CNL Play-In for Copa America: Canada vs Trinidad & Tobago - Saturday, March 23, 2024 - Frisco (greater Dallas), Texas

[Unnamed Trialist]

14 hours ago, costarg said:

It's not disloyal or immature.  Bigger and younger players have walked away from international duty. It's just pro sports.  Borjan is on a stacked team in a league that offers no competition. 

Davies' Bayern has had less competition for over a decade than any team Borjan was ever on, only this year it has changed. For a long stretch there Partizan dominated in Serbia, Bayern never was challenged like that.

If lacking competition is a factor we could also question Johnston, Celtic have won 9 of the last 10 leagues. 

They are weak arguments, imo, because then if I say he played Conference League, you'll come back saying they were knocked out, or am I wrong? So we are saying having competition is a mark against you and not having little is too?

Borjan has played Champions League, and fairly recently, Crepeau has never played anywhere near that level. And St. Clair, he is a fairly big step down from Crepeau.

[Obinna]

17 minutes ago, CanadaFan123 said:

Are we really going to start Click to edit in a big match like this though? I get that the Dutch are looking at him too but I think we need to go with experience. 

Click to edit needs to leave Unattached FC first.

19 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

The issue with this is that both Staq and Kone started as defensive-ish mids but now both tend to be more attack minded.  There is no true CDM in that formation. Plus both Davies and Buchanan love to join the attack.  I think this formation is our entry into the idea that we exchange haymakers and just rely on finding the back of the net more than they do.   Which I think would probably happen - but not sure it’s how I want to approach the game.  This group looks solid on paper, but in reality it sort of proposes playing 3 strikers, 2 wingers, and 2 attacking mids.   While 4 of those players could be assigned defensive duties, it is sort of like the extreme version of skipping leg-day.   

In that formation I think we need Staq and Kone to be defensive-ish and that's a trade off I would make to let David dictate play. For me he's the most intelligent player we have offensively speaking. He's such a good finisher, but it's kind of a waste not having him dictate play in the final 3rd.

Also, Staq and Kone have offensive capabilities, but we don't have a high level CDM, so playing them as attacking 8s is going to leave us exposed, I fear. In the future, Bombito (here's your cue @Bigandy) could possibly be that player given his ability on the ball and his athleticism. He's also raw and playing CB right now for Colorado, and right now he can be a viable starter for Canada in a back 4 or back 3. 

IF we had a player like Tyler Adams, I would say okay let's play with dual 8s in front of him. Instead, we have Samuel Piette, who thrives as a destroyer at the MLS level, but against top teams it always looks like he's just treading water out there. 

Another factor is where Staq is in his career arch. Right now he's at his peak athletically, but he won't have those legs forever. I think in a couple of years he'll settle back into being more of a deep lying 8 or a 6, so maybe as he ages we will use him like that. 

I wonder if we could play Kone at the top of the triangle, if not David, but Kone has exceptional athleticism. I think you want him playing between the boxes as much as possible, rather than being closer to the forwards.  

Edited March 15 by Obinna

[MtlMario]

I hope the lack of Unattached FC players doesn't hurt us.😊

[Bigandy]

22 hours ago, Obinna said:

I think Garcia is probably closer to Leon Bailey than Jayden Nelson, just given the sheer amount of goals he's scored for AEK Athens, who are top dogs in Greece now a days, if I am not mistaken. 

If Nelson pans out to be where Garcia is now, I will be very happy. He can get there.

Liam Millar is a hard comparison for me. Maybe the raw talent is similar, but Millar hasn't (yet) proven to be a consistent goal scorer. Garcia has been on fire 

I think Garcia is probably the same threat level as an in-form Sheraldo Becker. 

Bold statement. Not arguing with that at all though.

If he is at baileys/beckers level, that would make him in the top 5 of players ever to transfer from athens with sokratis and kyrgiakos pretty high up. At 26(?) hes alot older than alot of these transfers. 

Without knowing much about him, Im hestitant to call him a player whos on par with guys on top 5 teams in a top 3 league. 
 

[Obinna]

8 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

Bold statement. Not arguing with that at all though.

