Metro Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 12 hours ago, rick10 said: Sorry thats a red. Only this forum believes is not a red which i understand but anywhere else outside of canada , everyone agrees is a red A red card you say... Kent, Canuckia, Bison44 and 8 others 2 5 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 34 minutes ago, jonovision said: I just think handshakes are stupid and signify nothing under those circumstances. Nothing to be gained or lost from shaking or not. A tradition of no value. Respect would be something which can be gained or lost, regardless of how you feel about the tradition personally. It's simple, you shake hands and move on, regardless of how you feel on the inside. If you can't do that you're probably taking a sports game way too personal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unnamed Trialist Posted July 2 Author Share Posted July 2 1 hour ago, frmr said: This is where I disagree. My love for Canada Soccer is vastly greater than my hate for other programs. I actually don't hate other programs at all and get no joy from seeing any countries lose. Even if I did though, I ultimately always want the most success for Canada versus reveling in the failures of others. I get that many people do get joy from that though. You remind me of those tourists from certain countries I meet in Barcelona who tell me they are big fans of Real Madrid and Barcelona, Boca and River, Porto and Benfica, and in the EPL support Spurs and Arsenal. I personally prefer my sporting rivals to burn in hell and then the doctor prescribes the wrong blister medicine. kacbru, HochelagaFC, Strait Red and 5 others 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frmr Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 Just now, Unnamed Trialist said: You remind me of those tourists from certain countries I meet in Barcelona who tell me they are big fans of Real Madrid and Barcelona, Boca and River, Porto and Benfica, and in the EPL support Spurs and Arsenal. I personally prefer my sporting rivals to burn in hell and then the doctor prescribes the wrong blister medicine. I think that's the definition of "rent free". Obinna and The Real Marc 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 1 hour ago, InglewoodJack said: Post game handshakes are based on the principle that whatever happens during a game stays within the game, and once the final whistle is blown, you treat your opponents with respect. Apparently Pulisic was spitting some pretty poisonous venom at the ref post match. I'll guess that ref knows enough English to know when he's being called a liar and a cheat and a thief. I don't care who you are or what you're paid when you wearing whatever coloured shirt, you don't get to do that to my face and expect a handshake. * I expect Pulisic and the USSF will be fined/disciplined whether that rumour is true or no. That should provide some cover for the unseemly optic. * If you're looking for a North End Handshake that's the absolute definition of how to go about getting one though. Just saying. Metro and jonovision 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestHamCanadianinOxford Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said: You remind me of those tourists from certain countries I meet in Barcelona who tell me they are big fans of Real Madrid and Barcelona, Boca and River, Porto and Benfica, and in the EPL support Spurs and Arsenal. I personally prefer my sporting rivals to burn in hell and then the doctor prescribes the wrong blister medicine. Not sure that tracks, big difference in supporting both rivals and just not having a consistently high level of rivalry. How many rivals do you maintain that level of animosity for? Again maybe because I have a lot of American friends and am really loath to see us define ourselves as not-American - I can't lift mine to my club rivals. Especially when them doing well benefits us so much. Edited July 2 by WestHamCanadianinOxford Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narduch Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 51 minutes ago, jonovision said: I just think handshakes are stupid and signify nothing under those circumstances. Nothing to be gained or lost from shaking or not. A tradition of no value. It's the showy bullshit neurotypical people love WestHamCanadianinOxford, Obinna and frmr 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InglewoodJack Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 56 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said: Doesn't work as an analogy for me because, there will always be good teams to play in the Premier League, wherever Spurs or Millwall are. And any English team doing well in Europe benefits our chances of being there, not just Tottenham. So then doing well does a miniscule amount of good compared to the tangible benefits we get in the very small incestuous pool that is the upper reaches of CONCACAF. And their rating did budge. They have lost 4 place already and Switzerland will catch them if they get a win in the next round of the Euros. Much like Spurs losing to a premier league team, the states lost most of their points against Panama, so a wash for us, and the points they dropped against Uruguay, at least per ELO, are not significant enough to have bumped them ahead of 30th place Ghana, so not a big deal for us, especially considering how those rankings affect us specifically, ie single digit point differential if we beat the US, especially considering our only scheduled match against them is a friendly. Their success does marginally benefit us, but the benefit of their success pales in comparison to the enjoyment of seeing them fumble. Besides, a weak Concacaf has not prohibited the US from being successful. When the US were ranked 4th in the world in ‘06, we were ranked in the 80s, Mexico was in the low 20s, no clue what the other concacaf nations were up to, but they were in a much weaker