CNL Play-In for Copa America: Canada vs Trinidad & Tobago - Saturday, March 23, 2024 - Frisco (greater Dallas), Texas

[CanadaFan123]

1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Chaves is a weak Portuguese team, I think TFC is better. In Portugal the better MLS teams would be battling for 4th place, 3rd on a good year.

I don’t think there’s ever been a team in MLS history good enough for 3rd in Portugal. Maybe that changes this year with Miami though. 

[CanadaFan123]

1 hour ago, narduch said:

Don't want to take this too far off a tangent, but I still contend that MLS will never truly meet its full potential of becoming the great league that people claim it wants to be until they cap the league at 20 teams.

That’s part of it but also they need to take off the training wheels and get serious with their rosters. It is way too rigid and convoluted. This isn’t the NHL, NBA etc. let’s get in line with the rest of the world.  
 

Manchester United has no problem benching big talents for youngsters but MLS sides even at a much lower level would never dare. Competition is secondary in the league and when that is the case it can never be a top 10 league and top talents will take their chances elsewhere. 

[dyslexic nam]

1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Chaves is a weak Portuguese team, I think TFC is better. In Portugal the better MLS teams would be battling for 4th place, 3rd on a good year.

I don't slag MLS and I think it continues to grow into the kind of quality league we all (well, minus Ansem) hope it can become.  And someday I think that will be possibly a top 5 or 6 global league as the salary floor continues to rise.  But it isn't there yet and I would debate the claim I quoted.  Top3 on a good day?  Right now the top 3 consists of Benfica, Sporting and Porto.  I can't think of a moment in time when I would give any MLS team a strong claim to being better than those three.  Maybe in a one-off match where anything can happen.  But better in a consistent basis?  Not for me.  Braga is 4th, and I admittedly haven't watched much of them, but they just underperformed in Europe so maybe a fourth place finish for MLS1 isn't an impossible scenario.  But that still (firmly IMO) puts the Portuguese topflight markedly ahead of MLS.   

[SpursFlu]

I think Argentina are comfortably better than MLS and LigaMX. Ecuador is also a very good league at the moment and I would also put Colombia in there with LigaMX 

Some leagues have more parity and some leagues are more top heavy. I think Celtic Rangers are better than any MLS team but then maybe every MLS team is better than the bottom half of the SPL. Same with a Paraguay and Uruguay. A couple teams that would beat any MLS team but then drops right off. 

Edited March 1 by SpursFlu

[Kingston]

1 hour ago, narduch said:

Don't want to take this too far off a tangent, but I still contend that MLS will never truly meet its full potential of becoming the great league that people claim it wants to be until they cap the league at 20 teams.

Why (honest question)?  I know ~20 is the traditional number for European top flight leagues but MLS has the same population base as all of western Europe.  Limiting MLS to 20 teams would be like Europe actually establishing the Super League.

[narduch]

5 minutes ago, Kingston said:

Why (honest question)?  I know ~20 is the traditional number for European top flight leagues but MLS has the same population base as all of western Europe.  Limiting MLS to 20 teams would be like Europe actually establishing the Super League.

Basically a 20 team league means the cream rises to the top.

It also removes the current complacency that exists in MLS where 18 of your 29 teams make the playoffs 

 

[SpursFlu]

Not to get too cocky but I find it interesting that people are very nervous about us playing a team that has a couple starters in the CPL and yet we don't have a single player in the argument to make our provisional roster from the CPL which obviously is our domestic league 

[Obinna]

7 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

Not to get too cocky but I find it interesting that people are very nervous about us playing a team that has a couple starters in the CPL and yet we don't have a single player in the argument to make our provisional roster from the CPL which obviously is our domestic league 

It's a single game and anything can happen, that's why. I feel confident, but they are still pro players who will be fighting for their country. And they have a pretty big threat in Garcia, the AEK Athens winger who seems to have gone beast mode this year. Last I checked he had 11 goals in 11 games in Greece. Not sure what he's at now. Regardless, he's a threat who can break a nil-nil game in their favour. If we score first I think we go through, but if they score first and shut down shop, I will be nervous as hell, personally. 

[SpursFlu]

21 minutes ago, Kingston said:

Why (honest question)?  I know ~20 is the traditional number for European top flight leagues but MLS has the same population base as all of western Europe.  Limiting MLS to 20 teams would be like Europe actually establishing the Super League.

