Gold Cup 2025...what an expanded Gold Cup could look like

[Unnamed Trialist]

23 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I agree with you. It's kind of hard to see.

On the flipside, it's a chance to play in some of the venues ahead of the World Cup, similar to confederations cup in past cycles.

And after looking into it a bit, this is how some of the guests would be affected by club world cup, assuming the club affiliations as of today:

England:

Netherlands:

Spain:

Argentina:

Canada:

 

Teams aren't really that affected for the most part...

You think England will qualify for 2026 ☺️…?

[Unnamed Trialist]

6 minutes ago, TGAA_Star said:

Then my mock draw after this would look like this:

 

Group A

- USA 🇺🇸 

- Haiti 🇭🇹 

- Suriname 🇸🇷 

- Qatar 🇶🇦 

 

 

Group B

- Canada 🇨🇦 

- Saudi Arabia 🇸🇦 

- El Salvador 🇸🇻 

- Cote d'Ivoire🇨🇮

 

 

Group C

- Mexico 🇲🇽 

- Norway 🇳🇴 

- Curacao 🇨🇼

- Costa Rica 🇨🇷 

 

Group D

 

- Colombia 🇨🇴

- Ghana 🇬🇭 

- Panama 🇵🇦 

- Trinidad and Tobago 🇹🇹 

 

Group E

 

- Uruguay 🇺🇾 

- Republic of Ireland 🇮🇪 

- Guatemala 🇬🇹 

- Martinique 🇲🇶 

 

 

Group F

- Jamaica 🇯🇲 

- Guyana 🇬🇾

- Guadeloupe 🇬🇵 

- Honduras 🇭🇳 

At least that would be entertaining.

[TGAA_Star]

51 minutes ago, Obinna said:

And because it's difficult to focus on anything but soccer right now, here is a mock draw with the guest teams I listed:

Group A

• USA
• Curacao
• Haiti
• Jordan

Group B

• Mexico
• El Salvador
• Martinique
• Qatar

Group C

• Canada
• Suriname
• Guadeloupe
• Ivory Coast

Group D

• Panama
• Guatemala
• Nicaragua
• Nigeria

Group E

• Costa Rica
• T&T
• Spain
• Colombia

Group F

• Jamaica
• Honduras
• England
• Argentina

 

 

I actually would love this

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

17 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

You think England will qualify for 2026 ☺️…?

As much as I do Spain and the other 14 teams that are going to go. 

[Grandbloke]

Why not simply 10 or 12 CONCACAF teams and 6 or 4 CONMEBOL teams?

[TGAA_Star]

Just now, Grandbloke said:

Why not simply 10 or 12 CONCACAF teams and 6 or 4 CONMEBOL teams?

Yeah but a 24 team Gold Cup would be sort of similar to the Euros no? 

[Obinna]

3 minutes ago, Grandbloke said:

Why not simply 10 or 12 CONCACAF teams and 6 or 4 CONMEBOL teams?

I was having the same thoughts just now. Just seems more natural and easy to pull off and excecute. 

It also weeds out some of the deadwood in concacaf. It's kind of silly having strong guest teams having to play against some of the minnows in our region, no offense to them. 

I would like to have less guest teams so it feels like a Gold Cup, so I would go with 4 from CONMEBOL, although 6 would be cool with me. 

Another point, this would help further the integration between the federations. They shouldn't merge, but increased cooperation would help both. 

[Obinna]

And something else that comes to mind, that could be a continual thing moving forward. Keep the 2024 Copa America structure for every second tournament, let's say. Then do similar for the Gold Cup every 2nd tournament:

2024 - Copa America + concacaf (interconfederation)

2025 - Gold Cup + conmebol (interconfederation)

2026 - World Cup

2027 - Copa America 

2027 - Gold Cup

2028 - Copa America + concacaf (interconfederation)

2029 - Gold Cup + conmebol (interconfederation)

2030 - World Cup

2031 -Copa America 

2031 - Gold Cup

2032 - Copa America (interconfederation)

2033 - Gold Cup (interconfederation)

2034 - World Cup

etc...

The good thing about that would be that in the 2nd half of every cycle, you get these interconfederational tournaments as part of your build up toward the world cup. Then, post world cup you spend the first half of the cycle looking inward and refocusing on affairs in your own backyard, so to speak. 

