Jesse Marsch: CanMNT manager

[Obinna]

The comments in the Canada-Marsch thread at r/ussoccer are pretty interesting, if not funny. 

The big thing which stood out to me are the comments about our player pool and how this job is a step down for Marsch. 

Now, trying to see this from the eyes of American fans, I sort of get it. Our player pool is obviously smaller and Marsch was linked to the South Korea job, which (in the eyes of Americans wanting their coaches at a high level) would have been a bigger appointment.

BUT....this perspective really contrasts to how Marsch came across, as he was excuding so much excitment about coaching us. He was repeatedly talking up our player pool, specifically the attacking options, athleticism and football intelligence. The football intelligence part really stood out to me in a good way, as I believe this to be a feature of our group that generally goes unrecognized. 

Ultimately, what the American fans think doesn't matter, and whether or not it's partly sour grapes because they are stuck with GGG is their problem, but what I can say as a Canadian fan is that I am very, very excited about this appointment.

I personally think Marsch and the CanMNT are very natural fit, and Jesse explains why and it makes sense. Again, this seems to be in contrast to the prevaling opinion in that subreddit, which again comes off as sour grapes to me, or maybe just a failure for them to recognize just how good our attacking options are. I mean, they know Canada are better in attack than defense, but they seem to believe they will just play through our press (if/when we press) and rip us apart that way. Jesse is not a bunkering coach and they don't think we will "bunker" like we did under Herdman.

Obviously biased here, but i'd like to think he will get the most out of Davies and Buchanan, who are elite wide players in this confederation.

I am particularly interested to see what Buchanan looks like under Marsch. I've always thought Buchanan was comparable to Timothy Weah, who is a big time player for American fans, but Weah is trending down with Juventus and Buchanan is trending up with a superior Inter Milan side, yet I get the sense American fans see us as the Davies/David show, maybe with a shout for Eustaquio if they are feeling generous. It's that sort of hubris I find interesting and it's what caused me to write this long winded post.

I would love nothing more than to go further than the states in Copa America, then give me an away draw in the fall against the US. I don't even need a win, just a draw, with some spicy pre/post-match jabs at Berhalter from Marsch......and they'll be in toxic melt down mode for sure, and it'll be glorious!

 

[MtlMario]

1 hour ago, Mihairokov said:

South Korea

I believe Craig Forrest said that's not true.

[Joe MacCarthy]

4 minutes ago, MtlMario said:

I believe Craig Forrest said that's not true.

IIRC he said it was agent talk

[costarg]

17 minutes ago, Joe MacCarthy said:

Let's not forget a guy many around here don't like (for no valid reason) Brym.  There's a reason Herdman and the managers in Holland have him around.  I saw him do a Bombito type run on a highlight film, he can move, I think the problem is he makes it look too easy.

It's funny, I personally, don't dislike Brym.  Obviously want to see him succeed and make Canada better.  However, I've specifically commented on his lack of pressing, running and sense of urgency with Canada.  He has talent, it's the lackadaisical trotting about when called on to close out or chase a match that stood out for me.  Millar > Brym all day and every day for me.  Herdman just didn't see Millar playing higher up for some reason.

[costarg]

15 minutes ago, Obinna said:

The comments in the Canada-Marsch thread at r/ussoccer are pretty interesting, if not funny. 

The big thing which stood out to me are the comments about our player pool and how this job is a step down for Marsch. 

Now, trying to see this from the eyes of American fans, I sort of get it. Our player pool is obviously smaller and Marsch was linked to the South Korea job, which (in the eyes of Americans wanting their coaches at a high level) would have been a bigger appointment.

BUT....this perspective really contrasts to how Marsch came across, as he was excuding so much excitment about coaching us. He was repeatedly talking up our player pool, specifically the attacking options, athleticism and football intelligence. The football intelligence part really stood out to me in a good way, as I believe this to be a feature of our group that generally goes unrecognized. 

Ultimately, what the American fans think doesn't matter, and whether or not it's partly sour grapes because they are stuck with GGG is their problem, but what I can say as a Canadian fan is that I am very, very excited about this appointment.

