CNL Play-In for Copa America: Canada vs Trinidad & Tobago - Saturday, March 23, 2024 - Frisco (greater Dallas), Texas

[DeRo_Is_King]

1 hour ago, narduch said:

We need guys like LDF and JKL to get way more professional minutes first.

That's way more Important than giving them senior CanMNT caps

Guess I feel differently to others on this board. When I see a promising player in a position we desperately need help in, I'm very open-minded about playing him in low-risk games. 

[narduch]

31 minutes ago, DeRo_Is_King said:

Guess I feel differently to others on this board. When I see a promising player in a position we desperately need help in, I'm very open-minded about playing him in low-risk games. 

Imagine Canada playing low risk games lol

[DeRo_Is_King]

16 minutes ago, narduch said:

Imagine Canada playing low risk games lol

Yeah. I get that. A friendly should be scheduled eventually. 

[dyslexic nam]

1 minute ago, DeRo_Is_King said:

Yeah. I get that. A friendly should be scheduled eventually. 

But even then, they are so few and far between that it would likely be a Copa preparation game or some other essential game.  Unfortunately probably the only way we could get those sorts of bonus friendlies is if we bomb agains T&T.   

[DeRo_Is_King]

13 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

But even then, they are so few and far between that it would likely be a Copa preparation game or some other essential game.  Unfortunately probably the only way we could get those sorts of bonus friendlies is if we bomb agains T&T.   

Also true, which is why it will likely never be an ideal time to transition away from older players. 

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

4 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

bonus friendlies is if we bomb agains T&T.   

4 hours ago, DeRo_Is_King said:

likely never be an ideal time to transition away from older players. 

My perspective is that there is time for this transition to take place in:

- a possible September friendly vs Mexico

- CNL quarter-finals in November

- A possible (if unlikely) Camp Poutine in 2025

- Gold Cup 2025

I disagree with @VinceA and feel that if Vitória, Borjan and Hoilett are fit and playing well, the T&T match is not the one in which to rock the boat.

 

Edited March 4 by Olympique_de_Marseille

[Kadenge]

Realistically, If our 1st XI cannot get a win vs T&T, do we really think that some of the over 30 yr old vets on the bench are going to come on and do the job given their current form?  I get that Vitoria, because there is no right footed CB that is clearly better at this point, needs to be there and even perhaps Borjan for his experience and leadership, but there are others that can be replaced with younger and more in form players. How many veteran subs have come on and made a difference since  2022 WCQ? CNL semis and finals 2023? friendly vs Japan? 2 games vs Jamaica? You can still keep the core of 15 outfield players (10 starters and 5 subs) + 2 keepers and bring in up to a max of 6 younger players to get some integration. Perhaps that 6 goes to 4 and that's ok. I don't think we have any choice given the lack of games. Biello stuck with the old guard and failed vs Jamaica. It has to happen now.

[DeRo_Is_King]

23 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

Realistically, If our 1st XI cannot get a win vs T&T, do we really think that some of the over 30 yr old vets on the bench are going to come on and do the job given their current form?  I get that Vitoria, because there is no right footed CB that is clearly better at this point, needs to be there and even perhaps Borjan for his experience and leadership, but there are others that can be replaced with younger and more in form players. How many veteran subs have come on and made a difference since  2022 WCQ? CNL semis and finals 2023? friendly vs Japan? 2 games vs Jamaica? You can still keep the core of 15 outfield players (10 starters and 5 subs) + 2 keepers and bring in up to a max of 6 younger players to get some integration. Perhaps that 6 goes to 4 and that's ok. I don't think we have any choice given the lack of games. Biello stuck with the old guard and failed vs Jamaica. It has to happen now.

Largely agree with this sentiment, but it comes down to details. Vitoria? Yes. Hoilett? Maybe, but there are many young in-form options. Borjan? I'm comfortable with Sirois or Crepeau at this point. 

But I agree we have older guys who can be transitioned out. We see how many quality young players are coming through. The WC is a young players' tournament. If we have a guy on the bench at Fulham who already sat on the bench for us, bring him into the squad again for T&T.

Honestly, I think we all know he'll be there. He may not play, but he'll be on the bench. 

[dyslexic nam]

29 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

Realistically, If our 1st XI cannot get a win vs T&T, do we really think that some of the over 30 yr old vets on the bench are going to come on and do the job given their current form?  I get that Vitoria, because there is no right footed CB that is clearly better at this point, needs to be there and even perhaps Borjan for his experience and leadership, but there are others that can be replaced with younger and more in form players. How many veteran subs have come on and made a difference since  2022 WCQ? CNL semis and finals 2023? friendly vs Japan? 2 games vs Jamaica? You can still keep the core of 15 outfield players (10 starters and 5 subs) + 2 keepers and bring in up to a max of 6 younger players to get some integration. Perhaps that 6 goes to 4 and that's ok. I don't think we have any choice given the lack of games. Biello stuck with the old guard and failed vs Jamaica. It has to happen now.

