The Netherlands vs Canada - Thursday, June 6th - 2:45pm Eastern / 11:45am Pacific - Rotterdam

[gator]

1 hour ago, Mihairokov said:

The reality is that it's always going to be tough to get top teams to travel to North America based on geography and cost. It's difficult to think of reasons for why UEFA or AFC teams would travel here to play us/USA/MEX when they could likely go elsewhere for far less and IMO better games. Do we think Uruguay were impressed by Mexico's antics this week? 

I'm not really worried about losing too badly. We never normally play these countries and it gives us a good opportunity to look inwardly on our program for places to improve. This time two years ago we were arguing over friendlies versus Iran and Panama. This time three years ago we were playing Aruba and Caymans in Florida, in Haiti in front of the military, and now we're playing the best teams in the world. Things change fast. Teams will want to play us if we're good. 

 

Good post! As @youllneverwalkalone correctly points out, being a host country in 26 will definitely be to our advantage for hosting future friendlies, the list of opponents in 94 was impressive and we were far from good but I think it is telling how few of those top sides have come over to play us since! My point in the post I made above is that if we prove to not be a good opponent for the top teams will they be more reluctant to host us, these teams and their fans want to see competitive matches not guaranteed wins which at this point unfortunately we are providing! The teams coming over to play us leading up to 26 is more due to venues than the level of competition we can provide such as in 94! BTW I hope after Sunday this post provides a certain amount of embarrassment to me!😀

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

9 minutes ago, ballerz said:

I give Jesse Marsch a free pass for the night. But the real test is how reacts against France. We now have a clear answer to a couple of things from both the Herdman and Biello era, as well as the Dutch game. We can’t high press against quality opponents, we can’t play a two men midfield against good teams, and we can’t play from the back. I don’t care about the score in Bordeaux, please show us something different, show us a team that can fight for a result, show us adaptability. 

I take the opposite view of the bolded, we were in the game and created chances via it when we did it effectively.  

It fell apart after the subs and especially after they scored.  

But to let top ten teams have uncontested possession and runs at you in your own half is just as dangerous, while neutering our best players.

[BearcatSA]

I think Cornelius and Bombito need an extended run of starts as the CB pairing, preferably with the keeper seen as the number 1 but I sense that we might see Crepeau in Bordeaux.  Continuity is a key for a back line, especially the centre.  Frankly, in a number of his NT performances during and since Qatar, I have found Johnston wanting at times, especially in possession but also with marking (like on the first goal yesterday).  His opposing LB, Spurs' Van de Ven, apart from losing Larin on his missed chance, was not troubled by either Buchanan or Johnston, offensively nor defensively, and he is more of a quasi fullback/LCB type.  If Laryea gets back to full speed, I think he can create a good competition for that place when we head into fall matches.

Zator is "just a guy," a Euro based player for this window but not one I would expect to be seeing down the road.  Looked wanting in possession and pace.

[Bigandy]

3 hours ago, Sal333 said:

I promised myself to give Marsch until the Mexico game in September before I started criticizing his inane tactics but posts like yours make it impossible. Larin is our top scorer and you want to sit him so you can implement an unsuitable game strategy for our players. Even with Millar on the pitch, in the latter part of the first half we were in over our heads and Marsch made no adjustments in the break. In the 2nd half our forwards were out of the game. Spent and useless. When you can make David look like he could barely play in the CPL, there's something wrong with your system. Our players are square pegs and Marsch's gameboard has only round holes. It only ever had round holes.

I’m so confused.  So you hate that Marsch plays a 4-4-2. Suggesting a 1 striker formation makes it impossible for you to stay quiet.  So does that leave a 3-5-2 as the formation you want.  
 

 

perhaps, the Dutch with some of the best defenders in the world, is the reason David was nullified and no system solves that.  

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

3 minutes ago, BearcatSA said:

I think Cornelius and Bombito need an extended run of starts as the CB pairing, preferably with the keeper seen as the number 1 but I sense that we might see Crepeau in Bordeaux.  Continuity is a key for a back line, especially the centre.  Frankly, in a number of his NT performances during and since Qatar, I have found Johnston wanting at times, especially in possession but also with marking (like on the first goal yesterday).  His opposing LB, Spurs' Van de Ven, apart from losing Larin on his missed chance, was not troubled by either Buchanan or Johnston, offensively nor defensively, and he is more of a quasi fullback/LCB type.  If Laryea gets back to full speed, I think he can create a good competition for that place when we head into fall matches.