I personally think Marsch and the CanMNT are very natural fit, and Jesse explains why and it makes sense. Again, this seems to be in contrast to the prevaling opinion in that subreddit, which again comes off as sour grapes to me, or maybe just a failure for them to recognize just how good our attacking options are. I mean, they know Canada are better in attack than defense, but they seem to believe they will just play through our press (if/when we press) and rip us apart that way. Jesse is not a bunkering coach and they don't think we will "bunker" like we did under Herdman.

Obviously biased here, but i'd like to think he will get the most out of Davies and Buchanan, who are elite wide players in this confederation.

I am particularly interested to see what Buchanan looks like under Marsch. I've always thought Buchanan was comparable to Timothy Weah, who is a big time player for American fans, but Weah is trending down with Juventus and Buchanan is trending up with a superior Inter Milan side, yet I get the sense American fans see us as the Davies/David show, maybe with a shout for Eustaquio if they are feeling generous. It's that sort of hubris I find interesting and it's what caused me to write this long winded post.

I would love nothing more than to go further than the states in Copa America, then give me an away draw in the fall against the US. I don't even need a win, just a draw, with some spicy pre/post-match jabs at Berhalter from Marsch......and they'll be in toxic melt down mode for sure, and it'll be glorious!

 

They can keep Berhalter and criticize us and Marcsh all they want.  I'm totally ok with that.

I'd be flipping out if we had nominated dead wood like Berhalter as coach.

[frmr]

1 hour ago, Cheeta said:

Still a bad look.  Always was going to be.  Bit concerning the CSA is caught off guard a bit by that.  

I'm doubtful we'll see the scheme mirrored by any mature soccer nation anytime soon.

 

I don't understand why this is a bad look. To me, the bad look is that we're fucking broke and our federation has been a complete and utter joke for the past few decades. That's the bad look. Actually trying something different to remedy the situation for once? Call me crazy, but to me that's a good look. This is Canada Soccer, we're lucky to have our bread buttered on one side, never mind both. Unless some unsavoury details come out about this deal, which to this point there has been none (unless I'm missing something), this seems like a brilliant move to actually inject some funding into a program that was otherwise dead in the water. Stadium sponsor, good. Kit sponsor, good. Fucking Weetabix half-time show, good. But manager title sponsor, bad! I just don't understand why it matters. And I literally mean that, I don't actually understand why people are upset about it. Because it's new/different? Because other countries aren't doing it? Because people are personally embarrassed by it? It has been said ad nauseam on this forum that we need more corporate money in the program, that money doesn't grow on trees, that we need someone with some fresh creative ideas to generate some new value in the program, and now that that literal thing is happening, people are upset by it. The reality of Canada Soccer at this point in time is: get creative or be poor. I know what I'm picking.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

 

12 hours ago, red card said:

If it's like NCAA model, they get their name plastered here & there + VIP access but otherwise, it's about personal legacy, passionate about a sport/school and giving back

I don't know the direct connection but I would guess that the NCAA thing grew from the fact that philanthropically funded "chairs" have been a thing in the actual academic parts of universities for a very long time.  

Your name and money doesn't mean you get to pick person or control them.  

We all probably got school awards at whatever level,  named after someone because they gave similar (if smaller) monies.

These owners want their name out there and being associated, hopefully, with football success.  Legally not much else is allowed.

[Joe MacCarthy]

6 minutes ago, costarg said:

It's funny, I personally, don't dislike Brym.  Obviously want to see him succeed and make Canada better.  However, I've specifically commented on his lack of pressing, running and sense of urgency with Canada.  He has talent, it's the lackadaisical trotting about when called on to close out or chase a match that stood out for me.  Millar > Brym all day and every day for me.  Herdman just didn't see Millar playing higher up for some reason.

That's how I saw Tajon the other day in the time before he scored.  I never noticed it before and posted that he looked weak on D.  He looked like he was trotting around (if that) ball watching.

With Brym though I think it is self fulfilling prophecy.  The Voyageurs have a time honoured tradition of having a whipping boy and Brym is this generations.  He can do no right no matter what he does and yet managers see something in him to keep him in the Ere Divisie and on the CMNT much of the time.

Part of the problem, is like Ugbo, and Cornelius the intermittent playing time doesn't help build consistency.