I think it's more of a question of a closed league. Technically Champions League is already a European Super League. I think MLS could have 100 teams. Just not all in the same division 

[dyslexic nam]

11 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

Not to get too cocky but I find it interesting that people are very nervous about us playing a team that has a couple starters in the CPL and yet we don't have a single player in the argument to make our provisional roster from the CPL which obviously is our domestic league 

My main level of concern comes from the fact that none of the factors leading up to this game suggest a strong degree of preparation.  We have a better squad, top to bottom, no questions.  And all other things being equal, that should carry the day.  And maybe it will be another time where we (over)worry about a Suriname-esque  team pulling of a giant-slayer feat.  

But our preparation for these things has been historically poor, and recently dismal.  We are blessed with a (relative) golden generation and rather than leverage that opportunity into success, we mail it in from an organizational standpoint and coast on the ability of high calibre individuals to get us across the finish line.  Sometimes it works, but sometimes we fall short.  Hopefully the gulf in quality will be enough that our complete lack of preparation won't stop us from dispensing of what should be an inferior team.  

[SpursFlu]

15 minutes ago, Obinna said:

It's a single game and anything can happen, that's why. I feel confident, but they are still pro players who will be fighting for their country. And they have a pretty big threat in Garcia, the AEK Athens winger who seems to have gone beast mode this year. Last I checked he had 11 goals in 11 games in Greece. Not sure what he's at now. Regardless, he's a threat who can break a nil-nil game in their favour. If we score first I think we go through, but if they score first and shut down shop, I will be nervous as hell, personally. 

I know and I actually rate the CPL probably more than most. It's just something that jumps off the page that hasn't been mentioned 

Also trivia buffs. Honest question 

Is this game a WORLD FIRST???

Has there ever been a game in international football where a country has more players from the other countries domestic league then the actually country has?

Cue Jeopardy music

Edited March 1 by SpursFlu

[InglewoodJack]

2 hours ago, narduch said:

Don't want to take this too far off a tangent, but I still contend that MLS will never truly meet its full potential of becoming the great league that people claim it wants to be until they cap the league at 20 teams.

I think this eventually happens. Garber wants expansion to push the league up to 40+ franchises which is both way more than the north american leagues he's trying to emulate, and it's too much talent dilution for any sort of roster rules to prevent certain teams from becoming perennial losers, so somewhere down the line, you're going to have to cut the league in half and create two tiers. Eventually the cost of operating a franchise in a league where say, 5 or 6 teams have a roster that looks like Inter Miami's won't make sense for a team that draws 10k per match and hasn't been good in a decade.

The NBA is basically trying to recreate the FA cup, there have also been rumours that they're trying to figure out a pro/rel system- I think that barring the NFL which is its own thing, and MLB which is a dinosaur, the way of the future in North American sports is making our leagues more European.

[Obinna]

36 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

I don't slag MLS and I think it continues to grow into the kind of quality league we all (well, minus Ansem) hope it can become.  And someday I think that will be possibly a top 5 or 6 global league as the salary floor continues to rise.  But it isn't there yet and I would debate the claim I quoted.  Top3 on a good day?  Right now the top 3 consists of Benfica, Sporting and Porto.  I can't think of a moment in time when I would give any MLS team a strong claim to being better than those three.  Maybe in a one-off match where anything can happen.  But better in a consistent basis?  Not for me.  Braga is 4th, and I admittedly haven't watched much of them, but they just underperformed in Europe so maybe a fourth place finish for MLS1 isn't an impossible scenario.  But that still (firmly IMO) puts the Portuguese topflight markedly ahead of MLS.   

As you know, these comparisons are always hard to make. You can basically pick a team at random from MLS to be a representative example. In these other leagues there is a very big gulf between top and bottom. 

Perhaps we need to compare with Argentina and the Championship. Firstly, they are 28 and 24 teams respectively, compared to MLS's 29 teams.

Secondly, there isn't the same dominance on the top end. In Argentina for example, the biggest clubs drop out regularly now a days. Looking at the league results from the past 5 years for the Argentine Big Five....