I at the end of the day, I think that probably reframes the issue a bit.  Hoilett may still have a moment of magic left in him, but is it likely to be any more impactful than the late-game contribution of a guy who just managed to scored in La Liga, or guys who have been playing consistently well in the Championship?  That is a tough call.  Because the question isn’t whether or not the old guard can still have an impact - it is whether or not they can have more of an impact than some really talented guys who are at various stages of transitioning from talented youth prospects to proven pros who are now competing and producing at higher levels.  

[Watchmen]

7 hours ago, Olympique_de_Marseille said:

My perspective is that there is time for this transition to take place in:

- a possible September friendly vs Mexico

- CNL quarter-finals in November

- A possible (if unlikely) Camp Poutine in 2025

- Gold Cup 2025

I disagree with @VinceA and feel that if Vitória, Borjan and Hoilett are fit and playing well, the T&T match is not the one in which to rock the boat.

 

I think the time to transition away is the Copa (if they make it). Maybe not all. But the idea should be to give some of the "backups" to chance to step forward in a bigger moment. Crepeau over Borjan, for instance. It's about prep for 2026 and friendlies don't do that. Rip the bandaid off this summer.

[Shway]

It's now not later for me. Or in with the new and out with the old. Whatever way you want to spin it, we need change to prepare for 2026... and Copa will be the only experience those players will get because friendlies against tier 1 opponents will be few and far between because of availability. 

So for me, I'm dropping Borjan, Vitoria, Hoilett, and Cavallini. The way we didn't see a send off tour for Atiba, these guys can respectively get a "thanks for your time" moment no grander than our most capped player.

With that in mind. Here's my 23 for the play-in.

Bair, Bombito, Buchanan, Choiniere, Corbeanu, Corneilius, Crepeau, David, Davies, Eustaqiuo, Fraser, Johnston, Kone, Larin, Laryea, McGraw, Millar, Miller, Osorio, Pos, St. Clair, Ugbo

Starting XI:

[Ivan]

I watched the Montreal/Dallas game yesterday (broke down and bought the MLS package again) and Fraser looked pretty good!  As did Choiniere.

[MtlMario]

I think for T&T we go with the old guard and then all bets are off and we bring in the younger players for Copa (whomever the coach is). We have a good group (except our opener) that we can take advantage of and play the young guys and let the chips fall where they may.

PS. If Mauro isn't the coach going forward I wouldn't mind him staying as assistant coach, do not know if he would stay or if new coach would want his own staff though.

[Bigandy]

On 3/1/2024 at 6:11 PM, Kadenge said:

Ali is injured and not sure he will be ready for the match.  If Biello feels Abzi has the potential to move up levels he may want to call him up now that he has agreed to be on the  57 man list. Just a hunch.

I think ali is ready to play whatever small minutes he would get if called up... he may not quite be in form but I think hes available for selection. I do agree that if we feel abzi can grow, that we call him up. I just always have been skeptical that abzi will reach that level. 

[Shway]

46 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

I think ali is ready to play whatever small minutes he would get if called up... he may not quite be in form but I think hes available for selection. I do agree that if we feel abzi can grow, that we call him up. I just always have been skeptical that abzi will reach that level. 

Wait...I didn't even realize Ahmed was back playing this weekend. However, I don't know who I would drop for him because he's more of an 8 than a 6. So right now, it would be between him and Choinierre. 

I think Fraser has done really well whenever he's been called upon with the CMNT. He's 26 yo, mature, and now getting minutes at the MLS level when he was being questioned as to why he was being called up to play Belgium D2. 

I also realized that outside of Fraser (and Piette), we don't have many number 6-style players. Kone, Staq, Ahmed, Choinierre, Osorio are all guys who like to get into the final 3rd. 

 

[Aird25]

57 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

I think ali is ready to play whatever small minutes he would get if called up... he may not quite be in form but I think hes available for selection. I do agree that if we feel abzi can grow, that we call him up. I just always have been skeptical that abzi will reach that level. 

Reach what level?

[Bigandy]

10 minutes ago, Aird25 said:

Reach what level?

I meant that he gets a unwarranted call up based on potential that hes going to reach the CMNT contributor level and since hes a dual, we call him up early. 

I understand theres a case that hes CMNT level now or close but hes not getting minutes and at 25 hes not a long term option over adekugbe, laryea, or davies. He could be a stop gap for a couple years but its likely that we will find a better candidate post laryea and adekugbe. 

[Bigandy]

16 minutes ago, Shway said:

Wait...I didn't even realize Ahmed was back playing this weekend. However, I don't know who I would drop for him because he's more of an 8 than a 6. So right now, it would be between him and Choinierre. 

I think Fraser has done really well whenever he's been called upon with the CMNT. He's 26 yo, mature, and now getting minutes at the MLS level when he was being questioned as to why he was being called up to play Belgium D2. 

I also realized that outside of Fraser (and Piette), we don't have many number 6-style players. Kone, Staq, Ahmed, Choinierre, Osorio are all guys who like to get into the final 3rd. 

