Andrei Dan Dumitru

[InglewoodJack]

14 minutes ago, costarg said:

CANMNT in 2018 does not equal CANMNT 2024. 

The depth was nowhere near what it is now.  Have you forgotten we were regularly calling players from Unattached FC?  And they were playing!

An 18 year old in the Liverpool system in 2018 was a very big deal for us.  We can't compare that to Diallo or Abaneh.

Bombito can be debatable.  You're doing Kone disservice on this one.  We were raving about his performances.  Everyone was predicting he'd be in EU in a matter of months.  Herdman and Marinaro were not Oracles.  

It is a big deal- that was also peak Liverpool too, no doubt. I’m just saying that we have had players at top academies before, we currently do, and many are not very good. I admittedly was not tracking players in 2018 to the level of knowing players who never made it, which academy they were at, all I’m saying is that bringing in Liam Millar takes more than looking him up, seeing he’s at Liverpool and calling him up. Kid had to actually be good, something many of our academy guys are not. 

For Kone, that’s precisely my point. *We* hyped him, but we hype everyone and we’re all obsessive so we catch these guys as soon as they’re a bleep on the radar. If Herdman had called up TJ Tahid last year, we’d say that of course it’s an obvious pick, we’ve tracked him for years now, he’s a future star! Same for JMR when he was being looked at as a $20M transfer to Liverpool. That said, Marinaro has recently claimed that Sirois will be in Europe by end of season and J-A Vilsaint will become the biggest talent to have ever played in Montreal. I have my doubts on both of those claims.  There are many extremely hyped players, a guy like Herdman has to cut through the noise and identify the guys who are actually future stars and which will come back down to earth. I think he’s done a good job at that. That said, I don’t put much stock into Dumitriu being the next Kone just because Herdman says so. If he thinks he is, he’ll play him, and we’ll see that in his game. I put less stock into what Herdman says and more into what he actually does which are often two different things. 

[reggietfc]

8 minutes ago, costarg said:

Jeez, not my battle, but how do you throw out "TFC hate" based on a guys comment on what Herdman did while he was at CANMNT?  WTH is going on with this board lately?

alot of his previous post are anti tfc....way to much mls vs cpl drama on here these days

[RS]

Kone was named to Canada's World Cup qualifying roster three weeks after making his professional debut.

If that's not having faith in a non-established young player then almost no national team head coach on Earth has ever done so.

[Sal333]

4 hours ago, Bigandy said:

. I don't think any manager has brought in anywhere near the talent that JH has. 

Thank you!

[costarg]

3 hours ago, RS said:

Kone was named to Canada's World Cup qualifying roster three weeks after making his professional debut.

If that's not having faith in a non-established young player then almost no national team head coach on Earth has ever done so.

Would like to add some important detail here.....

That roster came out March 20th.  By then Kone had played 3 full matches in CONCACAF Champions League with 1 goal vs Santos Laguna.

He also played in 4 matches (224 minutes) in MLS with 1 goal and 3 assists.

All this as a rookie 19 year old midfielder.  But ya, Herdman saw something that no one else did. 

As predicted by media and the fans, he was playing in the Championship within 12 months. 

Edited May 28 by costarg

[RS]

Why does Herdman need to “see something that no one else did” or go to “some secret underground club” in order to receive justified credit for taking a chance on a teenager three weeks into his career and putting him in a World Cup qualifier in Costa Rica? That bar you’ve set seems ridiculously high.

National team managers don’t have nearly as much leeway to make big gambles in the same way that club managers do, so throwing in a 19 year old who made his professional debut less than a month earlier still takes a leap of faith regardless of how obvious you insist his inclusion was.

[Bison44]

This is a strange convo.  Sure you can give a national team manager "kudos" for bringing guys in.  But having talent mature in pro clubs down the street from your office isnt really something you should get credit for.  Kamal and Johnston had pretty solid rookie years, and Buchanon had a 2nd year MLS breakdout.  Calling them up really is just a normal thing. Kudos for being ahead on the curve with Kone and Bombito, but those guys were coming, no doubt about it.  

Getting players to commit, buy into the program (Cav, Hoilett) or get duals to sign on the dotted line (Arfield, Eustaq, Vitoria,Ugbo) or not (mitovic, sigur, koleosho, aidan morris, flores) theres where that coach can really turn the tide.  and even then there are so many weird specific factors that go into those decisions...who knows where credit should go eh? 

[costarg]

14 minutes ago, RS said:

Why does Herdman need to “see something that no one else did” or go to “some secret underground club” in order to receive justified credit for taking a chance on a teenager three weeks into his career and putting him in a World Cup qualifier in Costa Rica? That bar you’ve set seems ridiculously high.