[DrunkOffPunch]

1 hour ago, InglewoodJack said:

We have one of the paciest teams in the world, so this actually gets me really excited to see how it’ll look in practice. Our backline and keepers are not strong enough to protect leads against big teams, but this will make for very exciting football which was not always the case with Herdman and Biello. 
 

When you say in game management was poor, are you talking about his substitutions? I feel like this is one way this could go sideways.

I think a player like Liam Millar is going to thrive under Marsch. Fast player, excellent on the counter attack. Plus, if he does play rather narrow, this means he’s probably being used more as an AM/second striker which I think he prefers anyways. 

It’ll definitely be interesting. I don’t think you’ll have problems scoring goals.

 

Mostly tactics. He’s a typical Red Bulls coach and doesn’t know anything else. Way too easy to break his press and then all of a sudden the CBs are on islands. Relied way too much on his DMs to cover ground and put out fires. It was the same stuff on repeat over and over again.

 

I think you’ll end up getting a lot of surprise results, both good and bad.

[SpursFlu]

Hopefully now the negative articles will stop

Edited May 14 by SpursFlu

[Watchmen]

I keep forgetting that Marsch also essentially had both the Southampton and Leceister jobs, only to walk away from them over contract details. So, other Premier League teams (albeit, ones also in relegation territory) were interested in him.

[costarg]

OK y'all, it's been almost 24 hours!  Enough chit chat.  Lets begin the Marsch formation discussions!!!

 

 

[MtlMario]

Any player made a comment on the hiring yet?

Edited May 14 by MtlMario

[InglewoodJack]

49 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

 

I don't know the direct connection but I would guess that the NCAA thing grew from the fact that philanthropically funded "chairs" have been a thing in the actual academic parts of universities for a very long time.  

Your name and money doesn't mean you get to pick person or control them.  

We all probably got school awards at whatever level,  named after someone because they gave similar (if smaller) monies.

These owners want their name out there and being associated, hopefully, with football success.  Legally not much else is allowed.

It might be even more related to how the NCAA does things when you consider the role of boosters. If you're a local businessman in SEC country, you might give the school money to pay for the new gym, and you might give the starting quarterback a "Generous car lease" and "reasonable off-campus housing", but you also might raise concerns to the school's athletic director that the backup quarterback may lead to some unhealthy competition for the starting spot, so it may be better to (strongly) encourage him to enter the transfer portal and go to a different school.

Giving MLS teams "naming rights" over the headcoaches could lead to CANMNT calling all of these MLS players over other more deserving players or whatever, but ultimately, our country has many eurosnobs as well, people want to watch teams that play well, and it makes no sense whatsoever to prioritize domestic over international players, and even the guys who are paying for the naming rights know this. Ryan Raposo isn't getting called in over Theo Corbeanu because VWC feels like they could use the marketing bump from having yet another national team player on their roster.

[Joe MacCarthy]

 

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

12 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

It might be even more related to how the NCAA does things when you consider the role of boosters. If you're a local businessman in SEC country, you might give the school money to pay for the new gym, and you might give the starting quarterback a "Generous car lease" and "reasonable off-campus housing", but you also might raise concerns to the school's athletic director that the backup quarterback may lead to some unhealthy competition for the starting spot, so it may be better to (strongly) encourage him to enter the transfer portal and go to a different school.

Giving MLS teams "naming rights" over the headcoaches could lead to CANMNT calling all of these MLS players over other more deserving players or whatever, but ultimately, our country has many eurosnobs as well, people want to watch teams that play well, and it makes no sense whatsoever to prioritize domestic over international players, and even the guys who are paying for the naming rights know this. Ryan Raposo isn't getting called in over Theo Corbeanu because VWC feels like they could use the marketing bump from having yet another national team player on their roster.

I would disagree.

I think that if you put the MLS name on it, (which I don't love for other reasons,) you invite a lot of critical and even legal scrutiny.

I think that's one difference between a "chair" and the backers you talk about. A lot of the backer stuff has been done over the years on the (to be generous) semi-legal sly.  The whole point of a chair and this name is to be brightly visibile, that also puts it under microscope for those that want to find fault.  Really silly to start trying stuff like that when your name is the first thing in the title. 

