General MLS Talk 2024

[Mihairokov]

Long overdue. Frisco has long been one of the most underwhelming parks in MLS.

[SoccMan]

7 hours ago, Mihairokov said:

Long overdue. Frisco has long been one of the most underwhelming parks in MLS.

And BMO Field which is hosting the World Cup is only getting temporary seating , no real renovations, slowly becoming one of the worst stadiums in MLS .

[Mihairokov]

3 minutes ago, SoccMan said:

And BMO Field which is hosting the World Cup is only getting temporary seating , no real renovations, slowly becoming one of the worst stadiums in MLS .

Sure, it doesn't need to be an either/or situation. We can always demand more as both MLS and CMNT/CWNT fans but our demands will only go so far with our overlords.

[Watchmen]

8 hours ago, Mihairokov said:

Long overdue. Frisco has long been one of the most underwhelming parks in MLS.

It's still in a bad location.

[costarg]

On 9/17/2024 at 10:20 PM, Watchmen said:

 

 

Huh, covered seats in Texas, who woulda thunk?  What a novel idea.  

[Big_M]

nancy loses another final to a mexican team as america beats columbus in the campeones cup...lafc wins the open cup over skc and it has to be the nail in the coffin for peter vermes as they also got eliminated from playoff contention earlier...they just cant let him operate another rebuild

[Watchmen]

1 hour ago, Big_M said:

nancy loses another final to a mexican team as america beats columbus in the campeones cup...lafc wins the open cup over skc and it has to be the nail in the coffin for peter vermes as they also got eliminated from playoff contention earlier...they just cant let him operate another rebuild

Wonder if Vermes will voluntarily step aside at year end or be forced out.

[Big_M]

its possible neither of that happens as he has a contract until 2028 and theyve backed him even after his many failures...but theyll destroy their fanbase if they keep him

[Big_M]

wolff is finally gone...made playoffs once in four seasons

Austin FC Parts Ways with Head Coach Josh Wolff

[narduch]

In the West the Decision Day will hardly matter. All 9 teams are set. A few may be able to move up or down 

[Watchmen]

 

 

[BearcatSA]

6 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

 

 

Speaking about Malcolm Gladwell on another thread, it sounds like the Fire hired him to do the slogan for this.

[red card]

The match up between 2 marquee MLS teams and a marquee player largely lived up to expectations on the pitch but not on tv.

Colombus v Miami on Wednesday October 2 only produced 76k on FS1 and 81k on Fox Deportes. So, the casuals, that some continually clamour for, continue not to watch men's North American club football. In the 3 years before MLS Season Pass, MLS season average was 150-170k on FS1.

English language casuals in the US are only watching Prem matches between the big clubs. 2.2m watched Chelsea/Man City on the opening weekend.

Viewership is also fragmented across many leagues. On the same Wednesday, UEFA Champions League, USL, Futsal World Cup, English Championship, Concacaf W Champions Cup & other MLS matches were all available to watch in the USA. 

 

[red card]

Bobby Warshaw who is a former American player turned media guy and now in sports advisory business showed up on Soccerwise podcast to answer a question from Dan H in Vancouver. What do MLS teams need to do into turning more academy players into better pros.

He didn't provide the usual answers. He said it's a falliacy to think it will happen organically. Intentional mechanisms are needed. MLS is more hindered than other leagues because of it's structure (closed league, salary cap etc..) and higher ownership wealth. 

Nothing MLS can do about US being behind in grassroots since u10 kids are less likley to be exposed to competent coaching and football culture compared to the top 10 nations.

MLS is doing well in pre-pro stage (14-15s) based on tourney results. That's because MLS is focused on developing a group of players or team rather than stars. So, a MLS team will defeat River Plate at the GA Cup. But the River Plate team will end up producing Enzo Fernandez & Julian Alvarez. 

Best predictor of career arc is how many pro minutes played between 17-19 (early pro). Clubs need intentional (i.e. business model/rules) structures to get these players pro minutes. Example of a league rule would be CPL u21 minutes rule but as Marsch said, the age needs to be lowered.

Intentionality is needed because 17-19 year olds don't train hard enough to be selected in the team's best 11 consistently. Short coaching lifespans means it is too risky to put their paycheque on the line by playing the kids. Brentford's motto is "Do you have the guts to give them 30 matches?"

Around the world, there are 2 reasons why teams play their young players. Selling players is a key revenue stream as the 3 others (matchday, sponsors, media). It is often the diffrence between a huge operating deficit and a manageable one. MLS owners don't need to sell players to avoid a major operating loss. Many are already rich & team valuations are increasing. 

Many teams globally don't budget for seasoned squad depth. They don't have 30+ yr old backups that can play over a 17 yr old. 

All the top player development clubs in the world are also the giants in their league. They can play at least one 17-19 yr old because their other 10 can win them most matches. In a league of manufactured parity and playoffs, MLS teams don't have this built in advantage. 

One solution is to spend nearly all of the MLS salary cap on the top 13-14 which forces usage of young players. And one hack is that the RB should always be an academy player.

MLS academies spent US$1.5m to $8m (Union) per year. Teams that care spend $3-6m. MLSNP operating costs are about $1m/yr. So, on average, MLS teams are spending $4m/yr on player development. 