If he is at baileys/beckers level, that would make him in the top 5 of players ever to transfer from athens with sokratis and kyrgiakos pretty high up. At 26(?) hes alot older than alot of these transfers. 

Without knowing much about him, Im hestitant to call him a player whos on par with guys on top 5 teams in a top 3 league. 
 

I think he's somewhere between Bailey and Becker, actually. At club level, he's outscoring someone like Pineda, who is a regular starter for Mexico, and joined AEK from Celta Vigo. 

[maplebanana]

Does anyone know who has the TV rights to this game? Is it part of Copa America? or part of Nations League?

In Canada it doesn't matter because I think OneSoccer carries it regardless. But for us in the USA, it's the difference between Paramount+ (Nations League) and FOX (Copa America). 

[archer21]

4 hours ago, Obinna said:

I think he's somewhere between Bailey and Becker, actually. At club level, he's outscoring someone like Pineda, who is a regular starter for Mexico, and joined AEK from Celta Vigo. 

It’s really difficult to say how he compares to those guys because of the difference in the level of league they’re in. He’s certainly in incredible form, has a pretty good output last year and insane output this year. It is odd that he was recently scoring much less while in Israel which isn’t a great league. It is certainly possible that he’s just come into his own thought. If he keeps this run of form up, I’m sure he’ll move to a top league soon though and then we’ll have our answer.

[Obinna]

6 minutes ago, archer21 said:

It’s really difficult to say how he compares to those guys because of the difference in the level of league they’re in. He’s certainly in incredible form, has a pretty good output last year and insane output this year. It is odd that he was recently scoring much less while in Israel which isn’t a great league. It is certainly possible that he’s just come into his own thought. If he keeps this run of form up, I’m sure he’ll move to a top league soon though and then we’ll have our answer.

Agreed. The level of play certainly makes it tricky. I suspect he is coming into his own recently, just in terms of goal scoring, but has always been a talented player otherwise. Before he was in Israel he was with AZ and playing in the Eredivisie and Europa league at 18 years old and had 28 appearances across both competitions. 

Not an expert on this guy, but from what I can see it he let his contract expire with AZ, at the age of 20, so that he could play more minutes elsewhere, which is not unsurprising given AZ are generally one of the best Dutch clubs outside the top 3, and he was just 20 years old. 

[narduch]

44 minutes ago, maplebanana said:

Does anyone know who has the TV rights to this game? Is it part of Copa America? or part of Nations League?

In Canada it doesn't matter because I think OneSoccer carries it regardless. But for us in the USA, it's the difference between Paramount+ (Nations League) and FOX (Copa America). 

Pretty sure it's Concacaf as it's Nations League linked.

Which partly explains why One Soccer has the rights in Canada.

We also had to send that 60 man Preliminary roster to Concacaf  

Edited March 15 by narduch

[blueseeka]

Looks like Paramount+

[narduch]

Osorio out for TFC tomorrow with a hip injury. I wonder if he will need to be replaced. And by who?

[TGAA_Star]

1 hour ago, maplebanana said:

Does anyone know who has the TV rights to this game? Is it part of Copa America? or part of Nations League?

In Canada it doesn't matter because I think OneSoccer carries it regardless. But for us in the USA, it's the difference between Paramount+ (Nations League) and FOX (Copa America). 

Every game goes through OneSoccer lol like do you really think they are going to nationally televise games for us unless we are at a major competition 

[blueseeka]

20 minutes ago, narduch said:

Osorio out for TFC tomorrow with a hip injury. I wonder if he will need to be replaced. And by who?

My guess would be Ali Ahmed since he is already in North America. But it could be more of a winger in Nelson or Corbeanu. Outside of that Loturi or Fraser. But I figure it will be Osorio

[maplebanana]

2 minutes ago, TGAA_Star said:

Every game goes through OneSoccer lol like do you really think they are going to nationally televise games for us unless we are at a major competition 

Did you even read the 2nd paragraph you quoted? I said I know it's on OneSoccer in Canada.

