Jesse Marsch: CanMNT manager

[jhoops__]

Our finishing has been shit no doubt.   

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

5 minutes ago, Floortom said:

We’ve generated 13 big chances in the tournament and only converted on 1 of them. That’s a ghastly ratio - need the opposite of that to have a chance vs Argentina.

I would say that's not sustainable, in a good way. 

We have people that score - full stop - for country and club. 

[Snowcrash]

31 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

I would say that's not sustainable, in a good way. 

We have people that score - full stop - for country and club. 

I agree that things average out.  I'd be more worried if we're not creating those chances The opposite is when you're scoring way above your expected goals per game.  That's not sustainable either.

[AvroArrow]

One thing I've noticed is that Davies has greatly reduced the amount of hero ball that he played under Herdman and is now attacking like you would expect a player in his role/position to attack.  No more trying to beat 4 players off the dribble.  That can't be coincidental.  Maybe he was told that if he wants to be captain of the team that he has to play like he is part of the team.

[jhoops__]

Agreed with that.   He’s starting to figure out defending comes first and there are others that can help the attack.   Very mature performances from him.

[Joe MacCarthy]

2 hours ago, mpg_29 said:

Definitely a more level-headed mindset than "Fuck Croatia"

That's not a fair comparison.  That was not said for public consumption but was caught on a hot mic.  Herdman was then asked about it.  What was he supposed to do, back down from it and send a message to his players "yeah we're really not good enough to beat these guys"  His old Canada new Canada philosophy wouldn't allow it.

While I'm here, I'll say it when everything is going great and people won't think it's sour grapes when things aren't.  I am detecting something in Jesse's personality (not sure what it is yet) but I think everyone will want to move on from him rather than the opposite after 2026.  I don't seem him being long for the program.  This isn't a great example but a Mike Keenan type who can have success for a year or two and then people want him outta there.  I can't come up with the right word but I think his tenure won't age well and he'll lose the players.  I know that happens to every coach but unlike Herdman who lasted for years I see Jesse going only a few.

Just my opinion and one of my feelings like Herdman and Corbeanu.

[jhoops__]

What’s the basis for this type of thinking?   I can’t make any sense of it whatsoever from what we’ve witnessed so far…

[Kadenge]

Re scoring/conversion, the key is continuing to create scoring opportunities. If you have quality strikers the goals should come. But  Larin has not been in club form and has to be  lacking confidence now. We can't have 2 strikers starting for their defensive play. Tani deserves a start.

[dyslexic nam]

6 minutes ago, Joe MacCarthy said:

That's not a fair comparison.  That was not said for public consumption but was caught on a hot mic.  Herdman was then asked about it.  What was he supposed to do, back down from it and send a message to his players "yeah we're really not good enough to beat these guys"  His old Canada new Canada philosophy wouldn't allow it.

While I'm here, I'll say it when everything is going great and people won't think it's sour grapes when things aren't.  I am detecting something in Jesse's personality (not sure what it is yet) but I think everyone will want to move on from him rather than the opposite after 2026.  I don't seem him being long for the program.  This isn't a great example but a Mike Keenan type who can have success for a year or two and then people want him outta there.  I can't come up with the right word but I think his tenure won't age well and he'll lose the players.  I know that happens to every coach but unlike Herdman who lasted for years I see Jesse going only a few.

Just my opinion and one of my feelings like Herdman and Corbeanu.

Ironically, the things you are saying about Marsch is exactly what I felt about Herdman from very early days. He is a short term change-agent whose strengths and methods are better suited to transformation than sustained success.  And that is precisely what he did for our program. 

I don’t get that vibe at all from March so not sure what you mean - unless it is just about the idea that he will have worn out his welcome. And I don’t see any evidence that that will be the case - but I also don’t know as much about his past experiences as many others here.  

[Club Linesman]

32 minutes ago, AvroArrow said:

One thing I've noticed is that Davies has greatly reduced the amount of hero ball that he played under Herdman and is now attacking like you would expect a player in his role/position to attack.  No more trying to beat 4 players off the dribble.  That can't be coincidental.  Maybe he was told that if he wants to be captain of the team that he has to play like he is part of the team.