River Plate:    ----- 1st-----3rd-----1st-----2nd-----4th

Boca Juniors: -----7th-----1st-----4th-----1st-----3rd

Independiete: ----24th----14th----9th----14th-----7th

San Lorenzo: -----3rd-----6th-----21st----8th-----23rd

Racing: ----------12th-----2nd----15th----4th-----1st

Even with the most consistent clubs, River Plate and Boca Junior, you see a 7th place finish there, couple of 4th places finishes. You just don't see that in Portugal or the Netherlands. 

You also don't see big historic clubs dropping down to 23rd or 24th. 

As for the Championship, well they have promotion so you don't really have a persistent upper class of teams. 

[Obinna]

25 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

I know and I actually rate the CPL probably more than most. It's just something that jumps off the page that hasn't been mentioned 

Also trivia buffs. Honest question 

Is this game a WORLD FIRST???

Has there ever been a game in international football where a country has more players from the other countries domestic league then the actually country has?

Cue Jeopardy music

I bet you see that in South America. I don't feel like diving into the rosters, but teams like Ecuador, Peru, Paraguay tend to have several players from the Brazilian or Argentine league, but when they play Brazil and Argentina there are probably less domestic players. 

[SpursFlu]

22 minutes ago, Obinna said:

As you know, these comparisons are always hard to make. You can basically pick a team at random from MLS to be a representative example. In these other leagues there is a very big gulf between top and bottom. 

Perhaps we need to compare with Argentina and the Championship. Firstly, they are 28 and 24 teams respectively, compared to MLS's 29 teams.

Secondly, there isn't the same dominance on the top end. In Argentina for example, the biggest clubs drop out regularly now a days. Looking at the league results from the past 5 years for the Argentine Big Five....

River Plate:    ----- 1st-----3rd-----1st-----2nd-----4th

Boca Juniors: -----7th-----1st-----4th-----1st-----3rd

Independiete: ----24th----14th----9th----14th-----7th

San Lorenzo: -----3rd-----6th-----21st----8th-----23rd

Racing: ----------12th-----2nd----15th----4th-----1st

Even with the most consistent clubs, River Plate and Boca Junior, you see a 7th place finish there, couple of 4th places finishes. You just don't see that in Portugal or the Netherlands. 

You also don't see big historic clubs dropping down to 23rd or 24th. 

As for the Championship, well they have promotion so you don't really have a persistent upper class of teams. 

I watch a lot of both Argentina and Brazil and they're both very competitive compared to most. Brazil has what they consider a big 12. I think Argentina have a similar number for what they consider their big clubs. Maybe a few less

I really enjoy watching the Argentine league because it has so many great teams with great supporters. The big difference is because they hosted the World Cup, Brazil have great new stadiums and have really excelerated in the past few years

Edited March 1 by SpursFlu

[Kingston]

1 hour ago, narduch said:

Basically a 20 team league means the cream rises to the top.

It also removes the current complacency that exists in MLS where 18 of your 29 teams make the playoffs 

 

The cream will rise to the top regardless of the size of the league.  I think they'd be farther ahead allowing the league to expand but reducing the number of playoff teams. 

(I suspect they'll eventually stop around 36 teams which would let the east and west be effectively independent.)

[Unnamed Trialist]

3 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

I don't slag MLS and I think it continues to grow into the kind of quality league we all (well, minus Ansem) hope it can become.  And someday I think that will be possibly a top 5 or 6 global league as the salary floor continues to rise.  But it isn't there yet and I would debate the claim I quoted.  Top3 on a good day?  Right now the top 3 consists of Benfica, Sporting and Porto.  I can't think of a moment in time when I would give any MLS team a strong claim to being better than those three.  Maybe in a one-off match where anything can happen.  But better in a consistent basis?  Not for me.  Braga is 4th, and I admittedly haven't watched much of them, but they just underperformed in Europe so maybe a fourth place finish for MLS1 isn't an impossible scenario.  But that still (firmly IMO) puts the Portuguese topflight markedly ahead of MLS.   

I said that because there have been years when Sporting have had poor seasons, they are more often outside of the top three than the other two.

For me Championship, Bundesliga 2 and second division Spain are a similar level to MLS. How many teams in MLS are League One or Bundesliga 3…well maybe a few. And how many could not get back to the 2nd tier? I don't think there are any. 

In fact this formula works better for Championship because it's chock full of mediocre filler teams, for me B2 is as good or better. It'd be more likely for an MLS team to drop out of B2 than Championship because it's more demanding.

