Copa America Other Matches + Group A

[Sal333]

54 minutes ago, GasPed said:

If you had told me at the beginning of the tournament we'd be facing Venezuela in the quarterfinals I would've: 1) LOL'd; 2) Taken it in a heartbeat.

In the ELO rankings, Venezuela is  18th—Canada 32nd. I find the ELO ratings are more up-to-date than the FIFA ones.

[Sal333]

37 minutes ago, JBR said:

Did he even see the field?

Of course, he did. He got a panoramic view from the bench.

[DeRo_Is_King]

8 minutes ago, Sal333 said:

In the ELO rankings, Venezuela is  18th—Canada 32nd. I find the ELO ratings are more up-to-date than the FIFA ones.

Makes sense. Venezuela has been very impressive thus far. A 3-0 win over a team that forced us to play T&T in a playoff to qualify is kind of sounding alarm bells for me. This will not be an easy game.

Edited Monday at 02:47 AM by DeRo_Is_King

[kacbru]

4 minutes ago, DeRo_Is_King said:

Makes sense. Venezuela has been very impressive thus far. A 3-0 win over a team that forced us to play T&T in a playoff to qualify is kind of signalling alarm bells for me. This will not be an easy game.

As their WCQ record shows, (2W, 3D, 1L) they are a better team than Chile and Peru.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

12 minutes ago, Sal333 said:

Of course, he did. He got a panoramic view from the bench.

All these things may be true but we have to admit he is looking pretty gangsta as of late.

[eramosat]

it's a 50 - 50 proposition before the match starts

the players will then provide their own opinions.

I hope Canada makes their best showing so far, which wouldn't be demanding much.  We'll see how Marsch figures it all out!

[JBR]

14 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

All these things may be true but we have to admit he is looking pretty gangsta as of late.

Makes sense. He is from 'dem mean streets of Georgetown Ontario

[gigi riva]

Adios Mexico . I am loving the fact that Canada is kind of ruining the USA / Mexico parade , at least so far.   For many years I had to witness both of those Countries  get easy draws and get multiple calls go in there favour   during Gold Cups , Now that they are facing harder competion they arefailing 

[Neil R.]

17 minutes ago, Sal333 said:

In the ELO rankings, Venezuela is  18th—Canada 32nd. I find the ELO ratings are more up-to-date than the FIFA ones.

Quite the discrepancy on Venezuela between ELO and FIFA rankings. At the time of the draw, Venezuela was in Pot 3 (ranked 49th in FIFA). They're even lower now as of the FIFA update on June 20th (54th), yet are 18th with ELO.

ELO has Venezuela's all-time goals for and against at 498 (GF) and 838 (GA). They must have really improved recently because you'd think those numbers would be flipped for a team in the top 20.

[kacbru]

Just now, JBR said:

Makes sense. He is from 'dem mean streets of Georgetown Ontario

Poor Papa Flores.  I hope he's ok.

[CanadianSoccerFan]

19 minutes ago, Neil R. said:

Quite the discrepancy on Venezuela between ELO and FIFA rankings. At the time of the draw, Venezuela was in Pot 3 (ranked 49th in FIFA). They're even lower now as of the FIFA update on June 20th (54th), yet are 18th with ELO.

ELO has Venezuela's all-time goals for and against at 498 (GF) and 838 (GA). They must have really improved recently because you'd think those numbers would be flipped for a team in the top 20.

Venezuela up to 36 in the live FIFA ranking
https://football-ranking.com/fifa-rankings

[canadasoccer20]

I can't believe we live in a time that we are superior to Mexico, losing by only 1 goal back in the day would be considered a decent result for us. All these CONCACAF tournaments such as u20s and Gold Cups and them always being the top dog with the US. Love that it seems like the tides have turned and not only for the short term.

[gigi riva]

31 minutes ago, canadasoccer20 said:

I can't believe we live in a time that we are superior to Mexico, losing by only 1 goal back in the day would be considered a decent result for us. All these CONCACAF tournaments such as u20s and Gold Cups and them always being the top dog with the US. Love that it seems like the tides have turned and not only for the short term.

Hopefully we can continue  this  and get better especially get better in youth tournaments 

[74 Whitecap]

1 hour ago, Neil R. said:

Quite the discrepancy on Venezuela between ELO and FIFA rankings. At the time of the draw, Venezuela was in Pot 3 (ranked 49th in FIFA). They're even lower now as of the FIFA update on June 20th (54th), yet are 18th with ELO.

ELO has Venezuela's all-time goals for and against at 498 (GF) and 838 (GA). They must have really improved recently because you'd think those numbers would be flipped for a team in the top 20.

They were the whipping boy and laughing-stock of CONMEBOL for many a qualifying cycle, but not this time. Some parallels between Venezuela and Canada in that respect, except their past performance is perhaps even more filled with bad results than ours, if you can believe that.

[Obinna]

I know we like to clown Flores, but seriously think about it.....maybe choosing Mexico was the easier path to National team football for him?

Would he have made our roster for Copa America? Possibly his recent good form for Tigres could have helped, but we left players like Jayden Nelson and Theo Corbeanu at home.....I am not sure Flores is clear of either of them to be honest.

