Thread for Questioning CPL Attendance Numbers 2024

[Ansem]

I don't understand what's the end game here, but carry on

[MtlMario]

Somebody shut this down. I do not see the point of all this.

[Watchmen]

12 minutes ago, MtlMario said:

Somebody shut this down. I do not see the point of all this.

It's literally the thread for this discussion, so the actual attendance thread doesn't get bogged down. Don't read this one if you don't want to.

[Mihairokov]

9 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

It's literally the thread for this discussion, so the actual attendance thread doesn't get bogged down. Don't read this one if you don't want to.

We could always just shutter this thread and prevent that sort of nonsense from bogging down the other thread by removing the factors that bog it down. It's a joke that this thread exists IMO.

[MtlMario]

28 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

It's literally the thread for this discussion, so the actual attendance thread doesn't get bogged down. Don't read this one if you don't want to.

Why are we even having this discussion? How is this making anything better? Maybe you and another guy here likes it I guess.

[Aird25]

9 minutes ago, MtlMario said:

Why are we even having this discussion? How is this making anything better? Maybe you and another guy here likes it I guess.

Exactly. Just because this is the appropriate thread for the discussion, doesn't mean the discussion should be happening at all. 

[Watchmen]

1 hour ago, MtlMario said:

Why are we even having this discussion? How is this making anything better? Maybe you and another guy here likes it I guess.

Why discuss attendance at all then? Close both threads and be done with it.

[shermanator]

What if the mods just banned the poster who has been at this for years? Then we could have legitimate discussion on the topic.

Does Ozzie have to start comparing the Voyageurs to Nazis for this to happen? That's the only way they banned Robert...

Edited June 7 by shermanator

[fil]

Oh boy! Things must be getting out of hand when people are asking for Nazi talk on the CPL forum...

 

[Aird25]

4 hours ago, Watchmen said:

Why discuss attendance at all then? Close both threads and be done with it.

I do think there's too much focus on attendance and too little on actual footballing matters in this forum, but I can understand how attendance trends provide a certain degree of incite into each clubs health. What we see in this thread is a far cry from anything inciteful or legitimate though. It's one person's vendetta, and yourself 

[fil]

Attendance isn't a reliable metric to judge the health of a club.

Many Florida teams have in the past have had below average attendance figures for teams in some sports but they also oddly had higher than average viewers on television for some reason. 

We have no idea on the sales of merchandise on CPL teams. Or on revenue generated from sponsors. Some teams might be better at keeping costs of running a team better than others and could be more financially viable despite low attendance numbers.

Alot of variables to judge a team other than how many bums on seats. Of course winning should help a team financially.

[Watchmen]

31 minutes ago, Aird25 said:

I do think there's too much focus on attendance and too little on actual footballing matters in this forum, but I can understand how attendance trends provide a certain degree of incite into each clubs health. What we see in this thread is a far cry from anything inciteful or legitimate though. It's one person's vendetta, and yourself 

I know, which is why I didn't mind this being split off as a separate thread. I think it's worked mostly as intended and if someone isn't interested in it it's an easy thread to avoid.

[Watchmen]

18 minutes ago, fil said:

Attendance isn't a reliable metric to judge the health of a club.

Many Florida teams have in the past have had below average attendance figures for teams in some sports but they also oddly had higher than average viewers on television for some reason. 

We have no idea on the sales of merchandise on CPL teams. Or on revenue generated from sponsors. Some teams might be better at keeping costs of running a team better than others and could be more financially viable despite low attendance numbers.

Alot of variables to judge a team other than how many bums on seats. Of course winning should help a team financially.

I'll disagree, in that I think it's still really a gate driven league. That's not a knock. That's a lot of leagues, including the CFL, MLS, and the NHL to a certain extent. We knew it was a problem in Edmonton (who folded) and in York (who the league had to take over). You're right, it's not the only factor. I worry less about Winnipeg because being owned by the same people who own the stadium still probably makes it work. But, attendance is still a major factor in the health of teams.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

For those who are interested in confronting reality on this topic, how things are going with ticket sales in a Winnipeg context on the Ticketmaster website is worth checking out through to the end of the season. Executive summary is that they appear to have a lot of work to do to consistently hit the 5000 number that Wade Miller has mentioned as being a must because they don't have that many full season ticket holders:

https://www.ticketmaster.ca/search?q=valour+fc

The Valour have the largest active capacity in the league at around 7000 seats in the 16 active subsections opposite the Onesoccer cameras so around 70% seat occupancy half way through each half would translate to the 5000 number Wade Miller highlighted (AFAIR that was the one he quoted this season, last season i believe he mentioned 4500 for ongoing sustainability) actually being there. The active sections only looking around a quarter full at best as has often been the case in the past IMO means that the crowd is likely to be under 2000 actual.

Edited June 8 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[longlugan]

And there lies the problem. No one is interested in your reality.

