Thread for Questioning CPL Attendance Numbers 2024

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

On 5/19/2024 at 6:40 PM, SoccMan said:

...surely the potential is there to realistically one day get crowds to a  6 to 10000 for Forge and even a York United on a regular basis,...

Think you have to deal with the world as it is and not as you want it to be. There have to be reasons why the last lower budget pro soccer team to be able to draw 1000+ fans actual as opposed to announced reasonably consistently in the GTA was Toronto Croatia and that was back in the NSL-CSL era over 30 years ago now. York United's not much more than friends and family following should not have come as a huge surprise to whoever was advising the CanPL investors but apparently did.

The Steelers drew slightly better crowds than the Blizzard and Rockets back in the day but nothing hugely stellar. Take away the games where the Forge/Ticats front office run massive promotions or paper the house and I'm growing increasingly skeptical that things really have moved on in a big way from where things were back in the day in a Hamilton context. If the Forge were playing at somewhere like Brian Timmis stadium with somebody like Mario DiBartolomeo as owner rather than the Ticats would it really be that different? AHL and OHL teams are not a massive draw there because they seem to always want to be on the same level as Toronto for Ticats reasons and CanPL isn't going to provide that for them.

Everything tends to wind back to Halifax being the one big success story at the gate and I think a big part of that is it being the sort of city where major junior hockey works well and is a big story with local media outlets because people are not expecting to have a major league product locally. Also helps that there is less scope for people in the local soccer community there to pedal a that team is really no better than our top amateur or "pro-am" clubs narrative.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Will be interesting to see what sort of uptake Vancouver FC attract for this giveaway:

^^^the OP on Reddit clarified that it should have been Saturday in the title. Definitely appears to have helped them where the opposite side from the cameras and the section around the tunnel is concerned (or maybe that's what they have blocked off from regular sale to cater to the offer :

https://www.showpass.com/vancouver-football-club-single-24-05-27-19-1812/seating/

Edited May 24 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

York announced 1226 for the Halifax game:

https://canpl.ca/matchcentre/9ykaqm20nct4nafb5kzpgn6s4/highlights

which is likely as generously inflated in proportional terms compared to a tickets scanned count as some of the delayed quasi-official numbers from last weekend (I am looking at you Hamilton) that are now available courtesy of Leonard_FC on the platform formerly known as twitter:

Edited May 25 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Ottawa announce 5895 against the Forge according to a post in the match thread which didn't look massively out of whack from what was visible on Onesoccer. Unlike with certain Forge games, sections that need to be almost full for the number to be reasonably credible were reasonably full when Onesoccer focused on crowd shots as they were doing quite a lot during this game. Nothing official on the league website yet:

https://canpl.ca/matchcentre/9yyu615g98s6e15lez8ge4vf8/highlights

but there was a toonie hot dog promotion and a Weiner dog race to help boost the crowd for this one:

and they even opened the North stand which they don't usually do. There weren't all that many fans taking advantage of that, however.

Vancouver announced 3127 against Pacific according to this post on Reddit.

Nothing official on the league website so far:

https://canpl.ca/matchcentre/9zdpsomgjdk714mfmwqt7bh1w/highlights

Unlike the Ottawa number, that appears to be massively inflated compared to an actual tickets scanned number. Just after the first goal the camera pans over the main stand and reveals that very few people are sitting there 5 minutes or so into the game:

 

Edited May 26 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[CDNFootballer]

8 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Unlike with certain Forge games, sections that need to be almost full for the number to be reasonably credible were reasonably full when Onesoccer focused on crowd shots as they were doing quite a lot during this game

Vancouver announced 3127 against Pacific according to this post on Reddit.

Unlike the Ottawa number, that appears to be massively inflated compared to an actual tickets scanned number. Just after the first goal the camera pans over the main stand and reveals that very few people are sitting there 5 minutes or so into the game:

Your comparing apples to oranges as usual. Tickets sold number and scanned will be different, nothing to do with credibility.

