Colonel Green Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 25 minutes ago, kacbru said: I think you are missing the point here. I won't speak for others, but the thing that bothers me is not the named job title. I'm completely fine with innovative revenue streams - the <insert name here> head coach is fine. Blue should be congratulated for that. However, what does bother me is that it is the MLS branded head coach for the CMNT. MLS - the league sanctioned by the USSF is sponsoring and has naming rights to OUR head coach. The league that represents the Federation of our direct rivals! That's a problem for me. MLS is also our top league, whether people like that or not, and the federation has leaned heavily on Kerfoot in particular for money over the years already. Kusch to the Corner, johnyb and Kadenge 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kacbru Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Acid-Tone said: I think you're getting hung up on semantics. Marsch's hire was facilitated by "major philanthropic contributions" from the owners of the three Canadian-based MLS clubs — Vancouver Whitecaps, Joey Saputo and Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment. They rightly assumed that naming the position the "Vancouver Whitecaps, Joey Saputo and Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment Canada Men's National Team Head Coach" would be a bit much. So they shortened that to: MLS Canada Men's National Team Head Coach [shrug] Perhaps. But I suspect the nuance behind how this transpired and what it actually represents might be lost in the post-match interview with the MLS Canada Men's National Team Head Coach when we upset Argentina. edit: bad example, no one will give a shit about anything if we upset Argentina. Edited May 14 by kacbru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 2 minutes ago, Colonel Green said: MLS is also our top league, whether people like that or not, and the federation has leaned heavily on Kerfoot in particular for money over the years already. It's not ours - if it was, Canadians would be domestic across the board narduch, MtlMario, Shway and 3 others 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe MacCarthy Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 Shway and Canuckia 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kacbru Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 5 minutes ago, Colonel Green said: MLS is also our top league, whether people like that or not, and the federation has leaned heavily on Kerfoot in particular for money over the years already. Whatever Kerfoot has done in the past, he was not doing it on behalf of MLS, so I don't see how that is relevant. He provided significant funding to the Women - it didn't come with MLS branding. Ivan, Cheeta and Shway 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acid-Tone Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 (edited) - Edited May 14 by Acid-Tone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acid-Tone Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 21 minutes ago, Ansem said: Like Gomez was saying in his podcast, money from MLS (a single-entity league) is never free. I never heard that, I only know Gomez - Airstream Driver Kent 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearcatSA Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 (edited) 2 hours ago, Acid-Tone said: I think you're getting hung up on semantics. Marsch's hire was facilitated by "major philanthropic contributions" from the owners of the three Canadian-based MLS clubs — Vancouver Whitecaps, Joey Saputo and Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment. Well, if he is being paid on the tax write off dime of these three, then he should be easier to sack if things turn pear shaped. I don't care about manager nationality or the MLS shilling stuff. I care about results and whether or not we are developing as an NT under Marsch's stewardship. If we are not getting those positive trending results, then I'll start having serious concerns. And that would be my take on any manager we hire, even a Cancon. Edited May 15 by BearcatSA Canuckia, Ivan and Corazon 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red card Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 21 hours ago, costarg said: He already knows French, he learned it in his short time with the Impact. The guy really goes all in and does the home work. No short cuts. Canuckia and narduch 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red card Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 Star's Arthur sources say MLS teams didn’t have input into the process, or the preferred candidate, and were chiefly driven by the looming men’s World Cup in 2026. If Canada Soccer bombs in that tournament, it could further slow or even reverse soccer’s momentum in Canada... https://www.thestar.com/sports/soccer/cash-strapped-but-creative-canada-soccer-gets-its-man-to-coach-the-mens-national-team/article_d21ad3c0-116d-11ef-b00d-3ba132d16730.html johnyb, Corazon, Canuckia and 5 others 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mihairokov Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 (edited) "Herdman