National team managers don’t have nearly as much leeway to make big gambles in the same way that club managers do, so throwing in a 19 year old who made his professional debut less than a month earlier still takes a leap of faith regardless of how obvious you insist his inclusion was.

Point is, I don't feel he took much of a chance on anything.  Kone clearly belonged.  The comment people are replying and reacting to was "JH had a real good eye for spotting young high end talent".  It might be the case for some guys, but I feel in Kone's case Herdman did what everyone who was watching Kone expected.  The only people clutching their pearls were people who hadn't seen him play yet.  He called him up and gave him 55 minutes over two matches, which is very fair.  He was already playing against high-level opponents and doing astonishingly well, he was bossing the midfield against Liga MX and MLS teams while contributing offensively.  Herdman surely saw the matches and must've read the reports, everyone knew he'd be a record transfer for CFM in a matter of months.  His stats, poise and skill were remarkable in those 7 matches and the rest of the season, it wasn't a fluke.  

I'm hard on Herdman for some things, yet I've also been very vocal about qualities he does possess.  I'm a huge fan of his and ridiculously appreciative of what he's achieved with Canada Soccer and what he's doing with TFC, but I also understand his limitations.  I won't shower blind praise on him for things he didn't do.

[Bigandy]

3 minutes ago, costarg said:

Point is, I don't feel he took much of a chance on anything.  Kone clearly belonged.  The comment people are replying and reacting to was "JH had a real good eye for spotting young high end talent".  It might be the case for some guys, but I feel in Kone's case Herdman did what everyone who was watching Kone expected.  The only people clutching their pearls were people who hadn't seen him play yet.  He called him up and gave him 55 minutes over two matches, which is very fair.  He was already playing against high-level opponents and doing astonishingly well, he was bossing the midfield against Liga MX and MLS teams while contributing offensively.  Herdman surely saw the matches and must've read the reports, everyone knew he'd be a record transfer for CFM in a matter of months.  His stats, poise and skill were remarkable in those 7 matches and the rest of the season, it wasn't a fluke.  

I'm hard on Herdman for some things, yet I've also been very vocal about qualities he does possess.  I'm a huge fan of his and ridiculously appreciative of what he's achieved with Canada Soccer and what he's doing with TFC, but I also understand his limitations.  I won't shower blind praise on him for things he didn't do.

The herdman criticism is very dutch-esque logic (i'm dutch and heavily involved in the community).

Logic 1: "JH is bad at spotting talent because he did the obvious"
-This logic doesn't prove he is bad and non-sense. Very dutch to criticize someone for doing something right just because the "armchair brigade" says its obvious.

Logic 2: If herdman identified the obvious players and also did some not obvious players then he is good. 

Logic 3: If herdman misses the obvious players and not obvious players then he is bad. 


Logic 1 is nonsense. 

Logic 2 is sound and true IMO.
-He got the obvious guys and did it at very young ages. Kone, David, Bombito(was it obvious because half the board was critical and I was known as a bombito fan-boy when he didnt deserve call ups), Millar, Corbeanu, buchanan, ali, st clair, sirious 
-He got less obvious guys: Kennedy, brym, staq, Johnston at RCB, mcgill, sturing, waterman, zator, loturi, 
Therefore he has done well in this department

Logic 3 is sound but untrue IMO. 
-Herdman hasn't missed anyone obvious. Kolo, sigur, mitrovic, flores all were wanted by canada. 
-Herdman hasn't missed anyone not obvious. Maybe choiniere but he hasn't proved herdman wrong really. 


I'm not saying JH is elite, but I would love some example to prove how he failed/is bad rather than just saying he did the obvious. Perhaps theres some mythical scenario where the board feels its JH's job to find some absolutely garbage player and turn him into a star when no one else saw it coming..... because, you know, the board loves when JH used CMNT to develop players....... 

What's the bar? What's the specific criticism? 

[RS]

18 minutes ago, costarg said:

 I'm hard on Herdman for some things, yet I've also been very vocal about qualities he does possess.  I'm a huge fan of his and ridiculously appreciative of what he's achieved with Canada Soccer and what he's doing with TFC, but I also understand his limitations.  I won't shower blind praise on him for things he didn't do.

The point is that this isn't "blind" praise. It's very specific praise.

Herdman has his flaws and his strengths, just like anyone else. Integrating new players and getting them to perform well relatively quickly is one of his strengths.

[costarg]

3 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

The herdman criticism is very dutch-esque logic (i'm dutch and heavily involved in the community).

This is surely why we get along so well.  Similar, direct communication styles with no sugar.  I spent 2 years in Holland, but I'm not Dutch.