One hundred percent.  Davies made it clear repeatedly he wants to play up the pitch. Herdman allowed him to do as he pleased. Marsch is actually coaching. I assume the captaincy was dangled as well as promises about playing higher against minnows, but in real games against real opponents Marsch is playing Davies where we need him and where his skills are best used. We have 2 of the fastest defenders in the world and that will make up for a lot of miscues as the team continues to grow. Davies can fill his bag against st Kitts but against Argentina… you play LB.

[jonovision]

8 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

Ironically, the things you are saying about Marsch is exactly what I felt about Herdman from very early days. He is a short term change-agent whose strengths and methods are better suited to transformation than sustained success.  And that is precisely what he did for our program. 

I don’t get that vibe at all from March so not sure what you mean - unless it is just about the idea that he will have worn out his welcome. And I don’t see any evidence that that will be the case - but I also don’t know as much about his past experiences as many others here.  

He was with the women for 7 years and the men for 5, and only the last year or two of each stint did the effects seem to be wearing off. Both quite long tenures for international football, regardless of gender.

[mpg_29]

19 minutes ago, Joe MacCarthy said:

While I'm here, I'll say it when everything is going great and people won't think it's sour grapes when things aren't.  I am detecting something in Jesse's personality (not sure what it is yet) but I think everyone will want to move on from him rather than the opposite after 2026.  I don't seem him being long for the program.  This isn't a great example but a Mike Keenan type who can have success for a year or two and then people want him outta there.  I can't come up with the right word but I think his tenure won't age well and he'll lose the players.  I know that happens to every coach but unlike Herdman who lasted for years I see Jesse going only a few.

Tbh I was going on the title of the video about how Argentina will be tough, haven't really listened to any of Marsch's press clips.

I'm not sure what you mean though. I am not really expecting Marsch to stay beyond WC 2026 regardless of what happens...I feel like that view is pretty common. I am generally expecting him to stay here through the WC 2026 though. I guess if Canada does something crazy in the next couple of games he could get some tempting club offer somewhere or the US federation themselves tries to lure him but I'm not really expecting it.

Edited July 6 by mpg_29

[Gian-Luca]

3 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

That was the scary part about the game last night - we really could have been up 3 or 4 goals by half and the game could have essentially been over.   Admittedly they had a clear header that was wasted so it isn’t like it was all one-way traffic but according to FitMob we had 4 “big chances” and they had 0.  Our XG was 1.65 and theirs was 0.86.  We absolutely could have been free and clear of them with just a bit more luck.  And all of that is playing against 12 men.   

As an aside, I have been seeing more than one set of xg numbers for our games all tournament long. In that ESPN extra time segment they have our xg at 2.45 or something. Given that these are supposed to be metrics-based, it continues to me skeptical about the whole “xg” phenomenon, even if it is useful to throw at people like the two dudes on Deadball tv who somehow think that Venezuela created more chances than we did. The eye test says otherwise, which is what I like to go by

[CanadaFan123]

38 minutes ago, Joe MacCarthy said:

That's not a fair comparison.  That was not said for public consumption but was caught on a hot mic.  Herdman was then asked about it.  What was he supposed to do, back down from it and send a message to his players "yeah we're really not good enough to beat these guys"  His old Canada new Canada philosophy wouldn't allow it.

While I'm here, I'll say it when everything is going great and people won't think it's sour grapes when things aren't.  I am detecting something in Jesse's personality (not sure what it is yet) but I think everyone will want to move on from him rather than the opposite after 2026.  I don't seem him being long for the program.  This isn't a great example but a Mike Keenan type who can have success for a year or two and then people want him outta there.  I can't come up with the right word but I think his tenure won't age well and he'll lose the players.  I know that happens to every coach but unlike Herdman who lasted for years I see Jesse going only a few.

Just my opinion and one of my feelings like Herdman and Corbeanu.

