CNL Play-In for Copa America: Canada vs Trinidad & Tobago - Saturday, March 23, 2024 - Frisco (greater Dallas), Texas

[archer21]

4 hours ago, nolando said:

So, I am struggling to remember the last time our full MNT played Trinidad. Was it this 2-0 victory?

https://canadasoccer.com/national/matches/national-team-match-past/?matchId=1097

Looks like it. We had 2 cancelled matches because of covid. We did beat them 2-0 in a closed door friendly pre 2019 Gold Cup as well though.

[Watchmen]

On 2/27/2024 at 8:51 AM, gkhs said:

I understand the tendency to not call CPL players. It is a deep and impressive squad, and, in most positions, there is not a CPL player I would advocate for over anyone who was named.

Personally, I prefer Daniel Nimick to several of the defenders who were named. More precisely, I think he is more likely to contribute at a high level in 2026 than several other players.

If I was a betting person, I would wager that he surpasses some of the MLS contingent before 2026.

It seems pretty clear that the CMNT sees a call up as a carrot to dangle to encourage players to move on from CPL; just not sure how I feel about that.

Two CPL sides just lost by a combined 11-3 over 2 legs, with the games not being that close. Players should absolutely be moving on from the league to a higher one as soon as a reasonable option presents itself.

If the CSA wants to call in a CPL player or two for meaningless friendly, that's fine. But I don't think there's any players there that are ready for meaningful national team games.

[CanadaFan123]

13 hours ago, archer21 said:

Looks like it. We had 2 cancelled matches because of covid. We did beat them 2-0 in a closed door friendly pre 2019 Gold Cup as well though.

Wasn’t even an official friendly. Last one was 2012 as mentioned but that was mostly domestic squads IIRC. I have followed this team for 20 years and haven’t seen them play Trinidad in an official match, which is crazy considering we’ve played every team under the sun seemingly. Meanwhile we’ve played Honduras in at least 14 official matches in that time (off the top of my head). We’ve played Dominica 3 times FFS lol.

Edited February 29 by CanadaFan123

[Kent]

The Canada Soccer site section where you can see past results seems to be broken (or the link changed and I can't find it anymore) so I'm using this other site that I've never seen before. Not sure if it's reliable or not.

https://www.11v11.com/teams/canada/tab/stats/

It's saying we have played T&T seven times in friendlies (never lost) once in the Gold Cup (I knew about that game, 2000 Gold Cup semi finals, obviously we won that), and 2 times in World Cup qualifying (lost both by a combined 6-0!) Does anybody know when those WCQ matches would have been?

[ray]

30 minutes ago, Kent said:

It's saying we have played T&T seven times in friendlies (never lost) once in the Gold Cup (I knew about that game, 2000 Gold Cup semi finals, obviously we won that), and 2 times in World Cup qualifying (lost both by a combined 6-0!) Does anybody know when those WCQ matches would have been?

2002 WQC taking place in summer of 2000 (after we had beaten them in Gold Cup semi). Dwight Yorke was in their side.

[jordan]

8 minutes ago, ray said:

2002 WQC taking place in summer of 2000 (after we had beaten them in Gold Cup semi). Dwight Yorke was in their side.

I seem to recall him collecting the ball near the half line and basically casually going through the D and scoring. 

[Alex]

We brought in a steel drum band before the game at commonwealth 🙄 

[CanadaFan123]

6 hours ago, Kent said:

The Canada Soccer site section where you can see past results seems to be broken (or the link changed and I can't find it anymore) so I'm using this other site that I've never seen before. Not sure if it's reliable or not.

https://www.11v11.com/teams/canada/tab/stats/

It's saying we have played T&T seven times in friendlies (never lost) once in the Gold Cup (I knew about that game, 2000 Gold Cup semi finals, obviously we won that), and 2 times in World Cup qualifying (lost both by a combined 6-0!) Does anybody know when those WCQ matches would have been?

So we have played T&T in just 3 official matches. Wild.

I guess the fixed gold cup draws for 20 years didn’t help that. 

[sose]

9 hours ago, Kent said:

The Canada Soccer site section where you can see past results seems to be broken (or the link changed and I can't find it anymore) so I'm using this other site that I've never seen before. Not sure if it's reliable or not.

https://www.11v11.com/teams/canada/tab/stats/

It's saying we have played T&T seven times in friendlies (never lost) once in the Gold Cup (I knew about that game, 2000 Gold Cup semi finals, obviously we won that), and 2 times in World Cup qualifying (lost both by a combined 6-0!) Does anybody know when those WCQ matches would have been?

I was at the 4-0 game, was played at the Oval in Sept 2000

[narduch]

T&T is playing 2 closed door friendlies v Jamaica. 

