CNL: Canada vs Jamaica - Tuesday, November 21st - 7:30pm EST / 4:30pm Pacific - Toronto

[Shway]

The fortress has crumbled. History was broken twice in 4 days.

[Watchmen]

Just now, Shway said:

Trinidad is no Jamaica.........but I would prefer Costa Rica or Honduras. It's the underdog that makes me nervous, and the way Trinidad play doesn't help our style.

Costa Rica face-planted even harder than we did in this round, but I'd be more concerned about them getting their shit together by March and I think they'd be a tougher opponent.  I'll take T&T, but the guys have to get their heads on straight before hand and Biello (assuming he's still in charge) has to figure out a better strategy.

[dyslexic nam]

7 minutes ago, Shway said:

Trinidad is no Jamaica.........but I would prefer Costa Rica or Honduras. It's the underdog that makes me nervous, and the way Trinidad play doesn't help our style.

I don’t know man - if we can’t beat Trinidad, we have no business whatsoever at the Copa.  I want to make the tournament but I don’t want to be so thoroughly outclassed it is embarrassing.  And to compete we need to be able to walk through teams like Trini.  

[Obinna]

T&T is the easier of the two on paper, but seeing how they gave the USA trouble and how we clearly cannot break down a bunker makes me concerned.

Won't share all my thoughts but here is what I will say. Now is the time to freshen up this squad. Biello went for a veteran heavy team and I get it, but it didn't pay off. The logic was to rely on the familiar faces to compensate for the lack of prep, but those familiar faces were listless. Kaye, Osorio and even Hoilett haven't looked more past-it than tonight. These were the guys who you'd think would help manage the game and see out the result, but instead they were the ones on the field when we were chasing a goal and none of them had any ideas. That's on Biello and I gave him a pass for the squad selection, but the in-game management was a disaster of his own making.

Here's the good news. Biello won't be the next coach after this result, or at least he shouldn't. Just as importantly, this should spell the end for several long time members of this team. Not saying they should be banished, but now more than ever there is good reason to flip the script.

Kaye for sure must be dropped and frankly I think it's time for Oso to be dropped too. Vitoria I think we need to move on from as well, not because he has been THAT bad, but we need to live and die with someone else back there. It's time. Hoilett depending on form I think can still play a role, but tonight was the first time I questioned whether he is past it too. For now I will just say he's more on my watch list. And I didn't think I would be saying this, but Borjan I don't think hurts us by continuing to play him in March, but I wouldn't complain if we moved on from him too. Maybe it would be good to drop him as well just to clear out the deadwood.

March vs T&T

GK: Crepeau, St. Clair, Sirois

D: Johnston, Laryea, LDF, Miller, Cornelius, McGraw, Adekugbe

M: Eustaquio, Kone, Ahmed, Choniere, Paton, Loturi, Saliba

F: Buchanan, Davies, David, Larin, Millar, Nelson

Give me that in March, or something close to it. Live and die by the youth at this point. If they fail they learn. And if we fail against T&T then honestly, it is what it is and we don't deserve it, but at least nobody can say the old players cost us.

[GasPed]

2 hours ago, Hawkguy said:

Players cough up the ball all the time. If you're expecting them to be perfect with such poor movement, then I'm not sure what to tell you. 

 

? I don't expect them to be perfect of course.  But if you're expecting me (and the rest of us) to ignore two egregious giveaways leading directly to two goals... ...I'm not sure what to tell you.  All I can say is we all saw it; let's call a spade a spade.

[blueseeka]

2 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Kaye for sure must be dropped and frankly I think it's time for Oso to be dropped too. Vitoria I think we need to move on from as well, not because he has been THAT bad, but we need to live and die with someone else back there. It's time. Hoilett depending on form I think can still play a role, but tonight was the first time I questioned whether he is past it too. For now I will just say he's more on my watch list. And I didn't think I would be saying this, but Borjan I don't think hurts us by continuing to play him in March, but I wouldn't complain if we moved on from him too. Maybe it would be good to drop him as well just to clear out the deadwood.