3 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

The herdman criticism is very dutch-esque logic (i'm dutch and heavily involved in the community).

Logic 1: "JH is bad at spotting talent because he did the obvious"
-This logic doesn't prove he is bad and non-sense. Very dutch to criticize someone for doing something right just because the "armchair brigade" says its obvious.

Logic 2: If herdman identified the obvious players and also did some not obvious players then he is good. 

Logic 3: If herdman misses the obvious players and not obvious players then he is bad. 


Logic 1 is nonsense. 

Logic 2 is sound and true IMO.
-He got the obvious guys and did it at very young ages. Kone, David, Bombito(was it obvious because half the board was critical and I was known as a bombito fan-boy when he didnt deserve call ups), Millar, Corbeanu, buchanan, ali, st clair, sirious 
-He got less obvious guys: Kennedy, brym, staq, Johnston at RCB, mcgill, sturing, waterman, zator, loturi, 
Therefore he has done well in this department

Logic 3 is sound but untrue IMO. 
-Herdman hasn't missed anyone obvious. Kolo, sigur, mitrovic, flores all were wanted by canada. 
-Herdman hasn't missed anyone not obvious. Maybe choiniere but he hasn't proved herdman wrong really. 


I'm not saying JH is elite, but I would love some example to prove how he failed/is bad rather than just saying he did the obvious. Perhaps theres some mythical scenario where the board feels its JH's job to find some absolutely garbage player and turn him into a star when no one else saw it coming..... because, you know, the board loves when JH used CMNT to develop players....... 

What's the bar? What's the specific criticism? 

I appreciate the detailed explanation.  I'd water it down into BE, ME & EE.  For me Herdman met expectations.  Did what he should, got some and lost some.  Overall even.

[CanadaFan123]

6 hours ago, reggietfc said:

alot of his previous post are anti tfc....way to much mls vs cpl drama on here these days

Projection much? You’re the most dramatic poster here when it comes to that. We’re talking facts. 
 

I will give Herdman credit for Kone but even that call was pretty obvious. If people recall we were very thin in midfield and he was projected to be called by just about everyone. 

[An Observer]

I think we are arguing about semantics to an extent.  If people are expecting a National team manager (Herdman or otherwise) to unearth a player at a club like Vaughan or Northwest bumpfuck university and give him a call up, that is never going to happen (even if the manager rates that person).  So it’s down to what is meant by “unearth” or identify talent early.  I personally think that what he has been good at is seeing the talent in players who don’t have a long pedigree at MLS level or similar and giving them a shot before other managers would have done as they would have liked to see a longer body of work.  Kone, Johnston, Miller, Bryan are all examples of that to a varying degree.  I would agree that in part it was to do with our lack of depth but he still guessed right more times than not.

We were certainly excited about Kone after he played 3 matches but that was a very limited body of work.  We have seen many players have a great starts, only to fizzle and fade into obscurity.  He saw something and gave him a chance.  Johnston had earned a starting slot for an expansion side but I wouldn’t say many would see him moving to Celtic a few years later.  Miller wasn’t a starter at Orlando (if memory serves) when Herdman picked him out and had him play LB in that match where we shut the US down and beat them at home for the first time in like forever.  Brym had consistently been given the stick by everyone on here but Herdman stuck with him.

[reggietfc]

2 hours ago, CanadaFan123 said:

Projection much? You’re the most dramatic poster here when it comes to that. We’re talking facts. 
 

I will give Herdman credit for Kone but even that call was pretty obvious. If people recall we were very thin in midfield and he was projected to be called by just about everyone. 

bro...which team do you support...because you know nothing about how  nat teams are run ....do you expect nat team gaffers to scout 17 yr olds in the 3rd div and start them on the big club ..they will take the best players in there top domestic league MLS in canada s case and players in other top leagues mold them into hopefully a good team...jus like every other country in world.

[InglewoodJack]

17 hours ago, An Observer said:

I think we are arguing about semantics to an extent.  If people are expecting a National team manager (Herdman or otherwise) to unearth a player at a club like Vaughan or Northwest bumpfuck university and give him a call up, that is never going to happen (even if the manager rates that person).  So it’s down to what is meant by “unearth” or identify talent early.  I personally think that what he has been good at is seeing the talent in players who don’t have a long pedigree at MLS level or similar and giving them a shot before other managers would have done as they would have liked to see a longer body of work.  

This is a more concise way of saying what I’ve been trying to make. Herdman isn’t pulling a guy out of Moose Factory Manitoba, but he saw the quality in Kone after a handful of pro games and threw him to the wolves. Many coaches wouldn’t do that. He also didn’t call up a lot of players fans hyped up a lot too. JMR has been a starboy since Kone was playing for CS NDG, and yet Kone got calls early, JMR didn’t. 

