorrectly suggested, which is true. I'd be fucking pissed if I was Pulisic as well and to be honest, he's the only American player who showed any passion out there. That ref should be ashamed this morning.

We literally benefit from regularly playing a highly ranked US (and Mexico) team.

[frmr]

1 minute ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

We literally benefit from regularly playing a highly ranked US (and Mexico) team.

Exactly, personal rivalries aside, I'm surprised so many people are happy to see them lose. It's bad for Canada Soccer in so many obvious ways.

[Gian-Luca]

9 minutes ago, BearcatSA said:

They can't find some corporate entity to kick in like we have with MLS Canadian ownership?  "Introducing the Pfizer USMNT coach...."

They could do that, but that's not really the issue from what I understand - if they paid the men's coach by getting corporations to kick in some cash, they would still have to do the same with the women's coach. If, say, they manage to pry Ancellotti from Real Madrid for $20 million a year for the next two years, they would have to pay the women's team coach $20 million a year as well, regardless of where the funds are coming from. At least, that is what I understood Kasey Keller is saying on ESPN FC last night on YouTube

[InglewoodJack]

6 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

We literally benefit from regularly playing a highly ranked US (and Mexico) team.

West Ham literally benefits from regularly playing a high ranked Spurs team

[dyslexic nam]

43 minutes ago, mpg_29 said:

Beating Venezuela would pay a lot of dividends for us in terms of the financials and that you are guaranteed two more games(semi+final/3rd place game) against top teams. Which for us is another benefit. Though I guess 3rd place games are not treated as seriously.

For me this is the biggest thing on the line next game.  Two more very high level competitive games would be amazing - both from a fan perspective and in terms of development.  

If we defeat Venezuela and make it to the semis, my honest opinion is that we end up 4th.  We aren’t getting by an Argentina team in a knockout round, and then I don’t think we beat a team like Uruguay - even if they aren’t as fully interested in fighting for 3rd.  They would likely get the calls, and the way they came out absolutely rabid against the US makes me think they would overwhelm us and get the W.  Not trying to be pessimistic - just think we will have hit the limit of what we can achieve.  Thus the next game is sort of our final in my oddball view of this tournament - and the “trophy” is two more elite games.  Making the semis would have always been seen as a big success for Canada.  

[vancanman]

I don't want to just benefit from playing an overly ranked US team.   I want to benefit from playing (legitimately) even higher ranked, and more interesting teams like we have over the past couple of weeks.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

2 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

West Ham literally benefits from regularly playing a high ranked Spurs team

I love beating Millwall more and they are "lower ranked."

[dyslexic nam]

10 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

We literally benefit from regularly playing a highly ranked US (and Mexico) team.

There is not a lot of rationality in the joy I take from seeing the US team fall on its face.  It just is what it is, and supersedes the arithmetic of what may be ultimately better from a tactical point of view.  

[SpursFlu]

Listening to the American reaction this morning it makes me think how much football culture has changed 

I haven't heard one person bring up Tim Weah. Remember David Beckham's red card in the world cup and the heat he took. 

Tim Weah doesn't take a red card for a none football action not even in the run of play and the Americans go thru. Pretty simple to me. 

I don't think he needs to turned in to some kind of villain and life ruined but the fact that it's not even mentioned seems strange to me

Edited Tuesday at 03:03 PM by SpursFlu

[frmr]

4 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

There is not a lot of rationality in the joy I take from seeing the US team fall on its face.  It just is what it is, and supersedes the arithmetic of what may be ultimately better from a tactical point of view.  

This is where I disagree. My love for Canada Soccer is vastly greater than my hate for other programs. I actually don't hate other programs at all and get no joy from seeing any countries lose. Even if I did though, I ultimately always want the most success for Canada versus reveling in the failures of others. I get that many people do get joy from that though.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

Just now, dyslexic nam said:

There is not a lot of rationality in the joy I take from seeing the US team fall on its face.  It just is what it is, and supersedes the arithmetic of what may be ultimately better from a tactical point of view.  

I do enjoy seeing arrogance getting its comeuppance and that is certainly borne out on social media. 

 

But maybe because I lived there and still have friends from then and from there who I met in England, I do not have inherent joy in them failing for the sake of it. 

 

I was also always frustrated with us defining ourselves as anti-American and not on our own merits.

 

But I understand and the strength of this thread is understandable. 

[frmr]

Also it's not just arithmetic, it's tangible. Having higher ranked countries in our federation will literally lead to a higher FIFA ranking for us, which leads to better seeding in tournaments, which can lead directly to more games and more tangible success.

[Kingston]

6 minutes ago, frmr said:

Exactly, personal rivalries aside, I'm surprised so many people are happy to see them lose. It's bad for Canada Soccer in so many obvious ways.

I'm not surprised.  As much as we benefit from playing against them, there have been many times we've lost major tournaments like the Gold Cup or important games to them.  Also, the deck is frequently stacked in their favour (hosting, curious reffing decisions) despite them already being one of the best teams in CONCACAF.  So, yeah, I'm not sad to see them go this time.

[dyslexic nam]

3 minutes ago, frmr said:

Also it's not just arithmetic, it's tangible. Having higher ranked countries in our federation will literally lead to a higher FIFA ranking for us, which leads to better seeding in tournaments, which can lead directly to more games and more tangible success.

For sure.  
 

…but fuck em.