March vs T&T

GK: Crepeau, St. Clair, Sirois

😧 Johnston, Laryea, LDF, Miller, Cornelius, McGraw, Adekugbe

M: Eustaquio, Kone, Ahmed, Choniere, Paton, Loturi, Saliba

F: Buchanan, Davies, David, Larin, Millar, Nelson

I honestly was surprised at how steady Kaye was. I definitely would of taken Ahmed over him but he wasn't an issue in these two games.

I want to move on from Vitoria but there honestly isnt anyone better. I was on Cornelius side in the Voyageurs section and it looked obvious that Jamaica was attacking on his side. He struggled stopping crosses. I thought McGraw would of gotten another shot but he hasn't. Heibert, Zator, Kennedy and McNaughton are long forgotten. Just pray LDF doesnt move on after Biello skipped inserting him in two separate camps

Osorio is done but he will keep getting invited

I just want to see Crepeau or St.Clair. It won't happen as long as Borjan geta invited to camp. He needed to save at least one of those chances today. Blake was great for Jamaica.

[BearcatSA]

20 minutes ago, Shway said:

The fortress has crumbled. History was broken twice in 4 days.

"The brotherhood is back.  The players will tell you that it never left." -  part of Wheels' pregame pap which made me turn the sound off on the pbp for the remainder of the match.

[Obinna]

1 minute ago, blueseeka said:

I honestly was surprised at how steady Kaye was. I definitely would of taken Ahmed over him but he wasn't an issue in these two games.

I want to move on from Vitoria but there honestly isnt anyone better. I was on Cornelius side in the Voyageurs section and it looked obvious that Jamaica was attacking on his side. He struggled stopping crosses. I thought McGraw would of gotten another shot but he hasn't. Heibert, Zator, Kennedy and McNaughton are long forgotten. Just pray LDF doesnt move on after Biello skipped inserting him in two separate camps

Osorio is done but he will keep getting invited

I just want to see Crepeau or St.Clair. It won't happen as long as Borjan geta invited to camp. He needed to save at least one of those chances today. Blake was great for Jamaica.

Fair enough on Kaye but at this point we may as well give those minutes to someone else. Unless he blows the doors off at New England I don't see much use of bringing him in March. 

[Joe Keeper]

If its true ill take Trinidad but who knows what form they will be in come march. There is no positive on this loss tonight. There are many problems right now but I wonder if we have gotten a bit too comfortable playing at home...

 We played a more honest game away. Tonight felt like we were playing more to our own hype and that entertaining the crowd and buying the media and CSA narrative about being the Kings of Concacaf was more important than finishing the job. 

Looking at football as a whole, in two legged ties, coming home with a 2-1 aggregate lead is is not that secure. 3-1 isnt really either. 

To hell with playing for idiot marketers and influencers, this is a sport first. 

Whatever the truth, I think tonights disaster brings the octagonal era to a close. On and off the field we are burning our progress and credability fast at the wrong time.

 

[TOcanadafan]

3 minutes ago, BearcatSA said:

"The brotherhood is back.  The players will tell you that it never left." -  part of Wheels' pregame pap which made me turn the sound off on the pbp for the remainder of the match.

When the match started to tilt the body language turned in an instant… so much negativity between players.  We need a new coach, a bit of a squad refresh / reorganization (our overall team commitment to D has deteriorated since WCQuals came to a close)… a big reset.

i’m really upset with the loss tonight, but if we had won, I don;t think some important issues would have been addressed, so it could be a blessing in the long run.

[BearcatSA]

2 minutes ago, Joe Keeper said:

If its true ill take Trinidad but who knows what form they will be in come march. There is no positive on this loss tonight. There are many problems right now but I wonder if we have gotten a bit too comfortable playing at home...

We played a more honest game away. Tonight felt like we were playing more to our own hype and that entertaining the crowd and buying the media and CSA narrative about being the Kings of Concacaf was more important than finishing the job. 

The second half featured a lot of hubris in the play from too many guys.  I am still stunned by how we got caught out on that badly on the second goal (forget about the tug/non call).  It was collective hero ball on that one. 

