Copa America Other Matches + Group A

[jonovision]

9 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

 

A longer clip shows Pulisic tearing a strip off of the referee and telling him to join the Uruguayan celebrations. Not sure what shaking hands is meant to signify in such an instance.

[rick10]

1 hour ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

I would hope I would not.

If Alistair's was not a red, Bombito's certainly was not.  The other angle shows him freeing his arms and making minimal contact.  Less intent to contact than the head butt which was also pretty minimal contact in the end. 

Sorry thats a red. Only this forum believes is not a red which i understand but anywhere else outside of canada , everyone agrees is a red

just like the headbutt was a red too.

Also many argue the second yellow for the chilean player was not a yellow. 

We got somewhat lucky the last two games. Peru looked much better than canada when they had 11 and i m not sure we could beat chile if they had 11..

say whatever u want to say but canada hasnt looked too great after the argentina game ( first half)… Venezuela is not top tier in conmebol but they are going to be tougher than peru and chile who are bottom tier in the conmebol qualifiers

im hoping to see a better performance by canada , we have the players to play better . 

Edited Tuesday at 04:37 AM by rick10

[BearcatSA]

24 minutes ago, SthMelbRed said:

Crown Royal not good enough for you? 🍁

None in the house.  And yes, I would have had it instead 🙂🇨🇦

[Ivan]

1 hour ago, BearcatSA said:

If I get out East for a TFC game, we'll get together.  Plus, you're a very thoughtful and insightful veteran poster here.

I used to get to BC fairly regularly when my daughter lived in Vancouver and for work, but haven't been for a few years as she moved back to Ontario and I since retired. But yeah, that would be awesome.

[Joe MacCarthy]

 

[BearcatSA]

6 minutes ago, Ivan said:

I used to get to BC fairly regularly when my daughter lived in Vancouver and for work, but haven't been for a few years as she moved back to Ontario and I since retired. But yeah, that would be awesome.

Well, I am a retired guy like you, so I should be able to find time to get your way.

[Watchmen]

This result is exactly why the USSF should be on the phone immediately with CONMEBOL and begging for an expanded tournament (or at least an invite) in 4 years. There players and coaches constantly fall in to a false sense of unearned bravado by winning the Gold Cup/Nations League/friendlies. When it comes to real tournament play, they've fallen short.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

33 minutes ago, rick10 said:

Sorry thats a red. Only this forum believes is not a red which i understand but anywhere else outside of canada , everyone agrees is a red

just like the headbutt was a red too.

Also many argue the second yellow for the chilean player was not a yellow. 

We got somewhat lucky the last two games. Peru looked much better than canada when they had 11 and i m not sure we could beat chile if they had 11..

say whatever u want to say but canada hasnt looked too great after the argentina game ( first half)… Venezuela is not top tier in conmebol but they are going to be tougher than peru and chile who are bottom tier in the conmebol qualifiers

im hoping to see a better performance by canada , we have the players to play better . 

If you believe that both are red, and one was not called, then hard to not accept that there is valid reason to not call the other, no?  At least in the context of trying to argue the ref favoured one side. 

If we want to bring up other plays, the infamous VAR narrator who though that VAR was wrong in not giving the Bombito red also thought VAR was wrong in not giving a penalty to David.  Again really hard to say they were actively favouring Canada if that is not given.  

And you can couch it as other people's thinking, if you want, but the yellow on Laryea was clearly a yellow.  He was past the defender, with a clear line to make a positive offensive play and the player contacted him from behind.  Nothing more textbook. Trying to bring that up really weakens any attempt to look at things fairly. 

 

Edited Tuesday at 05:09 AM by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[Gian-Luca]

3 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

If you believe that both are red, and one was not called, then hard to not accept that there is valid reason to not call the other, no?  At least in the context of trying to argue the ref favoured one side. 

If we want to bring up other plays, the infamous VAR narrator who though that VAR was wrong in not giving the Bombito red also thought VAR was wrong in not giving a penalty to David.  Again really hard to say they were actively favouring Canada if that is not given.  