Zator is "just a guy," a Euro based player for this window but not one I would expect to be seeing down the road.  Looked wanting in possession and pace.

It seemed our plan was to let the centre back playing as a left back have the ball and attack the better passing but slower Blind.  (Classic Marsch selective press if that is what was happening). Buchanan was consistently tucked in for instance (not the same for Millar who pressed his fullback).

VdV beat Johnston regularly - he has world class pace- but I think the strategy worked pretty well  because his final balls were a centre backs.  The goals ultimately didn't come from there.

[Kadenge]

This game reminded me a bit of the Croatia game where we looked good for the first 20+ mins and then caved in. A bit longer this time but you could see the Dutch taking over from the 35' onwards. Other than the subs, we started to give the ball away with poor/lazy passes and despite the performances of Kone & Staq, our midfield got swamped. We have to  drop a striker and add a CM. Our squad still lacks enough players that face high quality players with their clubs/leagues. Everything happens at a much faster pace and the passing/touches are precise as is the movement without the ball. It's like chasing shadows. We badly need Kone to move up to a higher league and elevate his level as he has the most potential of our CMs. Hopefully Cornelius and Bombito can do the same. 

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

2 hours ago, Bigandy said:

I’m so confused.  So you hate that Marsch plays a 4-4-2. Suggesting a 1 striker formation makes it impossible for you to stay quiet.  So does that leave a 3-5-2 as the formation you want.  
 

 

perhaps, the Dutch with some of the best defenders in the world, is the reason David was nullified and no system solves that.  

The system worked for David a handful of times, we made them cough it up and he ended up with it in good areas. Off the top of my head,  once we couldn't find the pass to make it count and once David kicked into touch instead of making his one on one defender do any work.  

We had 3 early-ish chances were we looked nervous in the final ball:  that, Millar, and Larin, again from memory.

Edited June 7 by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

5 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

This game reminded me a bit of the Croatia game where we looked good for the first 20+ mins and then caved in. A bit longer this time but you could see the Dutch taking over from the 35' onwards. Other than the subs, we started to give the ball away with poor/lazy passes and despite the performances of Kone & Staq, our midfield got swamped. We have to  drop a striker and add a CM. Our squad still lacks enough players that face high quality players with their clubs/leagues. Everything happens at a much faster pace and the passing/touches are precise as is the movement without the ball. It's like chasing shadows. We badly need Kone to move up to a higher league and elevate his level as he has the most potential of our CMs. Hopefully Cornelius and Bombito can do the same. 

I was greatly impressed with him, makes his inconsistent club form that much more frustrating.

But he and Eustaquio still need another in there to be given a chance/step up even more.

[PastPros]

10 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

This game reminded me a bit of the Croatia game where we looked good for the first 20+ mins and then caved in. A bit longer this time but you could see the Dutch taking over from the 35' onwards. 

My thoughts exactly. Like Croatia, they adapted, and took control. We could not respond or keep up with their level of play.

[Bigandy]

21 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

It seemed our plan was to let the centre back playing as a left back have the ball and attack the better passing but slower Blind.  (Classic Marsch selective press if that is what was happening). Buchanan was consistently tucked in for instance (not the same for Millar who pressed his fullback).

VdV beat Johnston regularly - he has world class pace- but I think the strategy worked pretty well  because his final balls were a centre backs.  The goals ultimately didn't come from there.

I think Buchanan tucking in was to nullify blinds passing. He’s arguably the best cb in the world at progressive passing base on his stats. He loves to bait pressers to come to him and then play around them. 

[jhoops__]

Kone is a good old fashioned thoroughbred.   Not sure we have another player with his upside.   Still a little raw in certain areas but man he’s a talent.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

4 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

I think Buchanan tucking in was to nullify blinds passing. He’s arguably the best cb in the world at progressive passing base on his stats. He loves to bait pressers to come to him and then play around them. 

But we did catch him a handful of times, just didn't make it count.

A positive I would take if this is our system going forward.

[Sal333]

3 hours ago, InglewoodJack said:

Wait, between Larin and David you think *David* is the guy that looked like he couldn’t play in the CPL? I hate the “our striker didn’t score or take a shot but did the little things well- great game” thing as much as anyone, but Larin spent all game doing cardio. He has 1 goal in the last two years for Canada. *Jacob Shaffelburg* has been a bigger scoring threat for us since the last World Cup than Larin has. He has a lot of rope with Canada given the resume but we can’t keep putting him out there and playing a man down.