was making $700,000 or so; Marsch was reportedly demanding a couple million to coach South Korea’s men’s team, and one source told the Star the Korean offer was more than $2 million per year. This is a three-year contract that lasts through 2026 and whatever the number, it’s not a small one." Canada Soccer's deficit last year was $4M, for context. Edited May 15 by Mihairokov Shway and johnyb 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattd97 Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 I'm really enjoying half the ppl saying MLS teams are using their bribe to make the CMNT select MLS players and half the ppl saying MLS teams are using their bribe to make the CMNT avoid selecting MLS players h coach, chalms04, Kadenge and 12 others 7 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reggietfc Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 1 hour ago, Ansem said: It's not ours - if it was, Canadians would be domestic across the board lol ....maybe we should jus play cpl players...if the cpl is around in 2 years ,maybe the csb should pay for a coach and 75% of the players will come from the cpl...god forbid other leagues help develop canadian players and coaches Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narduch Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 4 minutes ago, reggietfc said: lol ....maybe we should jus play cpl players...if the cpl is around in 2 years ,maybe the csb should pay for a coach and 75% of the players will come from the cpl...god forbid other leagues help develop canadian players and coaches He's not wrong though. Canadians should count as domestics on all MLS teams. That has nothing to do with the CPL. MtlMario, Unnamed Trialist, The Real Marc and 4 others 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reggietfc Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 1 minute ago, narduch said: He's not wrong though. Canadians should count as domestics on all MLS teams. That has nothing to do with the CPL. i want the cpl to do well,,,and some of mls rules are not fair,but this mls canada paying for a coach paranoia is jus stupid Corazon, Ivan and Ed_S 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unnamed Trialist Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 (edited) More on the MLS funding question. -The USSF backs and supports MLS as part of their national strategy, and in fact there is a reciprocity happening there that is meant to strengthen US soccer programs. So in principle, a league being an ally of a national program is not unusual. In many national leagues the rules regarding foreign players, labour laws and the Bosman ruling notwithstanding, are meant to help the development of players in the service of the national teams. -The contribution from the MLS owners likely has tax benefits, as the CSA is an association. And because they call it "philanthropic", not an investment or share in the post, nor a trust (see below) -If this is like a sponsorship, how is it set up so that the money is not being managed by CSB? In my opinion, CSB would have a case to say that they should take that revenue if indeed it is sponsorship going to the CSA. So since I think that is not the case, this contribution is being treated as an exception perhaps? Was that negotiated with CSB? -The payments are likely a certain quantity yearly over the period of the contract, 3 years. I am thinking it could be 200-250 thousand each a year. Marsch makes a million and his team (ADs, physios, goalkeeping coach, tactical) another half or 2/3 of a million. The CSA pays 60% of the package and the donations cover 40%. But that is guessing. -The CSA likely made the proposal and could even have tied it to some policies: we won't touch sanctioning of Canadian teams in MLS if you help us out. Or no fee raises for MLS teams (right now the three MLS teams each pay 30,000 as a fee annually to the CSA, which is really low). Or promising to not push on the status of Canadians in MLS, which is discriminatory as we have no labour reciprocity with American players. Yes, in a pleasantly extortionary way. The CSA has fleeced this out of the MLS clubs. -Overall, it is odd they could get this approved so quickly after the CSA president hiring, he likely just rubber-stamped the entire previously agreed deal. There was no time for him to make any contribution whatsoever, unless, anticipating his election, they ran it by him informally a few weeks ago. -We don't know if the possible candidates all said "hey, that financial offer is low", forcing the CSA via Blue to think about it, or if they only began to deal with it after they'd decided on Marsch and salary was a box left unticked in the negotiation. We could even imagine Blue making an initial gesture weeks or more ago, like would you help us somehow, and then focused on this need specifically. -As also mentioned, Kerfoot used to help the women's programme considerably, that is one clear precedent. in comparison, and considering their wealth, Saputo and MLSE have done piss all. Or am I wrong? -Will there be pressure for reciprocity for the women's programme? On Footy Prime they brought it up and it's a good point. Perhaps Bev needs a raise anyways, especially