[Sal333]

8 hours ago, Neil R. said:

Quite the discrepancy on Venezuela between ELO and FIFA rankings. At the time of the draw, Venezuela was in Pot 3 (ranked 49th in FIFA). They're even lower now as of the FIFA update on June 20th (54th), yet are 18th with ELO.

ELO has Venezuela's all-time goals for and against at 498 (GF) and 838 (GA). They must have really improved recently because you'd think those numbers would be flipped for a team in the top 20.

The problem with FiFA's algorithms is that they do not properly account for teams like Canada, Venezuela, and Morocco that have made huge leaps in the last 3-4 years. ELO does a better job of reflecting more recent results.

[Corazon]

1 hour ago, Sal333 said:

The problem with FiFA's algorithms is that they do not properly account for teams like Canada, Venezuela, and Morocco that have made huge leaps in the last 3-4 years. ELO does a better job of reflecting more recent results.

Belgium still sitting in the Top 3 in FIFA. 😂 

[CanadianSoccerFan]

Interesting twitter thread detailing Mexico's problems. The economic strength of Liga MX has created an inflated market for Mexican players, preventing them from leaving heir comfort zone.

 

 

[Markoaleks]

4 hours ago, Obinna said:

I know we like to clown Flores, but seriously think about it.....maybe choosing Mexico was the easier path to National team football for him?

Would he have made our roster for Copa America? Possibly his recent good form for Tigres could have helped, but we left players like Jayden Nelson and Theo Corbeanu at home.....I am not sure Flores is clear of either of them to be honest.

Had he and Papi played their cards right

our Georgetown lad would have been in Qatar for us - market was different then for him 

[CanadaFan123]

Of course Flores would be in our squad, let’s not be daft. 

What was the deal with the non call on the Ecuador player who back heeled it onto his arm in the box? Thought for sure that was a pk and yet he calls one that wasn’t.

Same ref as our match against Peru* and same incompetence it seems. 

Edited Monday at 02:38 PM by CanadaFan123

[costarg]

12 hours ago, BearcatSA said:

I want neither Mexico nor "U-S-A!" to make the knockout stages.  

That would be terrific, for me at least.

I wonder if CONCACAF underachieving (or overachieving) affects the chances we get invited or host again?  This tournament is too fun, would love this to become regular.  But I feel the balance is delicate.  They don't want the guests cooking in their kitchen.

[CanadaFan123]

I can’t say I agree with this at all. Same ref who missed the red for the headbutt. In the euros this is a pk all day.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

2 hours ago, Sal333 said:

The problem with FiFA's algorithms is that they do not properly account for teams like Canada, Venezuela, and Morocco that have made huge leaps in the last 3-4 years. ELO does a better job of reflecting more recent results.

Not sure. 

 

Worth remembering Venezuela were ranked 25th - 4 years ago.  Also they have just climbed close to 60 points and 18 places in the FIFA live rankings.  Just because the press rightly uses the official one that come out at intervals, doesn't mean their 3 wins against higher ranked opponents wont be reflected soon.  I guess the point is their ups and downs have been reflected and they have not made huge leaps any time but very recently. 

 

Morocco are 12th, that's basically not unfair.  A great World Cup and a strong qualifying run-in got them there.  But they are back to doing what they have for a while. Generally beating the low-ranked African nations and sometimes losing to the good ones.  A couple (semi) recent loses to South Africa mean that pushing them higher probably would be unfair. And beating Brazil in a friendly is worth less.  And the algorithm reflects that.  

 

Canada - we are biased but the States and Mexico are too high of course that is actually to our advantage because any wins are great and losses hurt less. But we aren't being ranked on our potential or our squad talent, we are being ranked on our results, a lot of which have been not great. 

 

 

I honestly don't know ELO at all, I did a deep dive into the FIFA formula when it looked like it would really matter to us.  Love to see a breakdown on what really matters with the former but generally I am okay that rankings don't just reflect the very recent past, that would be silly volatile. 

[Obinna]

41 minutes ago, CanadaFan123 said:

Of course Flores would be in our squad, let’s not be daft. 

What was the deal with the non call on the Ecuador player who back heeled it onto his arm in the box? Thought for sure that was a pk and yet he calls one that wasn’t.

Same ref as our match against Peru* and same incompetence it seems. 

Who would you drop?

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

1 hour ago, Corazon said:

Belgium still sitting in the Top 3 in FIFA. 😂 

Easy to point to but, they have had a really good record - not in big tournaments.  They didn't lose in 2023 over 10 games. Most of those were in Euro qualifying which rightly count for a bit.  In 2024 before the Euros they had draws to Ireland and England as their worst results. In fact they had not lost since Morocco in the World Cup. 

The formula can't completely ignore the games we don't see.  

You also have to look at who's chasing them. Ranking points- wise, since the lasting ranking every team below them down to 10th have done worse - save Spain.   We are talking -  Brazil, England, Portugal, Netherlands, Croatia, Italy.  Remember the rankings don't punish you for going out, just losing or drawing against lesser ranked teams.