Jesse Marsch: CanMNT manager

[Bigandy]

On 8/24/2024 at 12:39 PM, costarg said:

I was thrilled with his selections and 11's.  Like I said, my only concern is if his history of US bias pops up on CANMNT.  The sample size is tiny, it's not like he could've fielded 5 US born, Canadian connected players at Copa.

It seems like JM has proven himself 100% so far in his small sample size of player selections with no obvious bias. It’s odd to be worried about an apparent bias in club football 12 years ago. Who are the potential us bias players. ZMG, strouds, mcnaughton…?   4 guys yet to be selected with 2 not even officially in our player pool.  I guess David could be a potential USA bias?   
 

id think that it’s more important to see an example this decade and with the current team before we even bring it up, let alone be concerned. 

[costarg]

On 8/28/2024 at 7:13 AM, Obinna said:

@costarg I am sure you have nothing to worry about my friend. This isn't club football. There are a finite number of American dual-nations good enough for Canada, but not good enough for the USMNT. There is no way we are going to see a scenario where 4 or 5 guys on the field are Americans, and besides, if they are on the field for us they are actually Canadians anyway.

Just take McGraw and the Stroud brothers. For all 3 to be on the field at once, you are probably looking at some kind of B camp. Your worry seems to be that Marsch will elevate their status in the team by virtue of being fellow Americans, but is there a world where all 3 legitimately win their positional battles to earn a starting spot?

And what about depth spots, if we want to drop the bar lower. Is there a chance McGraw beats out Waterman let's say for a spot on the bench? Sure, it could happen. Would it be down to American bias? Depends on what both men are doing at their clubs, but there is a fine line between vigilantly watching Marsch for bias and just being paranoid. I am not calling you paranoid, but I just want to get that out now because I can see arguments being made by you or whomever that McGraw was picked ahead of Waterman and it's down to bias. And honestly, not saying that could never happen either, but I am saying if and when it does, we should remember the fine line I speak of.

McGraw and Waterman is just an example, it could be MacNaughton and Waterman, or Stroud versus Schaffleburg, or younger Stroud versus JMR, etc. These are just examples.

We also don't know for sure the Stroud brothers will be involved, so as it stands there are just two dual national American-Canadians in the pool, right?

@Bigandy & @Obinna I'm all in with Marsch, he's done and said everything right.  I wouldn't dare criticize anything with CANMNT to this point.  Full marks.  I was also thrilled with his nomination.

Like you say, club football is not like national teams where you can't trade for someone.  But, past experience can and does give indicators. Just an example to help explain my concern... back with the Impact he'd start Davy Arnaud and Coleen Warner ahead of Patrice Bernier, it happened several times and raised lots of eyebrows.  It left a mark, it was completely unjustifiable and just one example.  From my point of view, McGraw, Waterman and McNaughton are all close or similar levels with each offering a specific skillset or lack of.  I wouldn't go all nuts over that.  While I haven't seen anything to indicate US bias will happen with CANMNT, I'm just really paranoid and hope we never get to the point we start asking those questions, cause it has happened in the past with Jesse.

[Obinna]

58 minutes ago, costarg said:

@Bigandy & @Obinna I'm all in with Marsch, he's done and said everything right.  I wouldn't dare criticize anything with CANMNT to this point.  Full marks.  I was also thrilled with his nomination.

Like you say, club football is not like national teams where you can't trade for someone.  But, past experience can and does give indicators. Just an example to help explain my concern... back with the Impact he'd start Davy Arnaud and Coleen Warner ahead of Patrice Bernier, it happened several times and raised lots of eyebrows.  It left a mark, it was completely unjustifiable and just one example.  From my point of view, McGraw, Waterman and McNaughton are all close or similar levels with each offering a specific skillset or lack of.  I wouldn't go all nuts over that.  While I haven't seen anything to indicate US bias will happen with CANMNT, I'm just really paranoid and hope we never get to the point we start asking those questions, cause it has happened in the past with Jesse.

Appreciate you putting your concerns in that way. I don't necessarily want to excuse Marsch for playing Arnaud or Warner over Bernier many years ago, but I do think it's fair to question just how egregious that was? I always thought Arnaud was a good player and I could always understand why a coach would like Warner, even though he wasn't my favorite necessarily. Naturally as a Canadian, I would put Bernier ahead of both, but I am not sure there was a big gap.

Perhaps not as close as the 3 Canadian CBs you mention, but I don't think those 3 Montreal Impact midfielders were worlds apart. Respectfully, could it be just an emotional memory, since Bernier is a Montreal guy and a legend? And who is to say being American had anything to do with it? Again, I just don't see the concern myself, which is why I say don't worry, but I do get where you are coming from, now that you have explained it further.