I said our forwards were spent and useless. That would include Larin. Marsch's system is totally bunkers. I can see trying that system with a club team but on a national team. Among the many things wrong with Marsch's thinking player conditioning is one of the problems. In his presser he said he would look into what went wrong and he mentioned conditioning as a possibility. Now if these players are not in condition for his system today what makes him think they'll get into condition in a month or six months? They have their club careers to worry about and if they're in condition for their clubs then maybe Marsch should revisit his plans. I hate to say this but I see two years of misery for this NT. Marsch is a one trick pony. And it's not the score that makes me say that. It's how totally ineffective our forwards were. OUR fucking forwards - the strength of our team.

[Sal333]

51 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

I’m so confused.  So you hate that Marsch plays a 4-4-2. Suggesting a 1 striker formation makes it impossible for you to stay quiet.  So does that leave a 3-5-2 as the formation you want.  
 

 

perhaps, the Dutch with some of the best defenders in the world, is the reason David was nullified and no system solves that.  

Why are you putting words into my mouth? I never said a thing about formation. 4-4-2 or 3-5-2 or 9-1 is not the problem. The problem is how Marsch wants his team to plan within those formations.

[BearcatSA]

1 hour ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

VdV beat Johnston regularly - he has world class pace- but I think the strategy worked pretty well  because his final balls were a centre backs.  The goals ultimately didn't come from there.

The fact that we posed no attacking threat down that side and Van de Ven was posing one (his run and cross leading to a great chance) meant that they didn't need to allocate a player over there to provide extra support, especially defensively.

[InglewoodJack]

30 minutes ago, Sal333 said:

I said our forwards were spent and useless. That would include Larin. Marsch's system is totally bunkers. I can see trying that system with a club team but on a national team. Among the many things wrong with Marsch's thinking player conditioning is one of the problems. In his presser he said he would look into what went wrong and he mentioned conditioning as a possibility. Now if these players are not in condition for his system today what makes him think they'll get into condition in a month or six months? They have their club careers to worry about and if they're in condition for their clubs then maybe Marsch should revisit his plans. I hate to say this but I see two years of misery for this NT. Marsch is a one trick pony. And it's not the score that makes me say that. It's how totally ineffective our forwards were. OUR fucking forwards - the strength of our team.

We just played the best opponent our program has ever played (full disrespect to Belgium and Croatia, btw) and we got smacked after like 2 years of program stagnation. I think a bit of a longer grace period for Marschball is in order here? He's been with these guys for like 5 days- conditioning could definitely be an issue.

 

[InglewoodJack]

3 hours ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

I hate this.  To make a rational point, I feel like I am running down a player I have been a fan of for years. 

That said - The 5 assists (you should credit him with another goal as well) did not come in a league/against opposition that's superior to Shaffellburg's MLS. I have watched the Swiss league.

Shaffellburg's 2 goals have come in more important situations for Canada, but I don't think he should be a lock.  I don't believe his sub on was made with the result in mind, and that said, it was a poor decision - with the result in mind.

To get belatedly to your first point. I guess do we know he - back to Theo- wants to be considered at this point? It's been two years.  Maybe he wants to deal with whatever his club issues are first and it's not come yet.

I hate it too- half my posts are tearing down players I like to make a point. You find Switzerland is below MLS? I've watched more swiss games than (non-Montreal) MLS games, but there's plenty of quality over there and a lot of poor teams in MLS. On that note though, one of shaffelburg's best games, when he scored 1G/1A was against a team from the Dominican which is token opposition. Regardless, point I'm making is you have two guys with ~okay production in ~okay leagues, one guy (Shaff) is getting all these calls and the other gets none, even though he's younger, plays (now) for a better club, has more potential etc. Though, to your last point, that's also a possibility. He barely does play for Canada when he does get called up, so maybe he told them to pass on him unless he's going to play significantly because he still hasn't solidified his spot at any club. Feel like his motor and physique would speak quite well to what Marsch wants out of this team though.

[BearcatSA]

21 hours ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

I was greatly impressed with him, makes his inconsistent club form that much more frustrating.

But he and Eustaquio still need another in there to be given a chance/step up even more.

I didn't like his hero run from the edge of our penalty area after we stopped an attack and then De Ligt stuffed him and put us our back foot again.  You might get away with that in some leagues but not against elite opponents.

