CNL Play-In for Copa America: Canada vs Trinidad & Tobago - Saturday, March 23, 2024 - Frisco (greater Dallas), Texas

[dyslexic nam]

2 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Give those kids a proper initiation into being a V.

For most that has historically involved a humiliating loss and a sense of despair so let’s avoid that.   

[costarg]

46 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Exactly, the ball juggling was supposed to have an effect: we are bossing you. It should have given us the swagger, all around, to keep the score where it was.

If then you think that gesture made a bunch of top flight professionals overly cocky on the way to blowing the match, then we must thing these guys are really weak-minded. What happened on that one? Steph turned wrong, Johnston stupidly made a run out of his holding position in the corner, and we cried about a foul. We were not locked down defensively and supporting each other (for me, that is more on Biello not putting out a clear message). But Borjan juggling was not part of the tactical problem on that particular play.

TomaTO TOmato.  Cause and effect.  Every action has a reaction.  Call it what you want, spin it as you will, but we all know and saw what happened. 

Borjan is no Neymar, Canada is not Brazil.  Keep it real, put your head down, stay humble and play your game.  That is who Canada is and the only way we will win.

"Don't poke the bear"  "Don't give bulletin board material"  "TSN turning point" 

Those are all well known sports philosophies.  

Edited March 14 by costarg

[Unnamed Trialist]

32 minutes ago, costarg said:

TomaTO TOmato.  Cause and effect.  Every action has a reaction.  Call it what you want, spin it as you will, but we all know and saw what happened. 

Borjan is no Neymar, Canada is not Brazil.  Keep it real, put your head down, stay humble and play your game.  That is who Canada is and the only way we will win.

"Don't poke the bear"  "Don't give bulletin board material"  "TSN turning point" 

Those are all well known sports philosophies.  

So basically, we're Canadian, wear drab colours, don't speak out of turn, keep all conversation in the first part of the national passive-aggressive, focus on peace, order and good government. 

Sorry, hasn't worked for us in decades, does not work in sports, and it is not actually how we qualified for the World Cup. We had to break with all that puritanical garbage to get out of the trenches. 

Apart from the fact it is totally illogical. Borjan juggling does not cause us to lose, it makes no sense. Or it makes about as much sense as, "one day I was coming home from work singing Teen Spirit on the top of my lungs, feeling great, and when I got home I got the call I was fired. So I never listened to Nirvana again." 

Let's move on from these self-flagellating mentalities.

That argument is equivalent to saying Davies should have let that ball go out vs. Panama at BMO.

 

Let alone that none of the guys left off has a clear and obviously superior replacement. Not one. And then the "new leaf" includes excluding Corbeanu. So I call bullshit.

Edited March 14 by Unnamed Trialist

[dyslexic nam]

23 minutes ago, costarg said:

TomaTO TOmato.  Cause and effect.  Every action has a reaction.  Call it what you want, spin it as you will, but we all know and saw what happened. 

Borjan is no Neymar, Canada is not Brazil.  Keep it real, put your head down, stay humble and play your game.  That is who Canada is and the only way we will win.

"Don't poke the bear"  "Don't give bulletin board material"  "TSN turning point" 

Those are all well known sports philosophies.  

Or, in today’s Tik Tok vernacular, play stupid games and win stupid prizes, or fuck around and find out.

[king1010]

Has trinidad releases their roster? 

[Bigandy]

11 hours ago, costarg said:

That's exactly it, your foundation is 4-5-1, and can be a defensive 4-2-3-1 one game, change one player and be an offensive 4-1-4-1 the next match.  Fundamentally, your lineup, roles and shape stay very similar, there is no major shift in setup or training.  But it makes a huge difference depending on the opponent.  All a question of adapting, yet having a solid base and not reinventing the wheel over and over.  

Switching from back 4 to 3 in the middle of a game is usually an act of desperation and throwing the sink at the problem.  High risk/high reward kinda thinking.    

For sure! Totally agree with this. Having said that, pretty much any system with a back 4 can be the foundation. 4-4-2 can easily be a 4-4-1-1 or a 4-2-3-1 or a 4-5-1 or a 4-3-3. The difference is how high the second forward goes. Same goes for 3-5-2 morphing into 5-3-2 5-4-1 5-2-3 etc. I cant think of a back 4 formation that isnt able to act as a foundation and slightly vary based on one or 2 small modifications. 

The only thing i meant by lazy is that in a specific game its lazy to call all of them 4-5-1. Imagine starting in a 4-1-4-1 and then switch to a 4-2-3-1. The manager says lets play a 4-5-1 and then switch to a 4-5-1. Its not specific enough to communicate the game plan to the players or for us armchair specialists to dissect. 

[shermanator]

25 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

Or, in today’s Tik Tok vernacular, play stupid games and win stupid prizes, or fuck around and find out.

Chat shit. Get banged.

[costarg]

19 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

So basically, we're Canadian, wear drab colours, don't speak out of turn, keep all conversation in the first part of the national passive-aggressive, focus on peace, order and good government. 