conference than the one today. The US team that made the ‘02 quarters was also in a very weak concacaf. If we ever reach similar heights, it won’t matter what the USMNT is up to. At least not in a way that compares to the natural joy of a sports fan in seeing their rival embarrass themselves. Unnamed Trialist, red card and narduch 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestHamCanadianinOxford Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 (edited) 7 minutes ago, narduch said: It's the showy bullshit neurotypical people love There was one kid in hockey who wouldn't shake hands or when he did start a fight. He was also in all my mom's special needs classes when she taught at various levels. ?Sort of makes your point? Edited July 2 by WestHamCanadianinOxford Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GasPed Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 2 hours ago, InglewoodJack said: The US isn’t a team prepared to get into a knife fight. They have all these players playing at great clubs, but they don’t have a Richie Laryea, they don’t even have an Alistair Johnston. They can win a million polite concacaf games at home, but when it gets serious with teams that want to play with an edge, they can’t get it done. This. If there's one takeaway I have from this tournament, it's that CONMEBOL takes CONCACAF'ing to a new level (and @JAVIERF may actually be right about a few things). Every game here is a total war, every challenge involves at least one foul (and it's up to the ref to figure out whether he wants to blow his whistle every time or just randomly call out some things), the futbol is completely secondary to just beating the other team any way you can. I daresay that experience with "the beautiful game" in Europe or in the Dallas FC academy does not prepare you for this. You're up against guys who play like wild animals, but touch them and they drop like a sniper victim - all this with 60,000 fans screaming at you, your teammates, the ref - AND your one job is to never ever lose your cool. (And don't give the ball away, maintain your structure, somehow string some passes together, etc.) I actually feel a bit sorry for Pulisic and co - they really can't cope, and in fact they seem to be getting traumatized rather than battle-hardened... Obinna, YorkRegionFan and JAVIERF 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InglewoodJack Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 1 hour ago, jonovision said: I just think handshakes are stupid and signify nothing under those circumstances. Nothing to be gained or lost from shaking or not. A tradition of no value. This sport doesn’t work if you agree to let what happens on the pitch affect what happens off it. Especially international games which have such less tangible value than club games- you ostensibly play because you’re proud of your country and want to prove, through peaceful means, that you’re better than another country at a thing. That’s it. You have hockey players drop the mits and wail on each other until they’re bloody and the crowd cheers most when the two guys give each other a tap on the way to the box to signify that it was a good fight. If you can show respect to a guy who was trying to smash your face in, you can give nominal respect to a guy who was jawing you all night. Handshakes are meaningless in the sense that it’s just a formal gesture, but the meaning behind ending a game with a sign of respect is important- you’re all professionals playing a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unnamed Trialist Posted July 2 Author Share Posted July 2 (edited) 21 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said: Not sure that tracks, big difference in supporting both rivals and just not having a consistently high level of rivalry. How many rivals do you maintain that level of animosity for? Again maybe because I have a lot of American friends and am really loath to see us define ourselves as not-American - I can't lift mine to my club rivals. Especially when them doing well benefits us so much. It is just plain non-sensical to go around telling a sports fan what teams they should like or not. It's intolerant of fan diversity. I mean, who the hell are you or anyone to tell another fan what teams to like, what a bunch of bloated arrogance. Nice little correlation on that other post about the kid who didn't align with your moral highground, the bully who would not shake hands, being in your angelic mom's special needs at school. Why not come straight out and say people with morals different from your own are retarded or whatever and skip the condescension? Edited July 2 by Unnamed Trialist WestHamCanadianinOxford 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frmr Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 5 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said: It is just plain non-sensical to go around telling a sports fan what teams they should like or not. It's intolerant of fan diversity. I mean, who the hell are you or anyone to tell another fan what teams to like, what a bunch of bloated arrogance. Who is doing that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadianbacons Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 5 minutes ago, GasPed said: This. If there's one takeaway I have from this tournament, it's that CONMEBOL takes CONCACAF'ing to a new level (and @JAVIERF may actually be right about a few things). Every game here is a total war, every challenge involves at least one foul (and it's up to the ref to figure out whether he wants to blow his whistle every time or just randomly call out some things), the futbol is completely secondary to just beating the other team any way you can. I daresay that experience with "the beautiful game" in Europe or in the Dallas FC academy does not prepare you for this. You're up against guys who play like wild animals, but touch them and they drop like a sniper victim - all this with 