Bison44 Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 16 minutes ago, Aird25 said: Wasn't Bombito in the US College system for several years? Does that indicate a problem with the Canadian system? Sure does. Fewer/poor coaches, academies, leagues, teams, poor or no evaluation of these kids at a younger age. We have the physical specimens here, we have kids that want to play soccer. SO many of our guys end up in NCAA, grind there until they are 21-22 and become good pros and eventual CMNT team contributors. Its almost like we have entire swaths of the country where many players are stunted and are about 2-3 years behind what they probly should have been with a more developed infrastructure in canada. phresh, Kadenge, Sal333 and 5 others 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red card Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 (edited) 1 hour ago, Aird25 said: Wasn't Bombito in the US College system for several years? Does that indicate a problem with the Canadian system? 1 season at University of New Hampshire. He didn't want to go to a PLSQ team to sit on the bench. He went to Collège Ahuntsic. He didn't play for CFM academy teams or Canadian youth teams. Looks like the first people to really see his talent were former Cdn international Ribeiro and a former Cdn futsal player at their combine. But Bombito still spent 2 seasons at Iowa Western Community College. He was converted to defender from striker. Then in 2022, he played for Seacoast United Phantoms in USL 2 before going to UNH. He left UNH after being invited to a MLS draft evaluation camp and then was given GA status. Edited July 16 by red card Unnamed Trialist and P-O 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpg_29 Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 12 minutes ago, Bison44 said: Sure does. Fewer/poor coaches, academies, leagues, teams, poor or no evaluation of these kids at a younger age. We have the physical specimens here, we have kids that want to play soccer. SO many of our guys end up in NCAA, grind there until they are 21-22 and become good pros and eventual CMNT team contributors. Its almost like we have entire swaths of the country where many players are stunted and are about 2-3 years behind what they probly should have been with a more developed infrastructure in canada. It just doesn't make sense though. Are coaches/scouts looking for the wrong things? Is this system just not in place to properly facilitate and evaluate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison44 Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 ^^ I dont know, but the story is so familiar, never got to a MLS academy (duh there is only 3 (and how can they possibly catch every good teenager? escpecially when they dont even live on those cities). Never got a sniff at CDN youth teams, but enough talent to go to a NCAA school, get better (?) coaching there, build the skill set they prob should have had when they when 16-17, and work thier way into MLS sides with decent success rates compared to your average NCAA draftee. CPL should help, that choke point at 18-19 isnt so small with another 8 pro teams out there spread across the country. Eventually they need to find thier place working with local amatuer clubs or starting their own academies. Having the L10, PLSQ, BC etc teams involved in the V cup should bring that level up, and we've seen there isnt a lot of difference between the best there and the worst in CPL. So, getting better..sure i think so. But big answers? FIxes..who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadenge Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 11 minutes ago, mpg_29 said: It just doesn't make sense though. Are coaches/scouts looking for the wrong things? Is this system just not in place to properly facilitate and evaluate? It's a good question. Larin, Richie, Tajon, AJ, Bombito, DSC & Tani who all played at Copa went through NCAA. I assume none were offered a contract by any of the 3 MLS clubs or their academy when younger. When you see the natural skills and instincts of Kone & Laryea you have to wonder why they weren't in an MLS academy at an early age. KSB & Sigur are more recent examples. Work ethic and attitude is something that can be instilled in most players but pure talent is worth taking a shot at. To me it points to scouting. It's a huge opportunity for the CPL to scout and grab some of these players at an early age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpg_29 Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 1 minute ago, Kadenge said: It's a good question. Larin, Richie, Tajon, AJ, Bombito, DSC & Tani who all played at Copa went through NCAA. I assume none were offered a contract by any of the 3 MLS clubs or their academy when younger. When you see the natural skills and instincts of Kone & Laryea you have to wonder why they weren't in an MLS academy at an early age. KSB & Sigur are more recent examples. Work ethic and attitude is something that can be instilled in most players but pure talent is worth taking a shot at. To me it points to scouting. It's a huge opportunity for the CPL to scout and grab some of these players at an early age. I wonder if NCAA has been/still is the preferably route given the state of North America soccer salaries. Many at least in Canada are coming from immigrant backgrounds probably see the university route as the more conservative safer