[Obinna]

5 minutes ago, TOcanadafan said:

When the match started to tilt the body language turned in an instant… so much negativity between players.  We need a new coach, a bit of a squad refresh / reorganization (our overall team commitment to D has deteriorated since WCQuals came to a close)… a big reset.

i’m really upset with the loss tonight, but if we had won, I don;t think some important issues would have been addressed, so it could be a blessing in the long run.

This is where I am at too. Call it a coping mechanism and it hurts not getting to compete in the NL finals, but in the long run it should mean Biello is out and we get a true reset.

[Bertuzzi44]

Canada too cocky, not professional enough, and now underperforming considering the talent on the team.

We neeeeeeeeeed a new manager. Someone who knows how to win, and can instill some discipline and corral some of the immaturity in the side.

Herdman built up their ego, and that was correct at the time. Now they seem to be resting on their laurels. The next step is consistency and professionalism. 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

1 hour ago, cornerkick said:

..Disagree on the lowest moment...that Honduras 8-1 drubbing was far more painful.  We still have another shot at getting into Copa America...

Think losing to Guatemala over two legs on away goals during the qualifiers for Italia 90 also has to be up there because any lingering momentum in interest terms from Mexico 86 qualification was pretty much killed off at that point and the CMNT basically dropped off the radar screen almost completely until the next qualification cycle four years later. 

[Obinna]

Immature is right. And not in the way the USA are with Dest kicking the ball away and blowing kisses at the ref over nothing. We as a group are immature when it comes to killing off a match. Like Jordan Wilson said postgame, all we had to do is manage the situation, but once we allowed the first goal suddenly all that swagger faded away and we started to get anxious. It's mental fragility and the boys will have to do some soul searching to understand why they couldn't just see the result out. 

I know Honduras didn't win but the way they managed the situation down at the Azteca was fantastic. We meanwhile were playing at 100 miles an hour when all we had to do in the second half was keep the ball and keep our nerve.

[BearcatSA]

I am getting bad memories of our failed qualification for the 1990 World Cup when we lost the tie to Guatemala in 1988.

Edit:  sorry, OzzieBlizzard, missed your post on the same thing.

Edited November 22, 2023 by BearcatSA

[Watchmen]

Just now, BearcatSA said:

I am getting bad memories of our failed qualification for the 1990 World Cup when we lost the tie to Guatemala in 1988.

Edit:  sorry, OzzieBlizzard, missed your post on the same thing.

I was thinking it felt a lot like post-2000 - the joy of doing something momentous, the optimism that there was something to build on heading towards the next major tournament, and the dawning horror that a bunch of it was superficial and the core is still rotten.

[Hawkguy]

2 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

Pretty gutting result.   Drowning my sorrows in corner store sushi and cold samosas.   I fully expect to have the shits tomorrow. 

Man that one hurts.   Haven’t seem the replays but we were floored at the PK call as it looked completely innocuous from the supporter’s section.  And the goal

on rhe counter definitely looked like a foul in the buildup.  It was pretty depressing to hear the crowd erupt when Jamaica scored.   Every time.  Fuck. 

Glad I went to Ripley’s Aquarium today - it provides some consolation in an otherwise shitty day.  Got to pet a manta ray.  Yay?   Feel bad for my wife - she was pumped to see the boys and I wanted her to have a fun win - or at least a draw that would have been the overall positive result we needed.  At least she also petted the manta ray.  

This one definitely feels like “the good old days”.  Winning down there and then blowing a lead through a combo on individual errors and wasteful efforts to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.  Vintage Canada and deja vu all over again.  Probably shouldn’t have rewatched Groundhog Day last night.  

Fack…..

Man I sat in 108, and there were tons of people cheering both teams goals. It was such weird atmosphere. And when I say cheering both teams goals.. I don't mean some cheering for Canada and some for Jamaica. I literally mean people cheering for every goal scored, no matter the team. 

 

Kone was definitely fouled, but he was given the ball in a bad position too. 

I have no idea how VAR can look at something for 2 1/2 minutes and then not have the ref look at it. I actually thought the ref was solid enough. If he saw that again, he'd have taken it back. 