60,000 fans screaming at you, your teammates, the ref - AND your one job is to never ever lose your cool. (And don't give the ball away, maintain your structure, somehow string some passes together, etc.) I actually feel a bit sorry for Pulisic and co - they really can't cope, and in fact they seem to be getting traumatized rather than battle-hardened... This is bang on about this tournament. I feel like there is just as much kicking of opponents then of the ball. And it's usually both teams dishing out the violence equally. There is no flow in any of these games. I wish I could just watch some soccer and not UFC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unnamed Trialist Posted July 2 Author Share Posted July 2 1 minute ago, frmr said: Who is doing that? A ton of people on this board are not satisfied with saying they prefer the States to win, they want to berate and vilify those who prefer them losing. And looking down the nose at sports fans happy when their rivals lose. I just spent more time than I wanted at Calgary airport because of the WestJet strike, and saw a few funny t-shirts that had Oilers colours but in fact had some word, which I forgot, mocking their loss. I would have preferred them to win, and my Calgary contacts tell me fans are split: some would have been okay with beating Florida, but probably most Flames fans were glad they lost. But if you want to give some sermon about how all Albertans should love each other please tell me which corner of the Departure lounge I should go puke in. WestHamCanadianinOxford 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestHamCanadianinOxford Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 (edited) 36 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said: Much like Spurs losing to a premier league team, the states lost most of their points against Panama, so a wash for us, and the points they dropped against Uruguay, at least per ELO, are not significant enough to have bumped them ahead of 30th place Ghana, so not a big deal for us, especially considering how those rankings affect us specifically, ie single digit point differential if we beat the US, especially considering our only scheduled match against them is a friendly. Their success does marginally benefit us, but the benefit of their success pales in comparison to my enjoyment of seeing them fumble. Besides, a weak Concacaf has not prohibited the US from being successful. When the US were ranked 4th in the world in ‘06, we were ranked in the 80s, Mexico was in the low 20s, no clue what the other concacaf nations were up to, but they were in a much weaker conference than the one today. The US team that made the ‘02 quarters was also in a very weak concacaf. If we ever reach similar heights, it won’t matter what the USMNT is up to. At least not in a way that compares to the natural joy I get in seeing their rival embarrass themselves. Again not getting your Premier League stuff. 3 points is 3 points no matter the team. Over a full season, you taking care of your own business is what matters. The rival games are the best emotionally but that is seperate, often superior, joy and pain. I adjusted a couple sentence in the second paragraph. Personal feelings aren't valid arguments if I don't share them, at least to the degree you do. I respect your feelings but your analogy doesn't work because I don't feel the same about the States as you do. So trying to make it feel like it does against a club rival is not ever going to work logically or emotionally. Edited July 2 by WestHamCanadianinOxford Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestHamCanadianinOxford Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 1 minute ago, Unnamed Trialist said: It is just plain non-sensical to go around telling a sports fan what teams they should like or not. It's intolerant of fan diversity. I mean, who the hell are you or anyone to tell another fan what teams to like, what a bunch of bloated arrogance. Where did I tell you do anything? You expressed your emotional position, I asked a question and expressed mine. If anything you response is telling me I am not allowed to express mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red card Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 13 minutes ago, GasPed said: This. If there's one takeaway I have from this tournament, it's that CONMEBOL takes CONCACAF'ing to a new level (and @JAVIERF may actually be right about a few things). Every game here is a total war, every challenge involves at least one foul (and it's up to the ref to figure out whether he wants to blow his whistle every time or just randomly call out some things), the futbol is completely secondary to just beating the other team any way you can. I daresay that experience with "the beautiful game" in Europe or in the Dallas FC academy does not prepare you for this. You're up against guys who play like wild animals, but touch them and they drop like a sniper victim - all this with 60,000 fans screaming at you, your teammates, the ref - AND your one job is to never ever lose your cool. (And don't give the ball away, maintain your structure, somehow string some passes together, etc.) I actually feel a bit sorry for Pulisic and co - they really can't cope, and in fact they seem to be getting traumatized rather than battle-hardened... Cathal Kelly of the Globe expressed similar sentiments about Conmebol football: South American soccer is the most two-fisted on the planet. Forget about balletic Brazilians coming at you with midfield pirouettes. Think more Huns coming at you on a screaming pack of Steppe ponies. Chile recently won two Copas in a row with a style that might be described as 1970s Philadelphia Flyers Extra. North American footballers pride themselves on toughness. The world allows them to persist in this delusion because it’s kind of cute. Now, for the first time really, America & Friends would find out what full-contact football feels like