That’s not what happened. He said it when asked what he said to the team after Belgium. 
 

“I told them they belong here and we’re going to go and eff— Croatia,” he said with a smile in FIFA’s official post-game pitchside interview. “That’s as simple as it gets.”

[Unnamed Trialist]

16 minutes ago, jonovision said:

He was with the women for 7 years and the men for 5, and only the last year or two of each stint did the effects seem to be wearing off. Both quite long tenures for international football, regardless of gender.

Herdman had the advantage with the men that we hardly played the first years. He wasn't exposed because we didn't play. He survived longer due to an incompetent CSA, I'd say. Then he figured it out three years into the tenure. 

Marsch will have 8 matches in two months. How long did Herdman take to get to 8 matches?

He did the same with TFC, got hired and only played a match 5 months later.

This is responding to the question about how long Marsch will last. Shorter tenure, possibly more substantial. 

[themodelcitizen]

1 hour ago, AvroArrow said:

One thing I've noticed is that Davies has greatly reduced the amount of hero ball that he played under Herdman and is now attacking like you would expect a player in his role/position to attack.  No more trying to beat 4 players off the dribble.  That can't be coincidental.  Maybe he was told that if he wants to be captain of the team that he has to play like he is part of the team.

Wonder if a lot of that has to do with the tiny pitches here tbh

[jonovision]

10 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

As an aside, I have been seeing more than one set of xg numbers for our games all tournament long. In that ESPN extra time segment they have our xg at 2.45 or something. Given that these are supposed to be metrics-based, it continues to me skeptical about the whole “xg” phenomenon, even if it is useful to throw at people like the two dudes on Deadball tv who somehow think that Venezuela created more chances than we did. The eye test says otherwise, which is what I like to go by

I think people are very bad at the eye test. I mean lots of people were acting as if David's miss was a 100% chance, but a striker scores from that exact scenario at best 40-50% of the time. Ditto for Larin's miss, the save on Millar, etc. Shaffelburg converted on a fairly low percentage opportunity.

We could have had 4, but we also could have had 0.

[Unnamed Trialist]

Just now, CanadaFan123 said:

That’s not what happened. He said it when asked what he said to the team after Belgium. 
 

“I told them they belong here and we’re going to go and eff— Croatia,” he said with a smile in FIFA’s official post-game pitchside interview. “That’s as simple as it gets.”

Also: would he have said fuck Serbia, or f** Jamaica? No, because we had players from those nations. 

Saying that about Croatia when Borjan was openly antagonistic in the context of Balkan history shows how far Herdman was from a Canadian mindset, where the effort made to not carry over certain hatreds from the old world is substantial and a point of pride. And where Croatians have played a great role in our soccer history. But what's a culturally clueless Geordie going to understand about that?

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

41 minutes ago, Joe MacCarthy said:

That's not a fair comparison.  That was not said for public consumption but was caught on a hot mic.  Herdman was then asked about it.  What was he supposed to do, back down from it and send a message to his players "yeah we're really not good enough to beat these guys"  His old Canada new Canada philosophy wouldn't allow it.

While I'm here, I'll say it when everything is going great and people won't think it's sour grapes when things aren't.  I am detecting something in Jesse's personality (not sure what it is yet) but I think everyone will want to move on from him rather than the opposite after 2026.  I don't seem him being long for the program.  This isn't a great example but a Mike Keenan type who can have success for a year or two and then people want him outta there.  I can't come up with the right word but I think his tenure won't age well and he'll lose the players.  I know that happens to every coach but unlike Herdman who lasted for years I see Jesse going only a few.

Just my opinion and one of my feelings like Herdman and Corbeanu.

I was one of Marsch's biggest supporters in the run up to the hiring but I said then that I don't see him here beyond 2026.

If we do well, there will be offers and if we don't, we should move on.

And I was and am okay with that.  We can build Canadian with the timetable after the World Cup. He was the best available for this 2 year massively important momentum. A strong showing at home inspires years of growth.

 

I thought he could galvanise us for that task and he has, so far, done somewhat better than I hoped.