And you can couch as other people's thinking if you want but the yellow on Laryea was clearly a yellow.  He was past the defender, with a clear line to make a positive offensive play and the player contacted him from behind.  Nothing more textbook. Trying to bring that up really weakens any attempt to look at things fairly. 

 

One of the reasons why I don’t think the YouTube videos are authoritative is that there was not one released for the headbutt to Johnston (which was obviously malicious, unlike the Bombito play, which was obviously not - which even the VAR ref pointed out at the time). Why hasn’t there been a video released for that one when we know it was reviewed by VAR? It seems like they are picking and choosing what to release rather than because it is some sort of authoritative process. 

It will be interesting to see if they release one for the Uruguay goal, even though it is somewhat of a nothing burger given that the US needed to win, rather than draw 

[Watchmen]

This result is also an example of why Canada was smart to move on from Biello and on to Marsch before the tournament. It's not so much the results Marsch has gotten (though we're all pretty happy with it so far), but having a lame-duck manager for an important tournament is essentially useless. While we knew Biello wouldn't be the future for Canada, the US and Mexico now have to figure out what to do with their managers with only 2 years and mostly friendlies to fix it.

The WC is 2 years away. We saw last year how quickly things can change. But I feel much more confident about the current direction of the CMNT than the other two. September friendlies are going to be fascinating.

[The Ref]

1 hour ago, SthMelbRed said:

Not how the offside rule works.

Correct, rebounds from the keeper or woodwork does not cancel offsides.

 

[The Ref]

1 hour ago, DrunkOffPunch said:

Overall the reffing has been atrocious. Hopefully it’s better for the KO’s.

That includes the refs at the VAR booth.

 

[Watchmen]

I've been thinking about this tonight, and to sort of address each issue:

3 hours ago, phil03 said:

If this is going to happen I want, at the very least four things:

I. Concacaf getting equal power to Conmebol in organization and ESPECIALLY anything refs related. The bias against Concacaf teams was sickening. They need our money for Copa America and when it come to Copa Libertadores we both have more money and the two best leagues, so it's noting more than what the cards we have

There's probably room for improvement (especially on the VAR end), but at least some of this tournament seems to be simply poor officiating and not "bias".  CONCACAF can push for more officials, but it shouldn't be a deal breaker.

3 hours ago, phil03 said:

II. I want Conmebol to commit to help stamp out both the disrespect against CONCACAF teams in general and in particular the racist insults against black players from (small minorities of) fans of some Conmebol team.

You can't "stamp out disrespect of CONCACAF teams".  Respect is earned.  If you want the federations to more against racism/sexism/homophobia, I'm all for it.  Just keep in mind that CONCACAF pretty much tolerates vulgar Mexican chants, so they're not exactly in a position of strength to chastise other federations.

3 hours ago, phil03 said:

III. For Copa everyone needs to qualify, simple as that. No more automatic qualification for Conmebol teams. Honestly, if we had, say Curacao, Haiti or Suriname instead of Bolivia and Paraguay the level of the tournament would be higher.

This will essentially never happen.  Brazil and Argentina would never give up lucrative friendlies for a qualifying match, and the remainder would never risk losing out on a lucrative payday.  6 is a good number for CONCACAF to enter - the big teams aren't in danger of missing, but there's enough rotation amongst the next 4 (based on previous WCQ Hex) for it to be possible for quite a number of teams to make it and participate and Copa Qualifying could be a big deal (I'd replace the NL with it, but that's just me).  In case you're curious, from 1998 to 2018 the participants in the Hex were:

Mexico (6)

US (6)

Costa Rica (6)

Honduras (4)

Trinidad & Tobago (4)

Jamaica (3)

Panama (3)

El Salvador (2)

Canada (1)

Guatemala (1)

That's a good sample of the region (and Canada moving forward would likely finish in the Hex much more).

3 hours ago, phil03 said:

IV. No more rotation of hosts in South America, and instead a normal bidding process. This way we won't have to be subjected to Bolivia weaponizing altitude, for example.

The tournament has grown to the extent where it's not possible for some countries to solo host anymore anyway.  I don't know if they'll return to a "fixed" rotation now that everywhere has hosted it, but I also wouldn't want to see it locked in to Brazil/US/Argentina moving forward either.  It should be an opportunity for smaller countries to improve some of their infrastructure and show off to the world, even if they're doing it as part of a joint project with another country.