 

he recovered quicker than i thought.

I would call up ali for this game at LB depth. Realistically if sam isnt fit, davies and laryea can more than cover the LB spot. Ali gives you options off the bench even if hes unlikely to play. 


I see us having 3 realistic options at 6. Piette, Fraser and bombito. I rank them in that order but can see why you could pick either of the 3 depending on what role you want from a 6 on the bench while you play a double 8 on the field. 

I've actually regularly maintained that our weakest position is CDM, not CB. 

[Kadenge]

18 minutes ago, Shway said:

 

I think Fraser has done really well whenever he's been called upon with the CMNT. He's 26 yo, mature, and now getting minutes at the MLS level when he was being questioned as to why he was being called up to play Belgium D2. 

I also realized that outside of Fraser (and Piette), we don't have many number 6-style players. Kone, Staq, Ahmed, Choinierre, Osorio are all guys who like to get into the final 3rd. 

 

Is Fraser really a #6 style player though? I agree he doesn't have the attacking flair to play higher but to me he is more of a deep lying playmaker that can make pinpoint long passes to the forwards. Can he break up plays, tackle 1v1 and protect the back 3/4? As you say we have lots of #8s and mids with attacking or skill on the ball so the obvious option to me would be to play Staq at the #6 and then one of Choiniere/Ahmed/Oso further up with Kone. I suspect the reason Staq has not played much with Porto recently is that with Taremi injured they are going with a more offensively gifted mid. Staq is actually a #6 who was moved further up by Porto.

[Obinna]

What does Theo Corbeanu need to do to get a call this window? Playing in La Liga and opened his goal scoring account against Villarreal.

Wild that he won't likely get in. When you have Davies, Buchanan ahead of you, with Millar having a strong season in the Championship, there really is only one more spot left, but that's going to be taken up by Laryea, who won't get dropped (and shouldn't get dropped).

I want to see us qualify here and then bring Corbeanu next window. If we have a few pre tournament friendlies, maybe he can come in for those and play his way into the tournament team?

[CanadaFan123]

13 minutes ago, Obinna said:

What does Theo Corbeanu need to do to get a call this window? Playing in La Liga and opened his goal scoring account against Villarreal.

Wild that he won't likely get in. When you have Davies, Buchanan ahead of you, with Millar having a strong season in the Championship, there really is only one more spot left, but that's going to be taken up by Laryea, who won't get dropped (and shouldn't get dropped).

I want to see us qualify here and then bring Corbeanu next window. If we have a few pre tournament friendlies, maybe he can come in for those and play his way into the tournament team?

I don’t think he’s competing with Laryea at all. He is in competition with Brym, Millar, Nelson, Hoilett for wing spots. I think Brym has a major advantage in that he can play CF as well. 
 

Imagine he wasn’t capped and still eligible for Romania? We would be sweating and would have no choice but to call him. 

[Bison44]

You can still go old guard but the youngsters that are playing well need to replace the older fringe guys now.  I know T+T game is vital, hasnt damn near every game we have played the last 2 years been as well?  You dont start Ugbo, but I think he is first off the bench if we are behind and Bair should be in the squad just so he is ready if needed this summer.  Cav can sit.  Same with Hoilett or Brym or whichever we usually call at wing, get Corbeanu back in even if its just to be in camp.  The guys that have good shots at pushing the team forward in 2026 need to get into camps now, not later.  

[SpursFlu]

Players I don't need to see

Cavallini, Brym, Osorio, Hoilett, Vitoria

Players I want to see

Bair, Colyn, Corbeanu, Nelson, LDF

[Shway]

24 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

You can still go old guard but the youngsters that are playing well need to replace the older fringe guys now.  I know T+T game is vital, hasnt damn near every game we have played the last 2 years been as well?  You dont start Ugbo, but I think he is first off the bench if we are behind and Bair should be in the squad just so he is ready if needed this summer.  Cav can sit.  Same with Hoilett or Brym or whichever we usually call at wing, get Corbeanu back in even if its just to be in camp.  The guys that have good shots at pushing the team forward in 2026 need to get into camps now, not later.  

Some of the fringe guys are the old guard. Cavallini, Hoilett...
You start off your point by keeping some but then end with focusing on 2026. The old guard won't be around for that, so your last part contradicts itself. 

[Shway]

3 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

Players I don't need to see

Cavallini, Brym, Osorio, Hoilett, Vitoria

Players I want to see

Bair, Colyn, Corbeanu, Nelson, LDF

I'm torn on Osorio because he's a player that we don't have unless we want to mold David into a 10. 
It's a bit contradictory for you to say no Brym but you want to Colyn when the latter plays in an inferior league. 
Nelson I want to see him as well...but as a winger there's a few options ahead of him in Davies, Buchanan, Corbeanu, Millar, Laryea. 
LDF....he's one for the future, I don't think he's ready yet because for starters he's barely playing U21 and he isn't playing at all for Fulham. I rather take a look at Pos who has experience rather than give a shot to a guy who hasn't played professional minutes.