option? johnyb 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phresh Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 (edited) 27 minutes ago, mpg_29 said: I wonder if NCAA has been/still is the preferably route given the state of North America soccer salaries. Many at least in Canada are coming from immigrant backgrounds probably see the university route as the more conservative safer option? It probably is and for good reason, it has arguably proven to be the best transition between youth and professional for Canadian players. There are very few in Canadian MLS academies who've made the jump between reserves and first team, even less who've become stars. And then we are seeing in CPL it's quite hard for the few young teens to break in and establish themselves, many are stuck on the bench, get garbage time, are sent down to League 1. I find it odd, given we see many L1 academy players go to NCAA, get drafted and break through in MLS. As I've stated before, this upcoming freshman class seems pretty loaded, players with a lot of experience in L1 senior, some have been on CPL development deals and others involved with the national team. Names include Anthony Morano, Braden Stevanovic, Simon Guardiero and Remi Agunbiade on Halifax. Another thing, I count 9 players on TFC U19 committed to NCAA, so it seems many recognize they have higher odds of reaching pro by going abroad. Edited July 16 by phresh GasPed 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P-O Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 (edited) I hope the D3 closes this gap. But then again, just in Québec, if you live north or east of Québec city, you are done. No clubs to play for. You can't drive 3h to a practice without getting paid. I think that is why Beauport is quite successful right now, there are no club close to them. Québec is ready for a d4, the rest of the province cannot cope with the talents coming from Montreal. Sherbrooke, Trois-Rivières & another club in South Québec would be a good start. Saguenay? Rimouski? Let's go! Edited July 16 by P-O JamboAl, Bison44 and Obinna 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpg_29 Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 A CPL team in Quebec and another in Southern Ontario would probably help gigi riva, MtlMario, johnyb and 4 others 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
costarg Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 16 hours ago, mpg_29 said: It just doesn't make sense though. Are coaches/scouts looking for the wrong things? Is this system just not in place to properly facilitate and evaluate? 15 hours ago, Kadenge said: To me it points to scouting. It's a huge opportunity for the CPL to scout and grab some of these players at an early age. We're assuming scouting is as easy as hiring a waiter. Scouting talent is a serious job. It takes more than a coaching license and some experience playing to watch hundreds of kids and spot the ones with the true ability. Even once scouted, it takes more than just a coach and minutes to develop these players. Coaching is one thing, but understanding what's in that teenagers mind, how he's thinking, and bridging the gap between raw skill/athleticism and a pro takes real talent and instinct, it's more than just hiring guys off the street. We have the kids with talent what we're missing is the scouts/coaches to bring them to the next level. This is what is holding us back today. gator and narduch 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpg_29 Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 (edited) 33 minutes ago, costarg said: We're assuming scouting is as easy as hiring a waiter. Scouting talent is a serious job. It takes more than a coaching license and some experience playing to watch hundreds of kids and spot the ones with the true ability. Even once scouted, it takes more than just a coach and minutes to develop these players. Coaching is one thing, but understanding what's in that teenagers mind, how he's thinking, and bridging the gap between raw skill/athleticism and a pro takes real talent and instinct, it's more than just hiring guys off the street. We have the kids with talent what we're missing is the scouts/coaches to bring them to the next level. This is what is holding us back today. It still seems like it is all starting with poor scouting rather than coaching. A lot of the players we are "discovering" at ~23 are still kinda raw athletes to some degree. So it's not like they are necessarily getting better coaching once we "missed them". I don't know much about the scouting/coaching system in Canada but I wouldn't be surprised if it isn't necessarily based on merit/ability rather than simply those who are involved in soccer/old boys club etc... That sort of thing exists in a lot of industries. Edited July 17 by mpg_29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