Starts at 26:58. 

https://open.spotify.com/episode/4KZJzwnUxnOKX5zUcpLJhJ

 

As per CIES, in the 2023 season, Sounders led with 33% of minutes played by club trained players (3 yrs with club between 15-21 age). TFC was 3rd at 24.8%, CFM was 4th at 24.5% and WFC was at 2.3%. 7 teams were 0-1%.

Edited Thursday at 01:43 AM by red card

[Macksam]

On 10/12/2024 at 11:11 PM, red card said:

The match up between 2 marquee MLS teams and a marquee player largely lived up to expectations on the pitch but not on tv.

Colombus v Miami on Wednesday October 2 only produced 76k on FS1 and 81k on Fox Deportes. So, the casuals, that some continually clamour for, continue not to watch men's North American club football. In the 3 years before MLS Season Pass, MLS season average was 150-170k on FS1.

English language casuals in the US are only watching Prem matches between the big clubs. 2.2m watched Chelsea/Man City on the opening weekend.

Viewership is also fragmented across many leagues. On the same Wednesday, UEFA Champions League, USL, Futsal World Cup, English Championship, Concacaf W Champions Cup & other MLS matches were all available to watch in the USA. 

 

I take it no Apple numbers were released?

[Macksam]

10 hours ago, red card said:

Bobby Warshaw who is a former American player turned media guy and now in sports advisory business showed up on Soccerwise podcast to answer a question from Dan H in Vancouver. What do MLS teams need to do into turning more academy players into better pros.

He didn't provide the usual answers. He said it's a falliacy to think it will happen organically. Intentional mechanisms are needed. MLS is more hindered than other leagues because of it's structure (closed league, salary cap etc..) and higher ownership wealth. 

Nothing MLS can do about US being behind in grassroots since u10 kids are less likley to be exposed to competent coaching and football culture compared to the top 10 nations.

MLS is doing well in pre-pro stage (14-15s) based on tourney results. That's because MLS is focused on developing a group of players or team rather than stars. So, a MLS team will defeat River Plate at the GA Cup. But the River Plate team will end up producing Enzo Fernandez & Julian Alvarez. 

Best predictor of career arc is how many pro minutes played between 17-19 (early pro). Clubs need intentional (i.e. business model/rules) structures to get these players pro minutes. Example of a league rule would be CPL u21 minutes rule but as Marsch said, the age needs to be lowered.

Intentionality is needed because 17-19 year olds don't train hard enough to be selected in the team's best 11 consistently. Short coaching lifespans means it is too risky to put their paycheque on the line by playing the kids. Brentford's motto is "Do you have the guts to give them 30 matches?"

Around the world, there are 2 reasons why teams play their young players. Selling players is a key revenue stream as the 3 others (matchday, sponsors, media). It is often the diffrence between a huge operating deficit and a manageable one. MLS owners don't need to sell players to avoid a major operating loss. Many are already rich & team valuations are increasing. 

Many teams globally don't budget for seasoned squad depth. They don't have 30+ yr old backups that can play over a 17 yr old. 

All the top player development clubs in the world are also the giants in their league. They can play at least one 17-19 yr old because their other 10 can win them most matches. In a league of manufactured parity and playoffs, MLS teams don't have this built in advantage. 

One solution is to spend nearly all of the MLS salary cap on the top 13-14 which forces usage of young players. And one hack is that the RB should always be an academy player.

MLS academies spent US$1.5m to $8m (Union) per year. Teams that care spend $3-6m. MLSNP operating costs are about $1m/yr. So, on average, MLS teams are spending $4m/yr on player development. 

Starts at 26:58. 

https://open.spotify.com/episode/4KZJzwnUxnOKX5zUcpLJhJ

 

As per CIES, in the 2023 season, Sounders led with 33% of minutes played by club trained players (3 yrs with club between 15-21 age). TFC was 3rd at 24.8%, CFM was 4th at 24.5% and WFC was at 2.3%. 7 teams were 0-1%.

I think this problem will largely solve itself as the league starts earning higher revenues. When the cap goes to a certain level where million dollar salaries become mean/median in the league, more of our top athletes in both countries will opt to choose the sport. We are not going to become like France, Germany or Spain where there are uniform youth development initiatives across the country, and I don't really think either country needs that. Both Canada and the USA naturally produce gifted athletes due to our collective culture of participating in numerous contact sports, and I believe in a few years both countries will have enough youth that have the drive to do it on their own, and we will hit that sweet spot of having a great group of 20 to 24 guys that will make us consistently competitive going forward. I see no issue with North American players being a large minority in this league going forward, it certainly isn't going to hinder anything considering that minority, say 15 to 20% of the league will be top tier players based on merit. 

Edited Thursday at 11:41 AM by Macksam

[red card]

On 10/17/2024 at 7:22 AM, Macksam said:

I take it no Apple numbers were released?

Last year, Apple/MLS execs spilled some viewing/subcriber numbers and third party firms modelled sign ups due to Messi.

But nothing released this year for any individual match or subscriber numbers. Garber said this week at a London conference that hurdle rate to trigger revenue share hasn't been reached.

“If this works, we share in the revenue. If we’re sharing the revenue, we’re making lots of money.

I’m happy for to go on forever because what are you looking for from a media partner? Revenue, support from a marketing and promotion perspective and insights and data, which for MLS is super important and there is no bigger data insights company in the world than Apple.

We weren’t getting enough in terms of exposure, schedule, and promotion from the linear networks, because we’re not just competing against the other leagues. We’re competing against every single football league that is selling their rights in the United States.”