I think we have to consider: no MLS team would be in a top 2nd tier, or any comparable league, with these sorts of imbalanced salaries with guys at 130k beside guys at 5 million. They'd actually pay for keepers and CBs. 

Edited March 1 by Unnamed Trialist

[Kadenge]

Apparently Sam Adekugbe will not be ready for the T&T game, so perhaps Abzi gets the call if they want another LB. Alternatively with Davies & Tajon on the squad, Sam's spot may go to a players at a different position.

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 minute ago, Kadenge said:

Apparently Sam Adekugbe will not be ready for the T&T game, so perhaps Abzi gets the call if they want another LB. Alternatively with Davies & Tajon on the squad, Sam's spot may go to a players at a different position.

I just don't see him getting any minutes, that's the problem. I'd put Kamal out there. Or Millar at left wingback. Abzi is only playing his trickle of minutes on the right anyways, better to have a guy in form and shift him in than using a guy who's not game sharp.

[Bigandy]

26 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I just don't see him getting any minutes, that's the problem. I'd put Kamal out there. Or Millar at left wingback. Abzi is only playing his trickle of minutes on the right anyways, better to have a guy in form and shift him in than using a guy who's not game sharp.

laryea is the obvious choice IMO if you want davies further forward. 

[Obinna]

32 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I just don't see him getting any minutes, that's the problem. I'd put Kamal out there. Or Millar at left wingback. Abzi is only playing his trickle of minutes on the right anyways, better to have a guy in form and shift him in than using a guy who's not game sharp.

I'm of two minds here...

On one hand, I agree with you that we need players who are match ready, otherwise why bother?

On the other hand, it's a pretty solid opportunity to integrate him. We are down a left back and even with him playing inverted recently (didn't know that), he's still a left sided player.

This could be a tight, hard fought game, where a player like Abzi wouldn't feature, or we could be up multiple goals by half time and cruising by 3 or 4 as the final whistle nears, which would be precisely the right scenario to bring him on for a handful of minutes.

No way to know how it'll turn out, but if we don't call him though we don't have the option....so as much as I agree I think I would call him, personally.

I love his ceiling and he's been brought on loan to Leganes for a reason. Certainly he hasn't played much, but this is a club headed for La Liga promotion. I know it's not exactly the same, but if we had a player on loan at Parma, St. Pauli, or dare I say Leicester City, wouldn't we not bring him in despite only playing like 3 games (or whatever it is)?

Edited March 1 by Obinna

[Bigandy]

6 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I'm of two minds here...

On one hand, I agree with you that we need players who are match ready, otherwise why bother?

On the other hand, it's a pretty solid opportunity to integrate him. We are down a left back and even with him playing inverted recently (didn't know that), he's still a left sided player.

This could be a tight, hard fought game, where a player like Abzi wouldn't feature, or we could be up multiple goals by half time and cruising by 3 or 4 as the final whistle nears, which would be precisely the right scenario to bring him on for a handful of minutes.

No way to know how it'll turn out, but if we don't call him though we don't have the option....so as much as I agree I think I would call him, personally. 

Interesting thought especially as a inverted player. Basically it's do we give the sams slot to a youngster. 

I would rather get ali in the squad for meaningful minutes but since abzi is a dual he may deserve the call. 

We have 10+ years with davies at lb and lw, sam with 5 yearsish left. prospects like petrasso and klukowskiy who are incredibly unknown so theres a case that abzi could be a good back up filler until we get some prospects at the level they need to be. 

Initially I disagreed with you but Im coming around to this idea. 

 

[FC_Hali]

4 hours ago, SpursFlu said:

Not to get too cocky but I find it interesting that people are very nervous about us playing a team that has a couple starters in the CPL and yet we don't have a single player in the argument to make our provisional roster from the CPL which obviously is our domestic league 

What a story that would be if Telfer or Shaw scored to knock Canada out of a spot at Copa America. 

[Aird25]

11 minutes ago, FC_Hali said:

What a story that would be if Telfer or Shaw scored to knock Canada out of a spot at Copa America. 

It'll probably be Reon Moore 

[CanadaFan123]

5 hours ago, SpursFlu said:

Not to get too cocky but I find it interesting that people are very nervous about us playing a team that has a couple starters in the CPL and yet we don't have a single player in the argument to make our provisional roster from the CPL which obviously is our domestic league 

Forget the rosters. The problem is this Trinidad team just beat the states in their last match, so they’re capable as a team.