costarg Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 3 minutes ago, mpg_29 said: I don't know much about the scouting/coaching system in Canada but I wouldn't be surprised if it isn't necessarily based on merit/ability rather than simply those who are involved in soccer/old boys club etc... That sort of thing exists in a lot of industries. You nailed it. Also needs to be said, the academies are run like businesses. They scout the kids that can afford to go to their camps, and they're really expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearcatSA Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 I would be interested in some good reading on the subject of early bloomers/late bloomers in sport. I googled a book about it by Callum Man appropriately called Late Bloomers and Early Bloomers: The Sports Science Behind It. Has anyone read this? Does anyone have other suggestions? PastPros 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestHamCanadianinOxford Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 16 minutes ago, costarg said: You nailed it. Also needs to be said, the academies are run like businesses. They scout the kids that can afford to go to their camps, and they're really expensive. That is true elsewhere but things like solidarity payments make developing a top player worth the outlay required in developing every player, for a medium, small or even tiny club. You just have a natural interest that keeps these clubs afloat if the luck of the draw does not produce a bankable player for a while. red card 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadenge Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 Scouting AND development are two different requirements to keep the conveyor belt fed and moving. We need competent and qualified people in both areas, but I'm not sure scouts have to be as highly trained or have to be licensed coaches. It's not difficult to spot young players who clearly display a natural ability on the ball or have superior soccer IQ. Some may not have the work ethic or mental attitude to progress but that's for the development process to weed out or correct. We need to ramp up the number of players that are funneled into higher development programs. The pyramid needs to grow but that takes funding. Bison44 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red card Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 7 hours ago, costarg said: You nailed it. Also needs to be said, the academies are run like businesses. They scout the kids that can afford to go to their camps, and they're really expensive. It's more they market to the parents as they are the paying customer. So, development is focused on what the parents want which is often not best practices such as winning u10 trophies. It's often focused on getting NCAA scholarship as the end goal (especially for women). In most of the rest of the world, the paying customer is a club. So, the development focus is on making a player ready for a pro pathway. Proactive scouting plays a key role in the business model. Academies start at much earlier ages. Canuckia 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinceA Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 He's certainly getting a crash course on the rollercoaster that is Canadian Soccer right now. NVsoccer, Addona, YorkRegionFan and 3 others 2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOcanadafan Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 4 minutes ago, VinceA said: He's certainly getting a crash course on the rollercoaster that is Canadian Soccer right now. Hopefully he can help with leading Canada Soccer out of this mess. canucksfan, Canuckia, costarg and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahmedou Posted August 16 Share Posted August 16 Blessed to have Marsch Others have Pochettino TOcanadafan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdheid Posted August 16 Share Posted August 16 42 minutes ago, ahmedou said: Blessed to have Marsch Others have Pochettino Here he is in Edmonton this weekend checking out PDP Nationals. https://x.com/4totera/status/1824447788832248014?t=Rk7bMDEQKY-xF8NS0YUhbg&s=19 johnyb, toontownman, Canuckia and 9 others 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vasi Posted August 16 Share Posted August 16 I love this. Looks like we found a guy who is doing more grunt work then Herdman! "Fuck those drones, I'll just get in a hot air balloon" johnyb, Kadenge, NVsoccer and 8 others 8 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borjans Sweatpants Posted August 16 Share Posted August 16 2 hours ago, jdheid said: Here he is in Edmonton this weekend checking out PDP Nationals. https://x.com/4totera/status/1824447788832248014?t=Rk7bMDEQKY-xF8NS0YUhbg&s=19 That’s awesome to see. I really love the amount of work he’s putting in, seems truly dedicated and I know he’d love nothing more than to spank the US and Poch toontownman, Obinna, Corazon and 7 others 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahmedou Posted August 16 Share Posted August 16 2 hours ago, jdheid said: Here he is in Edmonton this weekend checking out PDP Nationals. https://x.com/4totera/status/1824447788832248014?t=Rk7bMDEQKY-xF8NS0YUhbg&s=19 In Canadian French we say: ''Jesse Marsch le plus canadien des américains'' ❤️ Addona, MtlMario and jdheid 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdheid Posted August 16 Share Posted August 16 47 minutes ago, ahmedou said: In Canadian French we say: ''Jesse Marsch le plus canadien des américains'' ❤️ It's good to set goals for oneself! ahmedou 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red card Posted August 16 Share Posted August 16 (edited) If you want to watch what Jesse is watching, all matches are being streamed by Canada Soccer. Edited August 16 by red card ahmedou and Canuckia 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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