The first is today. 

The second on Match 3

[scullion44]

7 minutes ago, narduch said:

T&T is playing 2 closed door friendlies v Jamaica. 

The first is today. 

The second on Match 3

So I'm guessing it wont be shown anywhere? Too bad we probably could have gained some valuable info from these matches.

[Shway]

19 minutes ago, scullion44 said:

So I'm guessing it wont be shown anywhere? Too bad we probably could have gained some valuable info from these matches.

We would've gained nothing. 

I would be surprised if 3 guys from both rosters are included in March's games.
Those friendlies are nothing but stat boosters and domestic pleasers for their players. Ive done some work for a Jamaican international with 7 caps, ...and he's a Jamaican international because of these out-of-window games. 

I respect that the little country is able to do that, as I would love for us to have a C camp with CPL players.....but yea these games don't mean shit to us.

[dyslexic nam]

2 hours ago, Shway said:

We would've gained nothing. 

I would be surprised if 3 guys from both rosters are included in March's games.
Those friendlies are nothing but stat boosters and domestic pleasers for their players. Ive done some work for a Jamaican international with 7 caps, ...and he's a Jamaican international because of these out-of-window games. 

I respect that the little country is able to do that, as I would love for us to have a C camp with CPL players.....but yea these games don't mean shit to us.

Good to know. 

 

But man I wish we could offer some of these opportunities for fringe and B/C guys.  Seems like a great way to deepen the pool, strengthen ties to the program, and generally give guys a look outside of their club context. 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

On 2/27/2024 at 1:31 AM, Obinna said:

...Far from a top 10 league, to be sure, but definitely an improving league,...

How many leagues in Europe do you think are stronger than MLS? If you check out the UEFA coefficient rankings at the moment, this is what you see after the big 5:

https://kassiesa.net/uefa/data/method5/crank2023.html

6		Netherlands	8.600	9.400	9.200	19.200	13.500	59.900	5
7		Portugal	10.900	10.300	9.600	12.916	12.500	56.216	6
8		Belgium	7.800	7.600	6.000	6.600	14.200	42.200	5
9		Scotland	6.750	9.750	8.500	7.900	3.500	36.400	5
10		Austria	6.200	5.800	6.700	10.400	4.900	34.000	5

Edited March 1 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[Obinna]

59 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

How many leagues in Europe do you think are stronger than MLS? If you check out the UEFA coefficient rankings at the moment, this is what you see after the big 5:

https://kassiesa.net/uefa/data/method5/crank2023.html

6		Netherlands	8.600	9.400	9.200	19.200	13.500	59.900	5
7		Portugal	10.900	10.300	9.600	12.916	12.500	56.216	6
8		Belgium	7.800	7.600	6.000	6.600	14.200	42.200	5
9		Scotland	6.750	9.750	8.500	7.900	3.500	36.400	5
10		Austria	6.200	5.800	6.700	10.400	4.900	34.000	5

Well Netherlands and Portugal would be above imo. Belgium and Turkey I would say the same, but less clear. Russia traditional would be, but the ban has muddied things. The Championship I think is slightly above. All of these mentioned leagues aren't super ahead, but I still put MLS behind them all, along with Liga MX, Brazilian Serie A and the Argentine league.

So if we are saying MLS is above all the African leagues and Asian leagues, I think it puts MLS around 15, with some room for argument they could be higher.

Still probably outside the top 10, but maybe me saying they are "far" from being a top 10 league was an exaggeration. More accurate to say they getting closer to being a top 10 league, I suppose?

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Sounds about right. Thing with a country like Portugal though is that there are three big clubs (Porto, Benfica, Sporting), two middling sized ones (Braga and Guimaraes) and thirteen others as filler content that draw about as well as the Valour do when playing each other. MLS clubs might not be on par with Benfica and Porto but the league overall may already be stronger in depth of quality.

Doubt it's too far off being 10th globally now in other words. Outside Europe, I suspect only Mexico and Brazil definitely have stronger top tiers and the gap is slowly closing where Mexico is concerned. Nothing wrong with 26 (?) out of 57 players on the provisional list being from MLS in other words even if it messes up certain posters' preferred narratives. It's a reasonably high level of competition in global terms.

[narduch]

 

 

[JamboAl]

21 minutes ago, narduch said:

 

 

Or come down to Dallas to watch the game in person (if you don’t want to hear Gareth Wheeler…ha ha).  The Voyageurs section is now 85% sold out and the rest of the stadium only has reseller tickets left. 