Edited May 14 by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[Joe MacCarthy]

^^ I have to say Charlie Davies is making me feel a little better about the decision

[Obinna]

12 minutes ago, Joe MacCarthy said:

 

"Allistar Johnston? Okay....Richie Laryea, Adekugbe, Miller?....okay.......but then...Cornelius, Bombito, Waterman....."

- Charlie Davies

 

My thoughts:

Okay, granted that Waterman could be viewed as a mid-level MLS CB, but Bombito is getting rave-reviews right now, no? Then, is Charlie not aware he's been a rock at Malmo and is being linked to Feyenoord and Ajax? Probably not. I guess I should give him a pass, since Cornelius hasn't been a standout recently for Canada, but again being linked to those Dutch giants is a big deal.

Another thing, Johnston being thrown into this group and labeled as "okay" feels a little dismissive to me. Allistair has been ever-present for Celtic, no different than Cameron Carter Vickers, who is a borderline starter for the USMNT. I somehow get the sense Charlie (and American fans at large) would describe CCV as above "okay", but there you go....

[toontownman]

Looking at what USMNT supporters and pundits think about this...

 

 

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

Just now, toontownman said:

Looking at what USMNT supporters and pundits think about this...

 

 

I would probably say the same about Leeds supporters...generally.

[SpursFlu]

Am I the only one who thinks a coach's role on a national team is overrated anyways. It's more about squad selection and can the guy not annoy our players for 10 days than any kinda tactical masterclass

Edited May 14 by SpursFlu

[Watchmen]

1 hour ago, costarg said:

OK y'all, it's been almost 24 hours!  Enough chit chat.  Lets begin the Marsch formation discussions!!!

 

 

He's already fucked it up! How long until we're out from his contract? Which managers are available???

[InglewoodJack]

29 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

I would disagree.

I think that if you put the MLS name on it, (which I don't love for other reasons,) you invite a lot of critical and even legal scrutiny.

I think that's one difference between a "chair" and the backers you talk about. A lot of the backer stuff has been done over the years on the (to be generous) semi-legal sly.  The whole point of a chair and this name is to be brightly visibile, that also puts it under microscope for those that want to find fault.  Really silly to start trying stuff like that when your name is the first thing in the title. 

You can still pull strings in the background- large benefactors with names on buildings, classrooms, scholarships, whatever can still influence different players a school recruits or even the type of politics a school backs publicly. Even in my day, some students booked a former Montreal Expos executive to speak to the school but they had to rescind the invite after a ton of financial backers- some who came out publicly and some IIRC had their names on various parts of the school- and said that they'd withdraw funding if this guy was able to speak.

If MLS did this as a power move to gain influence over our national team- which I don't think is the case and even if it were I don't think making our team more MLS-based is how they would go about things- they would be subtle about it. Take a fringe domestic player over a fringe player in Europe. Guarantee that 2 of your 5 subs are MLS players every game. Stuff that wouldn't even be worth investigating, even if people thought something was sketchy.

16 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

I would probably say the same about Leeds supporters...generally.

Ellis from AwayDays, my favourite soccer youtuber is already prepping for the potential Marsch v Bielsa matchup at Copa. Think he said he'd retire from YouTube if Marsch beats him.

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, MtlMario said:

Any player made a comment on the hiring yet?

Apparently the players were coy overall, with a bit of a wait-and-see approach, which makes sense. 

There was one player, who wanted to remain nameless, that had a "fuck-me" response to Jesse's hire, given his high tempo style of football. No clue whether the comment was made in jest or in anger...

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

1 minute ago, InglewoodJack said:

If MLS did this as a power move to gain influence over our national team- which I don't think is the case and even if it were I don't think making our team more MLS-based is how they would go about things- they would be subtle about it. Take a fringe domestic player over a fringe player in Europe. Guarantee that 2 of your 5 subs are MLS players every game. Stuff that wouldn't even be worth investigating, even if people thought something was sketchy.

Your example was again something out in the open.  They didn't want their name associated with something, in the open. Different from pulling strings behind the scenes. 

 

There are FIFA rules about interfering with the national team.  I would hope we are not that silly.