Re VFC, relying on a crowd shot in the first 5 minutes of the game is ignorant and means nothing. Wait till 30 minutes in because seats typically don't fill in fully till around that time at the stadium.

[Watchmen]

3 hours ago, CDNFootballer said:

Your comparing apples to oranges as usual. Tickets sold number and scanned will be different, nothing to do with credibility.

Re VFC, relying on a crowd shot in the first 5 minutes of the game is ignorant and means nothing. Wait till 30 minutes in because seats typically don't fill in fully till around that time at the stadium.

Can I look at the main grandstand at the final whistle where it still doesn't look very full, and how the end is now tifo instead of fans? It looks like they couldn't even give the tickets away.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

No sign of an announced number for Cavalry vs Valour:

https://canpl.ca/matchcentre/9zsg9dmrm0i3hrskdbxf6j2ms/highlights

But the main stand looked unusually sparse for a weekend game in the highlights. There are also obvious gaps in the crowd right across the end with the supporters section which is something that wasn't happening too often in earlier non-COVID affected seasons

Edited May 27 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Pacific vs Ottawa in the Canadian Championship generously announced as 2810:

https://canadasoccer.com/events/championship-match/?matchId=4794

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Last weekend's Calgary game remains a mystery even to Leonard_FC:

 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Can't find a number so far for Forge vs York:

https://canpl.ca/matchcentre/a0712e7an6kirvbmz6cf8mb6c/highlights

Definitely one of their better crowds this season but judge for yourselves what that should realistically translate to in terms of an attendance number from this clip of the 4000 or so seats opposite the camera:

There is up to around 1500 in capacity potentially in use on the Onesoccer camera side (1000 or so for sure) that is not visible in this clip.

Pacific vs Cavalry announced as 3264:

https://canpl.ca/matchcentre/a0lwksh4r6dlxew4th5vimiok/highlights

Also definitely one of their better turnouts this season but 3264 appears on the generous side to me given my understanding is that there are around 5100 seats and that implies they should be around 60% full. Judge for yourselves from the highlights:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vggM6V9uGgs

 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

No official number on the league website for Ottawa vs Halifax:

https://canpl.ca/matchcentre/a10qj54me404mdvdyp1ysnz84/highlights

but 5224 has been mentioned on the game thread. The 9 sections that are usually in use in the lower bowl contain about 400 seats each for a total of around 3600, while the corresponding mezzanine sections above that have about 80 seats each for a total of around 700. Given how full those were 4000+ is definitely reasonable. Not sure there were enough people in the lesser used end zone sections of the lower bowl and the Cabin general admission section behind the goal for it to be 5000+ actual but maybe I'm missing something.

No official number so far for the Valour vs Vancouver game:

https://canpl.ca/matchcentre/5kbfiwtayk9vlfiob347qfd3o/highlights

and given the long weather delay there's probably not a lot of point try to gauge anything from the highlights on that one.

 

[jonovision]

4262 is the number provided by Ed Tait (WFC communications boss). The crowd at the scheduled kick off time was definitely close to that number. For sure more people in the building than for any match last year.

Unfortunate that so many had to leave, but Valour is offering anyone who attended the match on a youth ticket free entry to Friday's match. Good promotion/customer relations move.

[shermanator]

Point 1 - Yesterday's match drew 38% higher than Valour's average attendance last year.

Point 2 - Yesterday's match drew more than any Cavalry, Vancouver or York crowd this year.

Point 3 - Obviously not all people who paid for the match stuck around through the 2 hour rain delay

Point 4 - Let's fucking gooo

Edited June 3 by shermanator

[jonovision]

1 hour ago, shermanator said:

Point 1 - Yesterday's match drew 38% higher than Valour's average attendance last year.

Point 2 - Yesterday's match drew more than any Cavalry, Vancouver or York crowd this year.

Point 3 - Obviously not all people who paid for the match stuck around through the 2 hour rain delay

Point 4 - Let's fucking gooo

If one is looking for a negative, it's that after having months to sell tickets for game 1, the games will now be coming thick and fast with little lead time.