if we can get into quarters or semis at the Olympics. Or will it mostly go in another direction, to the new women's league? In any case, the creative formulas to pay more for the men's programme will have to be extended partially at least. -Another factor in payback could be promising a friendly in each respective stadium, though that is more complicated as Saputo and the Caps are just tenants: revenue from gate for the CMNT does not go to them. While it is true that a deal could see Caps make a larger % of revenue off a BC Place friendly, as a mediator or commissionist of sorts, that possible "payback" does not work as cleanly or evenly as we might think. -The name resembles not just sports posts at NCAA, but the sports references are borrowed directly from chairs and professorships, often sponsored or endowed. And in Canada as well, so we need not even go south of the border. An endowed chair or professorship means the capital is untouched, unlike a term chair or professorship, which runs out. Indeed, if we were really using the endowment model, we'd be drawing from a generous trust managed by trustees or a board, enabling an extremely stable long-term contribution and not tied to a short-term contract like here. It is not a bad idea. -Such hypocrites the guys at One Soccer or Footy Prime or other media, mainstream or not, laughing at the name, saying they were just going to ignore it. Because when the Voyageurs Cup comes along they often refuse to call it by that name, and are servile to whatever sponsor we have that year. The Nutrilite Canadian Championship back around 2010, now it's the Telus, they kowtow to that business, paying heed to the demands of the CSA to highlight their sponsor's name, and disrespect the true name of the Cup. To the point of totally ignoring it at times. We are in a country where we have the Grey Cup and the Stanley Cup, which are rare in world sport (America's Cup in sailing (the other Copa America btw), Davis Cup, are exceptions), and we say those names proudly, even though the Stanley Cup playoffs have many sponsors, the broadcasters do too, but overwhelmingly the press is not subservient to them. We all use the honourable historical names and refer to the silverware. -Has the CSA even registered and acquired trademark control of the name "Voyageurs Cup"? -MLS is obviously a dumb prefix for the job position, as mentioned, it is the easy solution to a complicated set of sponsors who have no collective tag. Edited May 15 by Unnamed Trialist Kusch to the Corner, Acid-Tone, narduch and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
costarg Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 2 hours ago, kacbru said: I think you are missing the point here. I won't speak for others, but the thing that bothers me is not the named job title. I'm completely fine with innovative revenue streams - the <insert name here> head coach is fine. Blue should be congratulated for that. However, what does bother me is that it is the MLS branded head coach for the CMNT. MLS - the league sanctioned by the USSF is sponsoring and has naming rights to OUR head coach. The league that represents the Federation of our direct rivals! That's a problem for me. Just curious, what does it change though? Would you have preferred if it was CPL? I mean even if the MLS is sanctioned by USSF, it was still the 3 Canadian team owners contributing the money, not the MLS or anyone in the USA. I don't see how it can really influence anything either, we know anyone in the top 5 leagues will get called in before MLS players and very unlikely anyone from the CPL gets to go to the WC. Corazon and Canuckia 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kacbru Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 29 minutes ago, costarg said: Just curious, what does it change though? Would you have preferred if it was CPL? I mean even if the MLS is sanctioned by USSF, it was still the 3 Canadian team owners contributing the money, not the MLS or anyone in the USA. I don't see how it can really influence anything either, we know anyone in the top 5 leagues will get called in before MLS players and very unlikely anyone from the CPL gets to go to the WC. For me, it has nothing to do with MLS vs. CPL - the CPL Canada Men's National Team Head Coach would still have the potential for perceived conflict. I would have no problem if the three ownership groups came up with a clever name to reflect their contribution - the Kerputo Leafs Canada Men's National Team Head Coach. But they didn't - it is the MLS. And MLS (as far as I'm aware) have not put anything in - yet they are branded as the sponsor. So while the money may be coming from Canada, the perception is the #1 league in the US pyramid is sponsoring the CMNT head coach. Completely unnecessary own goal in my opinion. Mihairokov 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 6 hours ago, Hawkguy said: It's insane that these people are what we have to listen to in Canada as far as experts. There's zero chance Mauro would EVER be considered for a Bundesliga job, let alone a Premier League job. I wouldn't even expect Mauro to get a legitimate shot a Championship level team, maybe even League 