I am not in Canada. I was asking for those of us in the USA. Thanks, btw, @blueseeka and @narduch

[Obinna]

25 minutes ago, narduch said:

Osorio out for TFC tomorrow with a hip injury. I wonder if he will need to be replaced. And by who?

Has anyone checked on @costarg? He must be crushed by this news. 

[Obinna]

1 minute ago, blueseeka said:

My guess would be Ali Ahmed since he is already in North America. But it could be more of a winger in Nelson or Corbeanu. Outside of that Loturi or Fraser. But I figure it will be Osorio

My guess is Fraser if Osorio can't go. He's basically on site ready to go.

He's also a CM. A more deep lying profile, but a CM nonetheless.

That makes more sense than rushing Ahmed back - and this is coming from someone who wants to see Ahmed. 

[phresh]

35 minutes ago, maplebanana said:

Did you even read the 2nd paragraph you quoted? I said I know it's on OneSoccer in Canada.

I am not in Canada. I was asking for those of us in the USA. Thanks, btw, @blueseeka and @narduch

I am convinced the one behind that account is a robot

[narduch]

56 minutes ago, blueseeka said:

My guess would be Ali Ahmed since he is already in North America. But it could be more of a winger in Nelson or Corbeanu. Outside of that Loturi or Fraser. But I figure it will be Osorio

Funny thing is Whitecaps are playing in Dallas tomorrow. Could just tell Ahmed to stick around. 

[dyslexic nam]

1 hour ago, phresh said:

I am convinced the one behind that account is a robot

[costarg]

10 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Davies' Bayern has had less competition for over a decade than any team Borjan was ever on, only this year it has changed. For a long stretch there Partizan dominated in Serbia, Bayern never was challenged like that.

If lacking competition is a factor we could also question Johnston, Celtic have won 9 of the last 10 leagues. 

They are weak arguments, imo, because then if I say he played Conference League, you'll come back saying they were knocked out, or am I wrong? So we are saying having competition is a mark against you and not having little is too?

Borjan has played Champions League, and fairly recently, Crepeau has never played anywhere near that level. And St. Clair, he is a fairly big step down from Crepeau.

Comparing the level of Bundesliga to Slovakia?  Seriously?  Even the bad Bundesliga teams are providing better competition than Slovakia.

Johnston, it's a fair question, however at least they have Rangers to keep them honest.  But several people have mentioned the level of Scotland as a concern, this isn't new.  However, even at this level, Johnston is not known for one brain-fart per game, so there is also that.  Johnston also isn't 36 and is fully in the plans for 2026.

It isn't just one thing, there are several reasons Borjan didn't get called up.  Let me just summarize:

• Borjan is not the most focused, which causes brain-farts.
• He isn't the only great shot stopper we have
• He isn't very good with this feet
• CANMNT needs to prepare for the future.  He's 36 and won't be around for 2026,
• He isn't playing at a very high level
• He initiated the TSN turning point vs Jamaica
• Crepeau, Sirois and Dayne have shown they can be just as good, without the downside.

That being said, Borjan probably has the best command of his box.  That is one place the others have not overtaken him.

[costarg]

4 hours ago, Obinna said:

Has anyone checked on @costarg? He must be crushed by this news. 

Wait, do you think I don't like Osorio?

Man we CANMNT fans are truly a special bunch.  Since when is our bias and blind support stronger than our common sense?  What is wrong with pointing out our players level and weakness?  Perhaps therein lies the notion we're not a soccer nation, we let our emotions lead over stats and facts.  Glad Biello had the gaul to do the right thing, if he were reading this board, we'd be rolling out the same 11 in 2030.

[Unnamed Trialist]

15 minutes ago, costarg said:

Comparing the level of Bundesliga to Slovakia?  Seriously?  Even the bad Bundesliga teams are providing better competition than Slovakia.

Johnston, it's a fair question, however at least they have Rangers to keep them honest.  But several people have mentioned the level of Scotland as a concern, this isn't new.  However, even at this level, Johnston is not known for one brain-fart per game, so there is also that.  Johnston also isn't 36 and is fully in the plans for 2026.