[mpg_29]

27 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Herdman had the advantage with the men that we hardly played the first years. He wasn't exposed because we didn't play. He survived longer due to an incompetent CSA, I'd say. Then he figured it out three years into the tenure. 

Marsch will have 8 matches in two months. How long did Herdman take to get to 8 matches?

He did the same with TFC, got hired and only played a match 5 months later.

This is responding to the question about how long Marsch will last. Shorter tenure, possibly more substantial. 

Tbf to Herdman winning the Octo was not nothing. 14 games in 7 months

Edit: if you include all games from March 2021 up to and including our WC games it was 34 games in ~20 months.

Edited July 6 by mpg_29

[Watchmen]

4 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

I was recently critical of Herdman but I absolutely want to be fair to him so I will say that he does seem to have had a lasting legacy on the mindset of this team.   March has noted how close and surprisingly unified the guys are.  One or two of the players called the guys “brothers” in post game interview last night.  As much as I think the move to Marsch was the right next-step in the evolution of this team, it definitely seems like the (very positive) mindset that Herdman created has continued on and is still galvanizing this group of players.   So full credit to him for establishing a crucial element in our team’s identity.   

Herdman took an organization that was at some of it's lowest moments (and that's really saying something) and made players proud/excited to be part of the set up again.  The dual nationals were picking Canada over other options and there was rarely the "mysterious injury" before games that prevented someone from showing up (Arfield being an exception).  He benefited from a "golden generation" coming in to the program, and I think a lot of the natural talent and a weak region masked his tactical limitations.  But, he'll always be one of the best hires the CSA has ever made (men's and women's) and has played a significant role in Canada's development.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

34 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Also: would he have said fuck Serbia, or f** Jamaica? No, because we had players from those nations. 

Saying that about Croatia when Borjan was openly antagonistic in the context of Balkan history shows how far Herdman was from a Canadian mindset, where the effort made to not carry over certain hatreds from the old world is substantial and a point of pride. And where Croatians have played a great role in our soccer history. But what's a culturally clueless Geordie going to understand about that?

Never can escape your biases, can you?😄

 

It was dumb thing to say but if he was actually as clueless as you say, why would he not say it about Jamaica or Serbia?

Your mind-reading assignments of motives and moral preaching has to still have some internal logic. Or it is just well-worded biased ranting.

 

Going to your previous post.

Easy to bash on Herdman now...

but within a year and half, we beat the States in the Nation's League that felt to me then like the start of something. And it was a well coached game.

We can make up hypotheticals about playing better teams but that's just what they are and we progressed fairly steadily to do something we hadn't done since I was a small child.

Marsch has given him credit for starting something with these players, despite your cultural snobbishness at best and outright xenophobia at worst.

Edited July 6 by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[Joe MacCarthy]

1 hour ago, CanadaFan123 said:

That’s not what happened. He said it when asked what he said to the team after Belgium. 
 

“I told them they belong here and we’re going to go and eff— Croatia,” he said with a smile in FIFA’s official post-game pitchside interview. “That’s as simple as it gets.”

In Qatar, Herdman was asked about his comments made during a huddle after the team’s closely fought battle with Belgium Wednesday.

“Did you really say after last night’s match that you were going to F-word Croatia? And if you did, is that underestimating Croatia as runner-up of (the) last World Cup?”

“Great question,” Herdman said. “And yeah, I did. You say those things in an impassioned moment, trying to inspire your team in a huddle.

[TGAA_Star]

[CanadaFan123]

2 hours ago, Joe MacCarthy said:

In Qatar, Herdman was asked about his comments made during a huddle after the team’s closely fought battle with Belgium Wednesday.

“Did you really say after last night’s match that you were going to F-word Croatia? And if you did, is that underestimating Croatia as runner-up of (the) last World Cup?”

“Great question,” Herdman said. “And yeah, I did. You say those things in an impassioned moment, trying to inspire your team in a huddle.

That was him once again reiterating it but he literally said it on the pitch in his post match interview. There was no hot mic.