Cheers!

[Bigandy]

On 8/29/2024 at 9:49 AM, costarg said:

@Bigandy & @Obinna I'm all in with Marsch, he's done and said everything right.  I wouldn't dare criticize anything with CANMNT to this point.  Full marks.  I was also thrilled with his nomination.

Like you say, club football is not like national teams where you can't trade for someone.  But, past experience can and does give indicators. Just an example to help explain my concern... back with the Impact he'd start Davy Arnaud and Coleen Warner ahead of Patrice Bernier, it happened several times and raised lots of eyebrows.  It left a mark, it was completely unjustifiable and just one example.  From my point of view, McGraw, Waterman and McNaughton are all close or similar levels with each offering a specific skillset or lack of.  I wouldn't go all nuts over that.  While I haven't seen anything to indicate US bias will happen with CANMNT, I'm just really paranoid and hope we never get to the point we start asking those questions, cause it has happened in the past with Jesse.

I totally get that.  I do the same things for events im emotionally invested in. 
 

I guess, I just don’t really see any usa based players in our system other than zmg who is competing with another USA born player mcnaughton and then waterman.  So even if he is incredibly bias towards USA players, he doesn’t have the option to exercise his opinion.  Maybe if we get more duals but that’s a lot of what ifs. 
 

besides, I’m not the same person I was 12 years ago. I’m sure marsch is not the same coach he was.  

[Watchmen]

On 8/29/2024 at 6:49 AM, costarg said:

@Bigandy & @Obinna I'm all in with Marsch, he's done and said everything right.  I wouldn't dare criticize anything with CANMNT to this point.  Full marks.  I was also thrilled with his nomination.

Like you say, club football is not like national teams where you can't trade for someone.  But, past experience can and does give indicators. Just an example to help explain my concern... back with the Impact he'd start Davy Arnaud and Coleen Warner ahead of Patrice Bernier, it happened several times and raised lots of eyebrows.  It left a mark, it was completely unjustifiable and just one example.  From my point of view, McGraw, Waterman and McNaughton are all close or similar levels with each offering a specific skillset or lack of.  I wouldn't go all nuts over that.  While I haven't seen anything to indicate US bias will happen with CANMNT, I'm just really paranoid and hope we never get to the point we start asking those questions, cause it has happened in the past with Jesse.

Canadian Marc Do Santos continuously chose central midfielder and Americans Andy Rose over Derick Cornelius at center back. I wasn't a huge fan of Cornelius, but Rose was always bad and a terrible choice. In other words, some times managers (especially early in their careers at a new level) just make bad choices.

[Sal333]

2 hours ago, Watchmen said:

Canadian Marc Do Santos continuously chose central midfielder and Americans Andy Rose over Derick Cornelius at center back. I wasn't a huge fan of Cornelius, but Rose was always bad and a terrible choice. In other words, some times managers (especially early in their careers at a new level) just make bad choices.

Am I missing out on some sarcasm? 

[Joe MacCarthy]

 

[Joe MacCarthy]

Very good interview with a lot of new insights and good news of plans on the horizon. 

A couple of things stood out to me.  He said there were about 10 dual Nats he is looking at and likely a lot more, with people and agents giving him headsup often.

The other thing was that he only heard about Grady McDonnell a few days ago?  I know he's busy and has a lot on the go but I would think somebody might have at least mentioned it.  I don't follow anything other the Nats but just being on this board I've known of him for a while.

[Onelessstar]

Maybe since GM is only 16 and miles away from a call, it isn't front and centre for him on the senior nats. 

[Watchmen]

7 hours ago, Sal333 said:

Am I missing out on some sarcasm? 

No. MDS was just a bad manager who decided a defensive midfielder was a better option at center back than a natural center back, despite all evidence that Rose was a bad center back. 

[BearcatSA]

1 hour ago, Watchmen said:

No. MDS was just a bad manager who decided a defensive midfielder was a better option at center back than a natural center back, despite all evidence that Rose was a bad center back. 

But the Caps' pbp team loved  how Rose was a coach on the field!

[Unnamed Trialist]

3 hours ago, Watchmen said:

No. MDS was just a bad manager who decided a defensive midfielder was a better option at center back than a natural center back, despite all evidence that Rose was a bad center back. 

We've gone through a lot of this at Caps, including Timmy Parker being a future legend for the USMNT, plenty of default Americans in all kinds of positions blocking anything of any promise (Nerwinski), you could even argue that Jay Demerit was overstated, though that is maybe more an indication of how far we have come, or the real level of MLS.