As for which teams qualify from south america for the interconfederational gold cup, it'd be easy enough to take the top 4 or 6, but what could possibly be cooler is taking the bottom 4 or 6. That would give this whole thing a UCL-Europa sort of feel, which let's be real is an honest reflection on how the tournaments compare. I am okay with Gold Cup being the "Europa" in this case, becasue what we don't want (I think) are south American teams winning every interconfederational Gold Cup.

Or, maybe we do? Maybe having the best teams gives the Gold Cup a much needed boost. And even if it's the "B" interconfederational tournament as far as conmebol is concerned, it's something new to win and get bragging rights about. 

 

 

 

[Watchmen]

1 hour ago, TGAA_Star said:

Yeah but a 24 team Gold Cup would be sort of similar to the Euros no? 

In terms of teams and format? Yes. In terms of quality? Not even close.

[Watchmen]

1 hour ago, Obinna said:

I was having the same thoughts just now. Just seems more natural and easy to pull off and excecute. 

It also weeds out some of the deadwood in concacaf. It's kind of silly having strong guest teams having to play against some of the minnows in our region, no offense to them. 

I thinking we'd all prefer a continuation of the joint-Copa. If that happens, I think the compromise for the other teams is ensuring more of them get to participate in the Gold Cup.

If a joint-Copa doesn't continue, then I'd agree that I'd prefer simply inviting more teams from SA to the Gold Cup (either version proposed is fine). Would sort of be a back-door in to getting it how we want anyway.

[narduch]

 

[mpg_29]

Honestly that seems a bit much for a Concacaf tournament. Inviting 8 teams most of which are in the top 20 rankings would decimate a lot of the Concacaf teams.

[RJB]

If it's a continental championship, it should stay that.  It's not World Cup Lite, and not just some random invitational.  I think this ruins the tournament if it happens.  

[yomurphy1]

Just now, RJB said:

If it's a continental championship, it should stay that.  It's not World Cup Lite, and not just some random invitational.  I think this ruins the tournament if it happens.  

I understand it in the Copa America sense because it's a 10 member confederation but this seems just disrespectful to the rest of CONCACAF (even if many of the member feds are tiny). 

[RJB]

On 7/10/2024 at 12:36 PM, Obinna said:

And something else that comes to mind, that could be a continual thing moving forward. Keep the 2024 Copa America structure for every second tournament, let's say. Then do similar for the Gold Cup every 2nd tournament:

2024 - Copa America + concacaf (interconfederation)

2025 - Gold Cup + conmebol (interconfederation)

2026 - World Cup

2027 - Copa America 

2027 - Gold Cup

2028 - Copa America + concacaf (interconfederation)

2029 - Gold Cup + conmebol (interconfederation)

2030 - World Cup

2031 -Copa America 

2031 - Gold Cup

2032 - Copa America (interconfederation)

2033 - Gold Cup (interconfederation)

2034 - World Cup

etc...

The good thing about that would be that in the 2nd half of every cycle, you get these interconfederational tournaments as part of your build up toward the world cup. Then, post world cup you spend the first half of the cycle looking inward and refocusing on affairs in your own backyard, so to speak. 

As for which teams qualify from south america for the interconfederational gold cup, it'd be easy enough to take the top 4 or 6, but what could possibly be cooler is taking the bottom 4 or 6. That would give this whole thing a UCL-Europa sort of feel, which let's be real is an honest reflection on how the tournaments compare. I am okay with Gold Cup being the "Europa" in this case, becasue what we don't want (I think) are south American teams winning every interconfederational Gold Cup.

Or, maybe we do? Maybe having the best teams gives the Gold Cup a much needed boost. And even if it's the "B" interconfederational tournament as far as conmebol is concerned, it's something new to win and get bragging rights about. 

 

 

 

Still too many Gold Cups.  It should be every four years, especially if we're participating in Copa.

[Watchmen]

If we're going to invite teams, I'd prefer it be from CONMEBOL only. Continue the rivalry/integration between the two.

[Obinna]

55 minutes ago, RJB said:

Still too many Gold Cups.  It should be every four years, especially if we're participating in Copa.

You're probably right, especially with Nations League as well.

[InglewoodJack]

On one hand, I really like the teams they’re picking. It’ll be interesting to play France again two years later (if we do), and see how we’ve grown. 
 

On the other hand, I do wish we had less Gold Cups, and tried keeping our tournaments to the Americas. We built as close to a rivalry with Argentina as a titan can have with a relative minnow, but if we play teams like Uruguay or Venezuela again, those are teams we can start to build interesting history with over time. 