Sorry, hasn't worked for us in decades, does not work in sports, and it is not actually how we qualified for the World Cup. We had to break with all that puritanical garbage to get out of the trenches. 

Apart from the fact it is totally illogical. Borjan juggling does not cause us to lose, it makes no sense. Or it makes about as much sense as, "one day I was coming home from work singing Teen Spirit on the top of my lungs, feeling great, and when I got home I got the call I was fired. So I never listened to Nirvana again." 

Let's move on from these self-flagellating mentalities.

That argument is equivalent to saying Davies should have let that ball go out vs. Panama at BMO.

 

Let alone that none of the guys left off has a clear and obviously superior replacement. Not one. And then the "new leaf" includes excluding Corbeanu. So I call bullshit.

It's not so much about Canada as it is about Borjan.  We all know he's a good shot stopper, but isn't the most focused keeper.  There are posts on this board from 6 years ago concerning his blunders.  Those blunders don't instill confidence in teammates.  Borjan is not dominant enough to back up those kind of actions.  No one believed he was good enough to lock out a game, a goal a few minutes later sealed that deal and every single Canadian player felt a little embarrassed.  The capitulation and self doubt had begun.

Most obvious example is Patrick Roy.  He famously would tell his team, just get one goal, nothing is going in my net tonight.  There are interviews with his teammates saying they believed him 100% when he gave those speeches.  Borjan is no where near the level of a Patrick Roy and none of his teammates have that kind of blind faith in him.

It's like a panenka, nail it and you are a god, fail and you're an arrogant clown.  Don't attempt it if you can't back it up.

[Bigandy]

11 hours ago, costarg said:

Waterman has been playing central CB since last year, and he's looked vastly improved since.  I'm also a fan of MacNaughton, but I don't think he's ever played in the center or in been "the organizer".  Pretty sure Zimmerman plays that role.

JKL, Bombito, LDF are definitely the future.  So looking forward to seeing them develop.

This is exactly the challenge I have. LM is slightly a better profile for CCB but not the organizer. Waterman is not the vitoria type to win headers and dominate the box for clearances. Both would work IMO until subtle margins vs better teams expose them. TBH I hope JKL is an organizer because he seems like the most likely profile we have for that. Bombito is better served on the outside to run channels and contribute to the build up play, as is LDF. 
 

[Bigandy]

3 minutes ago, costarg said:

It's not so much about Canada as it is about Borjan.  We all know he's a good shot stopper, but isn't the most focused keeper.  There are posts on this board from 6 years ago concerning his blunders.  Those blunders don't instill confidence in teammates.  Borjan is not dominant enough to back up those kind of actions.  No one believed he was good enough to lock out a game, a goal a few minutes later sealed that deal and every single Canadian player felt a little embarrassed.  The capitulation and self doubt had begun.

Most obvious example is Patrick Roy.  He famously would tell his team, just get one goal, nothing is going in my net tonight.  There are interviews with his teammates saying they believed him 100% when he gave those speeches.  Borjan is no where near the level of a Patrick Roy and none of his teammates have that kind of blind faith in him.

It's like a panenka, nail it and you are a god, fail and you're an arrogant clown.  Don't attempt it if you can't back it up.

I agree that its very hard for a backline when they cannot trust their GK. All of what you are saying is fair. I just dont see how juggling the ball makes a back line not trust their GK AND I dont see how not trusting the GK was related to staqs and kones turnovers. 

A panenka is different because scoring that PK or not has massive influence on the scoreline and how the rest of the game is played. Borjans juggling was not directly related to a goal. 

If our players are so soft that they see their GK juggle the ball and give up, then we need new players. 

The counter argument is that the reason for the shift in momentum was playing a destroying CB at CM. 3 v 2 and our guys/biello didnt react. 

Its tough because using the juggling argument, every single mistake post juggle can be blamed on the juggle. What nonsense. Mistakes happen all the time. 

what about gray going wild, engaging with fans and getting a red.... surely that sort of arrogance is the same.... why did jamaica not crumble? Dest vs T and T?  

The casual connection between juggling and turnovers makes no sense. 

[dyslexic nam]

34 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

So basically, we're Canadian, wear drab colours, don't speak out of turn, keep all conversation in the first part of the national passive-aggressive, focus on peace, order and good government. 

Sorry, hasn't worked for us in decades, does not work in sports, and it is not actually how we qualified for the World Cup. We had to break with all that puritanical garbage to get out of the trenches. 

Apart from the fact it is totally illogical. Borjan juggling does not cause us to lose, it makes no sense. Or it makes about as much sense as, "one day I was coming home from work singing Teen Spirit on the top of my lungs, feeling great, and when I got home I got the call I was fired. So I never listened to Nirvana again." 

Let's move on from these self-flagellating mentalities.

That argument is equivalent to saying Davies should have let that ball go out vs. Panama at BMO.

 

Let alone that none of the guys left off has a clear and obviously superior replacement. Not one. And then the "new leaf" includes excluding Corbeanu. So I call bullshit.