1 in England. Marsch, like him or not, is so far ahead of Mauro that's hilarious to even mention them in the same category. FWIW....I don't think that's because Biello is terrible, it's largely down to the fact he's an unknown commodity in Europe. I am sure there are plenty of League One managers in England who'd never be considered for MLS, whereas Mauro would probably be able to land another gig in MLS with a moderate amount of effort. It's simply because he is/was part of the ecosystem over here, but not over there. So that more than anything is probably why you'd never see Biello in League One, let alone the Championship, then obviously even much chance he'd ever get a Bundesliga job and certainly never a Premier League job, since the higher you get the more you find clubs with resources to move heaven and earth to find excellence, regardless of where that guy is or came from. And on that final point, Nancy is exhibiting excellence right now, so he'll transcend this North American ecosystem before long.....my guess is to Ligue 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmen Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 2 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said: -The contribution from the MLS owners likely has tax benefits, as the CSA is an association. And because they call it "philanthropic", not an investment or share in the post, nor a trust (see below) -If this is like a sponsorship, how is it set up so that the money is not being managed by CSB? In my opinion, CSB would have a case to say that they should take that revenue if indeed it is sponsorship going to the CSA. So since I think that is not the case, this contribution is being treated as an exception perhaps? Was that negotiated with CSB? 1) I think if there's tax benefits to it, it's not a sponsorship (assuming we're both talking about it more in the donation version of it, not an ad expense). 2) ""CSB attempts to take money from CSA that MLS teams were donating to pay the World Cup manager" by Rick Westhead" might be the story that finally breaks the site. Canuckia and Ivan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmen Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 3 hours ago, narduch said: He's not wrong though. Canadians should count as domestics on all MLS teams. Canadians should count as domestics. But I'm going to say, I think we're reaching a practical point where it doesn't actually seem to matter much anymore. Canadian players are now scattered so far and wide across the league, the 2nd most common nationality, and very definitely not restricted to the 3 Canadian teams. I don't think it's as big a deal as it used to be. US - 320 Canada - 42 Argentina - 31 Colombia - 28 Brazil - 28 https://fbref.com/en/comps/22/nations/Major-League-Soccer-Nationalities johnyb, An Observer and Shway 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unnamed Trialist Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 2 hours ago, Watchmen said: Canadians should count as domestics. But I'm going to say, I think we're reaching a practical point where it doesn't actually seem to matter much anymore. Canadian players are now scattered so far and wide across the league, the 2nd most common nationality, and very definitely not restricted to the 3 Canadian teams. I don't think it's as big a deal as it used to be. US - 320 Canada - 42 Argentina - 31 Colombia - 28 Brazil - 28 https://fbref.com/en/comps/22/nations/Major-League-Soccer-Nationalities So imagine if we had reciprocity. It is totally unjust, it is accepted by the CSA, and accepted by the clubs. All the CSA has to do is insist on reciprocity. It is disgraceful and the CSA has dropped the bucket on it since day 1. Cheeta, Corazon, narduch and 7 others 9 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shway Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 3 hours ago, Watchmen said: Canadians should count as domestics. But I'm going to say, I think we're reaching a practical point where it doesn't actually seem to matter much anymore. Canadian players are now scattered so far and wide across the league, the 2nd most common nationality, and very definitely not restricted to the 3 Canadian teams. I don't think it's as big a deal as it used to be. US - 320 Canada - 42 Argentina - 31 Colombia - 28 Brazil - 28 https://fbref.com/en/comps/22/nations/Major-League-Soccer-Nationalities Apologist theory. Remember this was mentioned because it was stated that MLS is our top league, and someone rightfully replied basically with "how if Canadians aren't considered domestic." It's still a big deal because when you take the Canadian teams out of that 42 list, it probably drops drastically. CanadaFan123, narduch, The Real Marc and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sal333 Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 16 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said: But I seriously dislike a coach who is one dimensional. They say he plays narrow, meaning there isn't really positional a transition from defence to attack? Well, get ready to be serious. Shway 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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