[Bigandy]

1 hour ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Sounds about right. Thing with a country like Portugal though is that there are three big clubs (Porto, Benfica, Sporting), two middling sized ones (Braga and Guimaraes) and thirteen others as filler content that draw about as well as the Valour do when playing each other. MLS clubs might not be on par with Benfica and Porto but the league overall may already be stronger in depth of quality.

Doubt it's too far off being 10th globally now in other words. Outside Europe, I suspect only Mexico and Brazil definitely have stronger top tiers and the gap is slowly closing where Mexico is concerned. Nothing wrong with 26 (?) out of 57 players on the provisional list being from MLS in other words even if it messes up certain posters' preferred narratives. It's a reasonably high level of competition in global terms.

Chaves vs TFC .... Would be very interesting who wins. 

My europe bias says chaves does based on nothing really. Anyone else have a more educated opinion?

[costarg]

1 hour ago, Obinna said:

Well Netherlands and Portugal would be above imo. Belgium and Turkey I would say the same, but less clear. Russia traditional would be, but the ban has muddied things. The Championship I think is slightly above. All of these mentioned leagues aren't super ahead, but I still put MLS behind them all, along with Liga MX, Brazilian Serie A and the Argentine league.

So if we are saying MLS is above all the African leagues and Asian leagues, I think it puts MLS around 15, with some room for argument they could be higher.

Still probably outside the top 10, but maybe me saying they are "far" from being a top 10 league was an exaggeration. More accurate to say they getting closer to being a top 10 league, I suppose?

This sums it up very accurately.

[CanadaFan123]

9 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

Chaves vs TFC .... Would be very interesting who wins. 

My europe bias says chaves does based on nothing really. Anyone else have a more educated opinion?

The problem is that no one wants to take the tactical approach/structure of these teams into account in making these comparisons. I feel like Chaves would win as well but this is based off 2023 TFC, which was a tactical dumpster fire. This year it’s too early to say. Obviously TFC has the better squad. 
 

Where does MLS rank globally? Probably comfortably outside the top 10. TFCs last 2 signings have been CPL level so, like Saudi Arabia, there is a huge gap. 

What is MLS’s argument for being top 10? They have won 1 champions league in the last 20 years. How can a league that can’t even conquer CONCACAF make a claim to anything? If it’s down to “names”, well a lot of countries have big names.

Leagues comfortably better than MLS: England x2, Italy, Spain, Germany, France, Netherlands, Turkey, Mexico, Brazil, Belgium, Portugal.

Then what about Japan and Saudi Arabia? Both leagues have strong domestic bases and huge stars. Heck even other Asian countries do I.e. Qatar, UAE 
 

MLS sides seem to get trounced regularly anytime they play internationally and until that stops it’s going to be easy to write the league off.

[Unnamed Trialist]

51 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

Or come down to Dallas to watch the game in person (if you don’t want to hear Gareth Wheeler…ha ha).  The Voyageurs section is now 85% sold out and the rest of the stadium only has reseller tickets left. 

Could you tell us how many strong the Vs allotment is?

[narduch]

1 minute ago, CanadaFan123 said:

The problem is that no one wants to take the tactical approach/structure of these teams into account in making these comparisons. I feel like Chaves would win as well but this is based off 2023 TFC, which was a tactical dumpster fire. This year it’s too early to say. Obviously TFC has the better squad. 
 

Where does MLS rank globally? Probably comfortably outside the top 10. TFCs last 2 signings have been CPL level so, like Saudi Arabia, there is a huge gap. 

What is MLS’s argument for being top 10? They have won 1 champions league in the last 20 years. How can a league that can’t even conquer CONCACAF make a claim to anything? If it’s down to “names”, well a lot of countries have big names.

Leagues comfortably better than MLS: England x2, Italy, Spain, Germany, France, Netherlands, Turkey, Mexico, Brazil, Belgium, Portugal.

Then what about Japan and Saudi Arabia? Both leagues have strong domestic bases and huge stars. Heck even other Asian countries do I.e. Qatar, UAE 
 

MLS sides seem to get trounced regularly anytime they play internationally and until that stops it’s going to be easy to write the league off.

Don't want to take this too far off a tangent, but I still contend that MLS will never truly meet its full potential of becoming the great league that people claim it wants to be until they cap the league at 20 teams.

[Unnamed Trialist]

20 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

Chaves vs TFC .... Would be very interesting who wins. 

My europe bias says chaves does based on nothing really. Anyone else have a more educated opinion?

Chaves is a weak Portuguese team, I think TFC is better. In Portugal the better MLS teams would be battling for 4th place, 3rd on a good year.

[JamboAl]

19 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Could you tell us how many strong the Vs allotment is?

We were allocated a little over 100 tickets.