For me, I am glad we seem to have come to grips with the dark arts of CONCACAF, but there is a big difference between playing with swagger and confident, vs playing with arrogance.  The latter is the kind of “Fuck Croatia” motivational material that I prefer to avoid.  It is the same with the teams I have coached.  Instead of chirping the other teams, shut your mouths and beat them on the field.  Play with the confidence that you get from knowing you can beat them, but don’t be a bunch of twats.  

Not saying we lost because of Milan’s juggling - but that is exactly the sort of arrogance and disrespect that will piss someone off and maybe let them find an extra gear.  It isn’t about being drab and meek - it is about being confident in a way that (for me) pairs with our national identity.  Our hockey teams are feared because of what they can do to you but they aren’t hated because of who they are and how they act.   We have been Olympic champions while displaying the kind of quiet but sure confidence that comes from knowing you don’t need to disrespect an opponent because you are going to win and that is enough.  For me, that is the ideal sports ethos for Canadian teams.  
 

[Unnamed Trialist]

25 minutes ago, costarg said:

It's not so much about Canada as it is about Borjan.  We all know he's a good shot stopper, but isn't the most focused keeper.  There are posts on this board from 6 years ago concerning his blunders.  Those blunders don't instill confidence in teammates.  Borjan is not dominant enough to back up those kind of actions.  No one believed he was good enough to lock out a game, a goal a few minutes later sealed that deal and every single Canadian player felt a little embarrassed.  The capitulation and self doubt had begun.

Most obvious example is Patrick Roy.  He famously would tell his team, just get one goal, nothing is going in my net tonight.  There are interviews with his teammates saying they believed him 100% when he gave those speeches.  Borjan is no where near the level of a Patrick Roy and none of his teammates have that kind of blind faith in him.

It's like a panenka, nail it and you are a god, fail and you're an arrogant clown.  Don't attempt it if you can't back it up.

It still has zero relationship to blowing a lead and totally ignores that Borjan gets us to the World Cup. With Crepeau, who also is solid. Neither make any major error on the way to the WC. 

It also ignores that he won for years in Serbia, and is winning in Slovakia. 

Also ignores that Davies blew a penalty vs. Belgium and Eustaquio coughed up an easy ball in front of the box and left him stranded. Or that the worst error of Borjan in Qatar was when we were already eliminated. Davies has had more substandard games with Canada than Borjan. 

For me it is just a feeding frenzy and I find it immature and disloyal as a fan. I get irate with players in the moment, even for dumb details, but I believe you have to take a step back and not go for blood in a way that just betrays immaturity as fans.

Edited March 14 by Unnamed Trialist

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

If we got frustrated with Herdman, we can be frustrated with Borjan.  

They are a couple of the heroes of my adult football life because of what they gave us, but for different reasons, we can and need to be better without them at this point. 

[SpursFlu]

I think the juggling the ball for 2 seconds was a bit goofy. But it didn't cost us the game. It didn't motivate the other team to score more. It isn't some Bill Buckner moment. I don't think it should define Borjan but I think it's convenient because people had been calling for him to be dropped. I for one felt as soon as the last cycle ended we should have changed our focus to the next cycle 

[zeelaw]

Any idea on the Toronto Viewing Party location?

[costarg]

53 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

I think the juggling the ball for 2 seconds was a bit goofy. But it didn't cost us the game. It didn't motivate the other team to score more. It isn't some Bill Buckner moment. I don't think it should define Borjan but I think it's convenient because people had been calling for him to be dropped. I for one felt as soon as the last cycle ended we should have changed our focus to the next cycle 

Agreed, it was not the sole problem, it was just one of the factors and bad judgement.  He was great in his time, but now we move on.  No hard feelings.

[Alex]

https://x.com/ttfootballassoc/status/1768301821498425453?s=46&t=iYDxfXp8bXi-VeAqLde0KQ
 

[Alex]

Just now, Alex said:

https://x.com/ttfootballassoc/status/1768301821498425453?s=46&t=iYDxfXp8bXi-VeAqLde0KQ
 

Trinidad’s roster, I can’t get it to show properly lol

[Metro]

Here you go:

 

[Obinna]

No real surprises. I know games aren't won on paper, but we really should be winning and advancing here. Otherwise, it's a massive overachieving for the trinis and and makes us massive underachievers, just based on paper. 

[narduch]

2 CPL players

[king1010]

3 minutes ago, Obinna said:

No real surprises. I know games aren't won on paper, but we really should be winning and advancing here. Otherwise, it's a massive overachieving for the trinis and and makes us massive underachievers, just based on paper. 

No Ryan Telfer or Malcolm Shaw, both born in Canada. 

Edited March 14 by king1010

[Bigandy]

On paper, a young daniel phillips is arguably there best player with the garcia brothers in the mix as well. 

Kinda feels like if spoony, Cornelius and Zator being our best players. 

[yomurphy1]

Just now, Bigandy said:

On paper, a young daniel phillips is arguably there best player with the garcia brothers in the mix as well. 

Kinda feels like if spoony, Cornelius and Zator being our best players. 

Levi Garcia is a baller. 

[Bigandy]

2 minutes ago, king1010 said:

No Ryan Telfer or Malcolm Shaw, both born in Canada. 

or luke singh