[Unnamed Trialist]

3 hours ago, rick10 said:

Sorry thats a red. Only this forum believes is not a red which i understand but anywhere else outside of canada , everyone agrees is a red

just like the headbutt was a red too.

Also many argue the second yellow for the chilean player was not a yellow. 

We got somewhat lucky the last two games. Peru looked much better than canada when they had 11 and i m not sure we could beat chile if they had 11..

say whatever u want to say but canada hasnt looked too great after the argentina game ( first half)… Venezuela is not top tier in conmebol but they are going to be tougher than peru and chile who are bottom tier in the conmebol qualifiers

im hoping to see a better performance by canada , we have the players to play better . 

Sorry, you're mistaken. The VAR official says "no va a pegar", that he had no intention of hitting. Which I agree with. 

No need to insult the board when a- an independent VAR disagreed and b-you could probably be an arrogant dick perfectly happily elsewhere. I can.

[Cadeau]

The big picture is Canada has been getting the calls whereas the US and Mexico haven't.

[JamboAl]

I fear that Dallas is when we get less than our fair share of calls.  I am not going to say that the refs have been anti-CONCACAF.  It’s just that Copa America is more like a pitched battle where anything goes and some referees can’t manage the game properly.  It’s like playing the best Honduras team in San Pedro Sula over and over again but with a less aggressive crowd.

[mpg_29]

American fans wanting their coach out is just more proof to me that most fans are emotional and irrational and cannot be taken seriously when it comes to a sober analysis. They always want a scapegoat. Berhaulter didn't punch a guy and get a red card, and that is what pretty much derailed their group stage.

[narduch]

7 minutes ago, mpg_29 said:

American fans wanting their coach out is just more proof to me that most fans are emotional and irrational and cannot be taken seriously when it comes to a sober analysis. They always want a scapegoat. Berhaulter didn't punch a guy and get a red card, and that is what pretty much derailed their group stage.

I think they would do better with a better manager.

But I also think their players aren't as good as the hype they get.

[costarg]

9 hours ago, VinceA said:

I hope he stays.

It's a possibility.  The USA fed has also proven to have its own healthy level of toxicity, nepotism and private club running through it.

[Kadenge]

8 hours ago, DrunkOffPunch said:

Overall the reffing has been atrocious. Hopefully it’s better for the KO’s.

The US blew it vs Panama and that's what got them knocked out. Even with a man down they went up 1-0 and then gave up 2 goals to a team they  consider significantly inferior yes?

[costarg]

9 hours ago, nolando said:

That's stoopid.  There is no way you can fit all those massive egos in one tiny American airport.

[costarg]

9 hours ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

I would hope I would not.

If Alistair's was not a red, Bombito's certainly was not.  The other angle shows him freeing his arms and making minimal contact.  Less intent to contact than the head butt which was also pretty minimal contact in the end. 

Also need to mention the Shaffini foul at the edge of the box.  No call.

[theaub]

22 minutes ago, mpg_29 said:

American fans wanting their coach out is just more proof to me that most fans are emotional and irrational and cannot be taken seriously when it comes to a sober analysis. They always want a scapegoat. Berhaulter didn't punch a guy and get a red card, and that is what pretty much derailed their group stage.

They have a soft team and a soft manager you can't have both and you can't get rid of all the players.

Edited Tuesday at 12:43 PM by theaub

[Cadeau]

18 minutes ago, costarg said:

It's a possibility.  The USA fed has also proven to have its own healthy level of toxicity, nepotism and private club running through it.

And don't they have to pay the women's coach the same as the men? That's pretty constraining.

[Cheeta]

29 minutes ago, narduch said:

I think they would do better with a better manager.

But I also think their players aren't as good as the hype they get.

They've looked really good at times in the past, coming together on the same page as it were, like in Nations League.  Would be glad to have more than one or two of their lads in our player pool.  Just couldn't get it together enough these past couple weeks.  It happens to everybody.

That said, i don't care how aggrieved you feel about this or that, not qualifying out of that group?  Gives you pause for thought while you're choking down a great big helping of crow.