It isn't just one thing, there are several reasons Borjan didn't get called up.  Let me just summarize:

• Borjan is not the most focused, which causes brain-farts.
• He isn't the only great shot stopper we have
• He isn't very good with this feet
• CANMNT needs to prepare for the future.  He's 36 and won't be around for 2026,
• He isn't playing at a very high level
• He initiated the TSN turning point vs Jamaica
• Crepeau, Sirois and Dayne have shown they can be just as good, without the downside.

That being said, Borjan probably has the best command of his box.  That is one place the others have not overtaken him.

Why do I get the feeling u just wanted to repeat the term "brain fart" six times in a single post?

Anyways, it's not a technical goalkeeping term.

I agree he's poor with his feet which is why we should be overjoyed to have seen him juggle.

Edited March 16 by Unnamed Trialist

[costarg]

11 hours ago, Obinna said:

Was thinking of the starting 11 this morning and want to toss something out there....

Not saying I think we see this, but I do want to talk about the merits of it....

Now....the back 6 kind of picks itself....and I am not looking to debate that specifically....even though you could change a few things.....like maybe Cornelius for Miller....or Waterman for Cornelius....maybe even Bombito for Johnston.

What I want to talk about here is David at the 10 and Ugbo up front. My thinking here is that we need to get David on the ball more often in general. I believe this team will thrive with David floating around and getting as many touches as possible. I feel that David can sometimes get isolated up top, especially in big games. I am not so concerned for this game specifically, as we should have control for the most part, but moving forward and especially against top teams, I think putting David on the ball will help us gain control. And might as well start that now.

The second part is getting Ugbo on the field. He is a goal machine right now in the Championship. It's great him (and Bair) are called and I expect both will be on the bench itching to get into the match, but why not start him? We still have a hot striker in Bair we could use as a weapon from the bench. We also have two guys in him and Larin who can get onto crosses. And it allows David to drop back a bit to get involved. 

I agree with getting David to drop back and find the ball more often, it worked well for the start vs Jamaica.  Adding another striker isn't the ideal way to get it done. 

The ideal plan would be to start playing a system we can use at Copa and moving forward.  Sure this lineup can work vs T&T, but 7 attack minded players at Copa would be kamikaze style stuff.  We'd get ripped to shreads.  2 strikers is already too much vs the big boys, our mid and backline just aren't strong enough for that formation.  

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, costarg said:

Wait, do you think I don't like Osorio?

Man we CANMNT fans are truly a special bunch.  Since when is our bias and blind support stronger than our common sense?  What is wrong with pointing out our players level and weakness?  Perhaps therein lies the notion we're not a soccer nation, we let our emotions lead over stats and facts.  Glad Biello had the gaul to do the right thing, if he were reading this board, we'd be rolling out the same 11 in 2030.

Naw I know you like him, but I think people think you dislike him so thought that'd get a few laughs.

In all seriousness, I really do understand you don't have it out for Osorio, just in the same way you don't have it out for Vitoria, you just want to see the best version of Canada possible, which we all share. 

[SthMelbRed]

2 hours ago, costarg said:

Comparing the level of Bundesliga to Slovakia?  Seriously?  Even the bad Bundesliga teams are providing better competition than Slovakia.

Johnston, it's a fair question, however at least they have Rangers to keep them honest.  But several people have mentioned the level of Scotland as a concern, this isn't new.  However, even at this level, Johnston is not known for one brain-fart per game, so there is also that.  Johnston also isn't 36 and is fully in the plans for 2026.

It isn't just one thing, there are several reasons Borjan didn't get called up.  Let me just summarize:

• Borjan is not the most focused, which causes brain-farts.
• He isn't the only great shot stopper we have
• He isn't very good with this feet
• CANMNT needs to prepare for the future.  He's 36 and won't be around for 2026,
• He isn't playing at a very high level
• He initiated the TSN turning point vs Jamaica
• Crepeau, Sirois and Dayne have shown they can be just as good, without the downside.

That being said, Borjan probably has the best command of his box.  That is one place the others have not overtaken him.

Seriously, this is one of the stupidest takes I've ever come across on this board, and we all know there have been some doozies in the past. The fact that you're clinging onto it like grim death so many months later staggers me.