when you’re playing for real. About Canada: The reason this country bombed out so badly at Qatar 2022 wasn’t the results. It was the way Canada lost that was the problem. It couldn’t adapt. It never settled. Good teams ease into major tournaments. Canada arrived on the threshold of nervous hysteria and got more wound up as the days passed. The less it adapted, the louder it talked and the more ridiculous it seemed. Canada’s problem wasn’t talent, or the federation that runs it, or how much the players are paid, or even coaching as such. It was approach. When you don’t have a Messi on your side, you don’t get to dictate how the game is played. You also don’t get to come into the room shouting and expect people to make way. There is confident and there is cocky. Two years ago, Canada was the wrong one. You wouldn’t call the Canada team we’ve seen over the past two weeks confident, exactly. It hasn’t been particularly well organized, and it certainly hasn’t been fluid. At best, it has trod water. The word to describe Canada after three games is adaptive. In international soccer, and South American-style international soccer in particular, there is no higher praise. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/article-after-world-cup-mis-steps-canada-show-an-ability-to-adapt-at-copa/ Trois Reds, kacbru, Ivan and 5 others 6 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 2 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said: A ton of people on this board are not satisfied with saying they prefer the States to win, they want to berate and vilify those who prefer them losing. And looking down the nose at sports fans happy when their rivals lose. ... But if you want to give some sermon about how all Albertans should love each other please tell me which corner of the Departure lounge I should go puke in. Ha! Circular room, Buddy. Swallow it! Swallow it I say! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frmr Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 17 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said: ... what a bunch of bloated arrogance ... 5 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said: A ton of people on this board are not satisfied with saying they prefer the States to win, they want to berate and vilify those who prefer them losing. And looking down the nose at sports fans happy when their rivals lose. I just spent more time than I wanted at Calgary airport because of the WestJet strike, and saw a few funny t-shirts that had Oilers colours but in fact had some word, which I forgot, mocking their loss. I would have preferred them to win, and my Calgary contacts tell me fans are split: some would have been okay with beating Florida, but probably most Flames fans were glad they lost. But if you want to give some sermon about how all Albertans should love each other please tell me which corner of the Departure lounge I should go puke in. jsmith, Metro, Cheeta and 3 others 2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestHamCanadianinOxford Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said: A ton of people on this board are not satisfied with saying they prefer the States to win, they want to berate and vilify those who prefer them losing. And looking down the nose at sports fans happy when their rivals lose. I just spent more time than I wanted at Calgary airport because of the WestJet strike, and saw a few funny t-shirts that had Oilers colours but in fact had some word, which I forgot, mocking their loss. I would have preferred them to win, and my Calgary contacts tell me fans are split: some would have been okay with beating Florida, but probably most Flames fans were glad they lost. But if you want to give some sermon about how all Albertans should love each other please tell me which corner of the Departure lounge I should go puke in. Honestly not sure what you are objecting to at this point. Maybe it's getting garbled over multiple posts but it feels like you are on another moralistic roll where you are telling people what they are thinking and how they shouldn't think that. Edited July 2 by WestHamCanadianinOxford Obinna 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 Canada advanced to the knock out round and the US didn't? FS1 panel. PegCityCam, Olympique_de_Marseille, narduch and 6 others 1 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PegCityCam Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 59 minutes ago, Metro said: A red card you say... I mean... Either way Bombito was extremely lucky not to get booked or even sent off. Raising your elbow up to eye level of an opponent and ripping it across is just dumb. Period. BearcatSA, Metro, Kent and 3 others 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestHamCanadianinOxford Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 (edited) 8 minutes ago, PegCityCam said: I mean... Either way Bombito was extremely lucky not to get booked or even sent off. Raising your elbow up to eye level of an opponent and ripping it across is just dumb. Period. It was not the smartest to pull his arms away so hard or hold his arms up there (below eye level though) and I agree in the match thread he was lucky - it would have been given as a red in a lot of the games and leagues I watch. However in context of this tournament, I also understand the decision that that contact is not red. Especially if it is without intent. Edited July 2 by WestHamCanadianinOxford Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metro Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 57 minutes ago, PegCityCam said: I mean... Either way Bombito was extremely lucky not to get booked or even sent off. Raising your elbow up to eye level of an opponent and ripping it across is just dumb. Period. All this tells us is that CONMEBOL Dark Arts includes photoshop. 😜 PegCityCam 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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