[Shway]

3 hours ago, InglewoodJack said:

This is a more concise way of saying what I’ve been trying to make. Herdman isn’t pulling a guy out of Moose Factory Manitoba, but he saw the quality in Kone after a handful of pro games and threw him to the wolves. Many coaches wouldn’t do that. He also didn’t call up a lot of players fans hyped up a lot too. JMR has been a starboy since Kone was playing for CS NDG, and yet Kone got calls early, JMR didn’t. 

Quick note...Those two boys share a birthday, and are 2 years apart. 

JMR has been hyped since he was 16, Kone came out of nowhere. 

The strong difference between the two is that Kone rose to promise in position of dire need. We still today, aren't "begging" for wingers. 

So in regard to the manager. I think the key is identifying the need (let's say RCB) and throwing a potential star (Bombito) into the fire. 

That's what JH did.

Edited May 29 by Shway

[InglewoodJack]

22 minutes ago, Shway said:

Quick note...Those two boys share a birthday, and are 2 years apart. 

JMR has been hyped since he was 16, Kone came out of nowhere. 

The strong difference between the two is that Kone rose to promise in position of dire need. We still today, are "begging" for wingers. 

So in regard to the manager. I think the key is identifying the need (let's say RCB) and throwing a potential star (Bombito) into the fire. 

That's what JH did.

Interesting, I had no idea re: the birthday.

Point was that if Herdman was just bringing in any "obvious" hyped players or guys that were burning up on social media, JMR would've gotten calls at 16, Rida Zouhir probably gets capped, hell, we probably make Enes Sali our starting winger at age 14 or whatever. You probably get Jesse Costa playing for the senior team by now too.

I think Bombito was a savvier move though. You can say we all knew Kone was going to be great, but Bombito looked pure trash last year. Looked trash for Canada too. Herdman thought it would be smart to take that guy, start him in a position he'd never played and let it rip. Insane decision, but look at how much Bombito has grown in 12 months. Still not a DM, but you look at a single Rapids game and you go "oh, I see, that's what he saw in him".

Anyways, to tie this back to the point of this tangent- if Herdman says Dumitru has a bit of Kone in him, I'm willing to hear him out. I'll believe it if Herdman starts playing him more often and against MLS teams. But I don't think he's talking out of his ass. He does have an eye.

[Kadenge]

1 hour ago, InglewoodJack said:

....if Herdman says Dumitru has a bit of Kone in him, I'm willing to hear him out. I'll believe it if Herdman starts playing him more often and against MLS teams....

This. According to the MLS next pro data provided by @Corazon, he's only played 4 games out of 8 total and started in 3 with 202 mins. Don't know if he was injured or joined late. Would be great if anyone who has watched him can comment on his ability.

[Corazon]

17 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

This. According to the MLS next pro data provided by @Corazon, he's only played 4 games out of 8 total and started in 3 with 202 mins. Don't know if he was injured or joined late. Would be great if anyone who has watched him can comment on his ability.

I noticed this as well when updating the document.  It does look like the games he's missed with TFC II aligns with when he's played for the first team.

Although he has yet to play an MLS game this season, he did make the bench for them in back to back games on April 13th & 20th.  He missed both TFC II's games on April 14th & 19th. 

He played most of the game last week with TFC on May 21st.  He missed TFC II game on May 23rd.

The only other TFC II game he missed was on March 17th and I'm not sure the reason for not playing that game.

From the very little I have seen with TFC, he does seem to play a similar style to Kone.  Less speed but he does seem to glide by opponents on the dribble.  He seems very calm on the ball which Kone is as well (both probably too calm at times) but Kone definitely has shown more attack to his game and better overall passing on the attack.  But, I'm basing this off of about 90 minutes of play I've seen.  I'm sure there are others on here who have seen more of him.

[Bigandy]

On 5/28/2024 at 2:25 PM, costarg said:

This is surely why we get along so well.  Similar, direct communication styles with no sugar.  I spent 2 years in Holland, but I'm not Dutch.

I appreciate the detailed explanation.  I'd water it down into BE, ME & EE.  For me Herdman met expectations.  Did what he should, got some and lost some.  Overall even.

I can fully appreciate your opinion on ME. I just struggle to see what he would have to do to EE. For me, he is in between the 2. 

[CanadaFan123]

8 hours ago, Bigandy said:

I can fully appreciate your opinion on ME. I just struggle to see what he would have to do to EE. For me, he is in between the 2. 

He was a result away IMO. Just needed a result at the WC or a trophy with Canada.