[Kent]

I'd like to keep the Gold Cup, strictly CONCACAF.

I think it makes sense to keep the Copa America, strictly CONMEBOL (or if they want to round up to 12 or 16 teams with some invites, that's their call, I don't really care).

But I do think it would be cool to have a new regular tournament, maybe call it the Pan America Cup or something, where CONCACAF and CONMEBOL countries qualify for it (not automatic entry for all CONMEBOL teams).

As for the proposal for next year, I'd rather it have a different name too. I don't know, maybe "One Off Invitational Cup" or something. It would be fun to watch though and I do think it could benefit the CONCACAF teams that play in it.

[Watchmen]

12 minutes ago, Kent said:

I'd like to keep the Gold Cup, strictly CONCACAF.

I think it makes sense to keep the Copa America, strictly CONMEBOL (or if they want to round up to 12 or 16 teams with some invites, that's their call, I don't really care).

But I do think it would be cool to have a new regular tournament, maybe call it the Pan America Cup or something, where CONCACAF and CONMEBOL countries qualify for it (not automatic entry for all CONMEBOL teams).

As for the proposal for next year, I'd rather it have a different name too. I don't know, maybe "One Off Invitational Cup" or something. It would be fun to watch though and I do think it could benefit the CONCACAF teams that play in it.

I think it's a bit of a tough situation. I think there's far too many new tournaments being created right now, and we don't need another. My preference would be a permanent joint-Copa, with a CONCACAF-only Gold Cup every 4 years, but I don't know how realistic that all is. My fallback is a Gold Cup with invites from South America. In both situations, it's an expansion of historical tournaments in a manner that I think makes sense for everyone, and you can get at least some continuity between events.

[RJB]

A consideration that is needed is that a continental championship has never been won by an invited team.  There has been some close calls (Gold Cup '96, '00, '03) (Copa America '93, '01) but it has never happened.  This list of invitees or frankly anything close to it all but guarantees that there will be an out of Federation winner.  Frankly, that's just embarassing and I don't know why we'd subject ourselves to that.  Any of the 8 teams rumoured to be invitees in the above tweet would be considered one of the favourites.

[Kadenge]

5 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

I think it's a bit of a tough situation. I think there's far too many new tournaments being created right now, and we don't need another. My preference would be a permanent joint-Copa, with a CONCACAF-only Gold Cup every 4 years, but I don't know how realistic that all is. My fallback is a Gold Cup with invites from South America. In both situations, it's an expansion of historical tournaments in a manner that I think makes sense for everyone, and you can get at least some continuity between events.

Still too many games for players re joint Copa AND GC. These tournaments happen in the off season and players need a proper break. Their seasons are already too long, with league, Cup, CL, Europa etc + NL, WC, & Confed tournaments. Perhaps they should eliminate NL. 

[Watchmen]

4 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

Still too many games for players re joint Copa AND GC. These tournaments happen in the off season and players need a proper break. Their seasons are already too long, with league, Cup, CL, Europa etc + NL, WC, & Confed tournaments. Perhaps they should eliminate NL. 

The current situation is a GC every 2 years. I'd rather a Copa and 1 GC. And I'd have no problem eliminating the NL.

[Obinna]

2 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

The current situation is a GC every 2 years. I'd rather a Copa and 1 GC. And I'd have no problem eliminating the NL.

I don't see the NL going away. We need it so that smaller nations get meaningful games, including a way to qualify for Gold Cup.

If we did eliminate Nations League, we could replace it with, or rebrand it to, a Gold Cup qualification tournament. It's basically that now anyway.

And if we did that, we are likely back to automatically qualifying for the top CONCACAF nations, including Canada. These teams would have to fill the void with friendlies, which are hard to get with European NL filling the UEFA calendar.

As long as UEFA has nations league, we probably need to have it as well.

[Watchmen]

4 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I don't see the NL going away. We need it so that smaller nations get meaningful games, including a way to qualify for Gold Cup.

If we did eliminate Nations League, we could replace it with, or rebrand it to, a Gold Cup qualification tournament. It's basically that now anyway.

And if we did that, we are likely back to automatically qualifying for the top CONCACAF nations, including Canada. These teams would have to fill the void with friendlies, which are hard to get with European NL filling the UEFA calendar.

As long as UEFA has nations league, we probably need to have it as well.

Oh, I don't think there's any plans to get rid of NL. I'm just saying I would get rid of it.

Edited August 1 by Watchmen