And that so many weren't able to stick around and watch a rare home win.

Definitely more positives than negatives though.

[JamboAl]

14 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

No official number on the league website for Ottawa vs Halifax:

https://canpl.ca/matchcentre/a10qj54me404mdvdyp1ysnz84/highlights

but 5224 has been mentioned on the game thread. The 9 sections that are usually in use in the lower bowl contain about 400 seats each for a total of around 3600, while the corresponding mezzanine sections above that have about 80 seats each for a total of around 700. Given how full those were 4000+ is definitely reasonable. Not sure there were enough people in the lesser used end zone sections of the lower bowl and the Cabin general admission section behind the goal for it to be 5000+ actual but maybe I'm missing something.

No official number so far for the Valour vs Vancouver game:

https://canpl.ca/matchcentre/5kbfiwtayk9vlfiob347qfd3o/highlights

and given the long weather delay there's probably not a lot of point try to gauge anything from the highlights on that one.

 

On the Ottawa attendance: 

1) it was really hot in the sun-many people were in the concourse looking for shade

2) tried to buy tickets for a friend last minute…there were only single seats left from Section V to Q.  Had to put them in Y.  

5,224 is about right in real numbers too.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Looks like the Cavalry are doing what needs to be done to fill more seats in their main stand:

[shermanator]

That promotion has been going on for years you fucking idiot.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

^^^in my experience, guys who behave like this online usually turn out to be about five foot two with an expression like a petrified goldfish when you finally get to meet them in real life. They will suddenly do all the things they are too scared to do in real life once they have a keyboard to hide behind basically.

It's worth noting that the absence of this promotion was being highlighted on Reddit earlier this season and given the main stand was unusually sparse at the last Cavalry home game I am not surprised that it would be highlighted again. 

Edited June 6 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[longlugan]

53 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

^^^in my experience, guys who behave like this online usually turn out to be about five foot two with an expression like a petrified goldfish when you finally get to meet them in real life. They will suddenly do all the things they are too scared to do in real life once they have a keyboard to hide behind basically.

It's worth noting that the absence of this promotion was being highlighted on Reddit earlier this season and given the main stand was unusually sparse at the last Cavalry I am not surprised that it would be highlighted again. 

Really? You of all people on here are going to play the tough guy?

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[SpursFlu]

When passive aggressive meets aggressive 

@Ozzie_the_parrotwe get you're on a crusade here but maybe just dial it back from 10 to 1 back handed compliments, subtle digs, insincere conversations, thread hijacks per day

There aren't a lot of outlets out there for CPL fans to discuss the league and it's a bit much bro. We get it. You can critique the cpl but it's over the top

Vancouver FC is doing a father's Day promo. Ah look it seems Vancouver FC is having a hard time getting father's to go watch their games. Golly 

Edited June 6 by SpursFlu

[shermanator]

I'm happy to critique CPL attendances. In fact, I have critiqued attendances for a number of clubs including my own this year. Including the aforementioned section where I indicate that those seats simply aren't selling this year when in past year's they were sold out every game.

I have less than zero patience for the one person crusade to kill the game in my city, be it men's or women's. 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Forge claim a number of 5271 apparently:

Find that impossible to rationalize in terms of the available seating and what we saw on Onesoccer.

[kacbru]

Wild idea - instead of tuning in to Onesoccer to count fans in the stands, try watching the game. You might get more enjoyment out of it. 

[Mihairokov]

I didn't go back to my seat for the second half of the last Ottawa game. Make sure you account for that in your head counting Ozzie

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

There's no great mystery to any of this. When Halifax announces a sellout there aren't too many empty seats by about halfway through either half because most people who spend their hard earned cash to watch a soccer game are going to want to actually watch that soccer game. In Hamilton numbers that are not too far off full capacity in terms of the actively available seating are being announced when the largest block of seats appears to be not much more than half full around half way through either half. Seriously doubt a couple of thousand people are hiding somewhere up on the concourse because they failed to return to their seat so I'll file that comment under M for...