But we shouldn't have needed those to win. I've never seen a team come out from a positive first half, with the lead, and completely shift their efforts. Zero press, zero emotion, zero anything until Borjan took his dive. And even that only lit a fire under a couple of them. It was like Biello put on some strange version of The Big Green at halftime where they lose and they all had to makeout with the painted goat. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 22, 2023 by Hawkguy

[anthony7]

4 hours ago, jonovision said:

Jamaica were trash for all but 10 minutes over two legs and won. It happens.

Proceed with your bedwetting, friends.

Holy, I don’t think you actually watched both legs?

Edited November 22, 2023 by anthony7

[anthony7]

1 hour ago, Joe Keeper said:

If its true ill take Trinidad but who knows what form they will be in come march. There is no positive on this loss tonight. There are many problems right now but I wonder if we have gotten a bit too comfortable playing at home...

 We played a more honest game away. Tonight felt like we were playing more to our own hype and that entertaining the crowd and buying the media and CSA narrative about being the Kings of Concacaf was more important than finishing the job. 

Looking at football as a whole, in two legged ties, coming home with a 2-1 aggregate lead is is not that secure. 3-1 isnt really either. 

To hell with playing for idiot marketers and influencers, this is a sport first. 

Whatever the truth, I think tonights disaster brings the octagonal era to a close. On and off the field we are burning our progress and credability fast at the wrong time.

 

Are you serious right now? We had an actual chance to close out the tie in the 1st leg but thanks to bad decision making from Oso it cost us tonight. At the end of the day, Jamaica deserved to win both legs. People need to stop making excuses for these ‘brotherhood guy's’ who don’t truly earn these call ups.

Edited November 22, 2023 by anthony7

[gator]

58 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Think losing to Guatemala over two legs on away goals during the qualifiers for Italia 90 also has to be up there because any lingering momentum in interest terms from Mexico 86 qualification was pretty much killed off at that point and the CMNT basically dropped off the radar screen almost completely until the next qualification cycle four years later. 

We were Concacafed on the penalty call in the away leg and John Fitzgerald should have came in way sooner in the 2nd leg, he turned the match around but it was too little, too late!

[scullion44]

Maybe I'm being harsh but really disappointed with Buchanan these matches. He's normally good for a few moments of brilliance and breaking a defense down but I didn't see much of that.

[gator]

2 minutes ago, scullion44 said:

Maybe I'm being harsh but really disappointed with Buchanan these matches. He's normally good for a few moments of brilliance and breaking a defense down but I didn't see much of that.

Agree but over the 2 matches I can't think of one of our players that was good for both!

[Joe Keeper]

Double post removed

 

Edited November 22, 2023 by Joe Keeper

[Joe Keeper]

38 minutes ago, anthony7 said:

Are you for serious right now? We had an actual chance to close out the tie in the 1st leg but thanks to bad decision making from Oso it cost us tonight. At the end of the day, Jamaica deserved to win both legs. People need to stop making excuses for these ‘brotherhood guy's’ who don’t truly earn these call ups.

Did you read any of my other posts about other problems? How in my criticism of the team that we seem to be playing overconfident at home am I making excuses for 'the brotherhood' guys?

Losing this two legged tie was down to so many factors I havent seen one post on here capable of properly analyzing everything. 

I mentioned the mentality of overconfidence in the post you quote as one possibility and I stand by that concern. We have come to expect home wins and it was one factor in this loss tonight. We thought the the job was done. If anything my post is critical of the media, team and CSA overhyping our past accomplishments.  I dont enable any players...

Football moves on fast. We have been regressing a long time now. 

One Osorio give away did not cost us the entire match. We habitually give the ball away and have since the WC games. Its a habbit that we cant correct. That is one of many technical and tactical errors. 

Nor do I agree Jamaica outplayed us over both legs. We should have put this team away over two legs. We have far more problems than squad selection. We dont actually have a as much depth as some think we do.

Even if we would have advanced, these problems would be there going forward as they have been before tonight. 

Edited November 22, 2023 by Joe Keeper