This is the first year in a long time that I'd say there is no filler starting, there are links that could be improved, but not mere filler.

[mpg_29]

13 hours ago, Joe MacCarthy said:

Very good interview with a lot of new insights and good news of plans on the horizon. 

A couple of things stood out to me.  He said there were about 10 dual Nats he is looking at and likely a lot more, with people and agents giving him headsup often.

The other thing was that he only heard about Grady McDonnell a few days ago?  I know he's busy and has a lot on the go but I would think somebody might have at least mentioned it.  I don't follow anything other the Nats but just being on this board I've known of him for a while.

10? There are only 3-5 or so mainly discussed on here is there not?

[Bigandy]

1 hour ago, mpg_29 said:

10? There are only 3-5 or so mainly discussed on here is there not?

This number came out a while ago so a guy like Farsi would have been on it.  Not sure if Tani and ldf count based on timelines. 
 
possible duals:
koleosho

sigur

ldf

tani

afrifra

farsi

promkse

jebbison

stroud 1

stroud 2

abzi

kulenovic

lopez

gauld?

pos

 

[Unnamed Trialist]

19 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

This number came out a while ago so a guy like Farsi would have been on it.  Not sure if Tani and ldf count based on timelines. 
 
possible duals:
koleosho

sigur

ldf

tani

afrifra

farsi

promkse

jebbison

stroud 1

stroud 2

abzi

kulenovic

lopez

gauld?

pos

 

I like that Stroud 1 and 2, it's funny; you occasionally get that in Spain where if they sign a player with the same surname, the shirt will put a 2 or II after on the back. I recall a striker for Palamós in second division who signed where his brother had been, so was happy to go by Puche II. That year he was league scoring leader. 

[Strait Red]

37 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

This number came out a while ago so a guy like Farsi would have been on it.  Not sure if Tani and ldf count based on timelines. 
 
possible duals:
koleosho

sigur

ldf

tani

afrifra

farsi

promkse

jebbison

stroud 1

stroud 2

abzi

kulenovic

lopez

gauld?

pos

 

Owen Goodman as well

[Sal333]

2 hours ago, Bigandy said:

This number came out a while ago so a guy like Farsi would have been on it.  Not sure if Tani and ldf count based on timelines. 
 
possible duals:
koleosho

sigur

ldf

tani

afrifra

farsi

promkse

jebbison

stroud 1

stroud 2

abzi

kulenovic

lopez

gauld?

pos

 

I don't know if he is rated but there's also Lazar Stefanovic.

[Norrin Radd]

Enes Sali could be another. 

[Watchmen]

8 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

We've gone through a lot of this at Caps, including Timmy Parker being a future legend for the USMNT, plenty of default Americans in all kinds of positions blocking anything of any promise (Nerwinski), you could even argue that Jay Demerit was overstated, though that is maybe more an indication of how far we have come, or the real level of MLS.

This is the first year in a long time that I'd say there is no filler starting, there are links that could be improved, but not mere filler.

At least with Parker and Nerwinski they were young, Demerit was an EPL player coming to MLS, and all 3 players were playing in their natural positions. The Rose situation was just bad. Like Vanni insisting Dajome was a RWB.

[Bigandy]

Could add a bunch to of youngsters,

tj, McDonnell, smith, Kahn,jdg.  
 

my guess is the 3-4 contributors were

sigur, jebbison, kolo, Farsi (could be part of the 6-7)

the remaining 6-7:

afrifra, Tani, promise, abzi, sali, Goodman 

 

now we added kulenovic, strouds, Lopez and youngsters in their own list. 

[An Observer]

What about Bruno Davidson with Celtic B?

[Bigandy]

13 hours ago, An Observer said:

What about Bruno Davidson with Celtic B?

As someone who included Bruno on predicted depth charts a year ago, I support him optimistically but I can’t see him being one of the 10 given the other options.
Perhaps you are just adding to the list of duals since he was forgotten. 

[An Observer]

9 hours ago, Bigandy said:

As someone who included Bruno on predicted depth charts a year ago, I support him optimistically but I can’t see him being one of the 10 given the other options.
Perhaps you are just adding to the list of duals since he was forgotten. 

Just adding him as you say.  His development seems to have stalled over the last two years but he is still on Celtic’s second side

[frattinator]

Marsch was on Men in Blazers for an interview earlier today. Some interesting tidbits about training for PK during Copa and his expectations for this upcoming window.

 

 

[PastPros]

37 minutes ago, frattinator said:

Marsch was on Men in Blazers for an interview earlier today. Some interesting tidbits about training for PK during Copa and his expectations for this upcoming window.

 

 

"Jonathan Davies" mentioned by Marsch 😬