I saw a fair number of what I would call naive decision making plays by some guys that I think they get away with at their respective current club levels but not against this calibre of opponent hungry for success at the Euros.  As mentioned, playing regularly in top competitions with better echelon clubs is needed for the likes of Koné.

Edited June 8 by BearcatSA

[mpg_29]

1 hour ago, Kadenge said:

This game reminded me a bit of the Croatia game where we looked good for the first 20+ mins and then caved in. A bit longer this time but you could see the Dutch taking over from the 35' onwards. Other than the subs, we started to give the ball away with poor/lazy passes and despite the performances of Kone & Staq, our midfield got swamped. We have to  drop a striker and add a CM. Our squad still lacks enough players that face high quality players with their clubs/leagues. Everything happens at a much faster pace and the passing/touches are precise as is the movement without the ball. It's like chasing shadows. We badly need Kone to move up to a higher league and elevate his level as he has the most potential of our CMs. Hopefully Cornelius and Bombito can do the same. 

This view is based on the the assumption we have the ability and skill to build up a play from the back against top competition and we just "have to figure out the middle". I am not sure we do have that ability with our depth...nor anytime in the near future.

We may need a much more simple and direct style against top teams.

Edited June 7 by mpg_29

[Unnamed Trialist]

2 hours ago, shorty said:

In this particular case, Brym makes sense for his home location, in the same way Swiderski makes sense in France to join the training camp. 

In a general sense, I prefer Oluwaseyi and Corbeanu and JRR to Brym, certainly to see what they could do in comparison to Brym, but just comparing Brym to Brym I actually was more impressed with his limited minutes yesterday than with past appearances. 

Brym makes sense as a training body and as a deference to him playing in Rotterdam, you are right. But it made us look laughing stock by playing him. The fans, mostly Feyenoord fans, saw that and our credit tumbled immediately. 

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

1 hour ago, BearcatSA said:

The fact that we posed no attacking threat down that side and Van de Ven was posing one (his run and cross leading to a great chance) meant that they didn't need to allocate a player over there to provide extra support, especially defensively.

Not sure what you are saying.

We had a handful of threats in that corner by taking the ball away - the point of the system.  We then just did nothing with the ball - David's poor touch across the end line for instance.

I think your "great chance" was an okay chance because he actually missed all the guys in the box.

The best chances they had in that half where free kicks and up the middle.

Second half, Millar coming off changed a lot and with Davies cheating (and maybe hurting?) Frimpong starting beating him with regularity.

They didn't attack that side very much again.

Edited June 7 by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[Corazon]

1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Brym makes sense as a training body and as a deference to him playing in Rotterdam, you are right. But it made us look laughing stock by playing him. The fans, mostly Feyenoord fans, saw that and our credit tumbled immediately. 

I think you’re making this a lot worse than it is.  And I get that you despise Brym and are upset about Corbeanu not getting the call, but I think what you’re saying is nonsense and there is completely no proof to suggest that the Dutch fans who came to watch their National program feel that way.  You’re suggesting that we are the laughing stock of Rotterdam and Dutch fans because we fielded a player from the 2nd best club from Rotterdam in the Eredivisie?  I don’t care if he was our worst player out there or not, I’m going to disagree completely with that statement.  Whether Brym deserved to play or not, this feels more like you’re building this story in your head to help reinforce your hate for the guy. 

Edited June 7 by Corazon

[youllneverwalkalone]

I definitely think there's a conditioning issue and that this was a Herdman weakness and is a Concacaf weakness. MLS (and Liga MX) players are not as fit as players from top European leagues. 

[Bigandy]

1 hour ago, Sal333 said:

Why are you putting words into my mouth? I never said a thing about formation. 4-4-2 or 3-5-2 or 9-1 is not the problem. The problem is how Marsch wants his team to plan within those formations.

Ah. My mistake. Since you replied to my original comment about 442, I thought we were talking about formation.  It seems you have a hate for Marsch and this debate may not be very tactically based and more about “how bad Marsch is”.   Perhaps it’s best to not continue?  

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

57 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Brym makes sense as a training body and as a deference to him playing in Rotterdam, you are right. But it made us look laughing stock by playing him. The fans, mostly Feyenoord fans, saw that and our credit tumbled immediately. 

You are world-class at putting thoughts in the heads of fans (and other posters and coaches and players and agents and the tea lady probably) if you are trying make others think the way you do. 

 

I know we are all punchy from getting punched around yesterday but why would any Canadian adult care one iota what Feyenoords fans think of us.  We should be doing what is best for our national team, not worrying about their club side fans.