[CDNFootballer]

8 hours ago, longlugan said:

And there lies the problem. No one is interested in your reality.

And its a faulty reality from the little parrot, comparing apples (tickets sold) to oranges (tickets scanned), counting dots on ticketmaster, watching highlights and cherry picking a partial look 5 minutes into a game when many are not in their seats till 30 minutes into the game for example. But it suits his narrative so he goes with it.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Meanwhile back on topic, there are no official numbers on the league website for yesterday's games and I haven't found anything so far on Reddit or Twitter:

https://canpl.ca/matchcentre/a1fd8r8hg5ge768kkg4reafbo/highlights

https://canpl.ca/matchcentre/a1wae67nzbnqlabtfdyz6a49g/highlights

but it sounded like 6046 (?) for the Halifax game when the tannoy announcement was made during the second half. Wasn't fully clear as the commentary team were talking over it. Looked like some people had possibly been deterred by the weather conditions because there were obvious gaps in the main stand ane even close to "the Kitchen". With the Cavalry game the main stand has about 4500 seats AFAIA. If that was 60% full you would probably be looking at 3500-4000 overall by the time you also factored in the other portions of the ground. One of their better crowds by the looks of things.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

No website official number for Valour vs Atletico, while York vs Vancouver was announced as 1167:

https://canpl.ca/matchcentre/a2asixvlxn8oxurfweczsaivo/highlights

https://canpl.ca/matchcentre/a2pluob9onqd9k5iiq3ha42z8/highlights
 

The Valour's announced number will probably be quite high because multiple sections around the right hand corner relative to the Onesoccer camera appeared to be blocked off on Ticketmaster for some large promotion/sale/giveaway. Have a hard time believing there could have been more than 2500 people actually there though with the approximately 7000 seats in the 16 active subsections directly opposite the cameras appearing to be around a third full overall at best.

The main block of seats at York Lions has around 3000 seats so 1167 should have those at around a third full. Watched a small portion of the first half and the crowd shots suggested strongly that actual attendance was nowhere near that level. The highlights provide an example just after Vancouver's second goal from the penalty spot:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVDtceLPi40&t=253

 

Edited June 10 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[jonovision]

https://valourfc.canpl.ca/article/match-report-valour-fc-0-atletico-ottawa-2

Match report gives 4228 as the number. I'll agree with the bird that there likely weren't that many bums in seats. 

Unlike some other teams, I don't think Valour ownership has much incentive to inflate their numbers (Wade wants to kill the team and poor attendance numbers help his case) but for whatever reason there was a big number yesterday.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Latest quasi-official numbers:

 

[longlugan]

5 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Latest quasi-official numbers:

 

Actually numbnuts...if those numbers are put out by the league then they are OFFICIAL.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Definitely a lot more blue dots this week where the Valour vs Pacific game is concerned:

https://www.ticketmaster.ca/valour-fc-vs-pacific-fc-winnipeg-manitoba-06-14-2024/event/1100607AAB68314F

Will be interesting to see if that makes a difference on the numbers actually there. No seat map for the game in Kelowna and no sellout so far:

https://www.ticketmaster.ca/canadian-premier-league-on-tour-in-kelowna-british-columbia-06-16-2024/event/110060A2E2706409

Capacity appears to be 2314:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Bowl

but maybe they have added extra bleacher seating?

 

[CDNFootballer]

^^^ Wait.........can't remember how your CPL attendance conspiracy theory works, are the blue dots good or bad in your micro parrots mind?

Ah shoot, whatever, we'll just wait for your mention of the partial crowd shot 4-5 minutes into the game before everyone gets to their seats and your silly fractional formulas of how this should look like that for this and so and so to be credible numbers. Don't forget to mention its in the context of something that happened 30-40 years ago by the Toronto Metro's Croatia or some bs like that, always makes it funnier!

Edited June 14 by CDNFootballer

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Welcome to my ignore list. No point engaging directly again after a post like that. I have avoided the other thread since it was de-merged to help provide a safe space for people who think announced attendance numbers should always be taken at face value. Is it too much to ask that the people who fundamently disagree with the premise of this thread, which is that pro sports leagues across North America have a long track record of accentuating the positive on attendance numbers for PR spin reasons, simply steer clear in a similar sort of way? It's easy enough to not open a thread you are not interested in after all.

No official number so far for Valour vs Pacific:

https://canpl.ca/matchcentre/a34b211ni5jtoef7absqnwis4/highlights

Is the 7000 seat block of seats even 25% full?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OkALLpuBZE&t=214s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OkALLpuBZE&t=249s

If not, it is a legitimate question as to whether there are actually more than 1500 paying spectators there and anyone who genuinely wants there to be some sort of national pro league setup should be seriously concerned about the longevity of this club, if, as we were told by a Valour fan a few posts up, Wade Miller already wants to cut this team.

 

 

Edited June 15 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[Ivan]

I actually thought the crowd looked pretty good for a typical Valour game? 🤷