Toronto FC - 2024 Season Thread

[anthony7]

33 minutes ago, Kingston said:

Okay, I will engage with this one time.

Osorio's role is to influence the game in the centre of the park.  He is the guy who helps break up the opponent's attack while it is still near mid field.  He then helps lead the transition into his team's attack to get the ball in to the other team's end under control.

If you watch him in a game, you will see that his positioning is excellent.  He reads the developing play and gets where he needs to be a couple of moves before the ball does.  Once he has the ball, he is incredibly calm and very rarely loses possession.  (He's currently top of TFC for pass percentage at 92%.)  He's also a dedicated, soft spoken, lead-by-example mentor for younger players; there's a reason he's the only over 30 national team player that kept his spot post-WC 2022 and there's a reason he's TFC's captain.

If you're judging him as "absent" because you don't see him making dramatic goal line clearances or scoring lots of goals, you're missing the point.  His impact is in the number of chances the other team didn't get and the extra attacking forays his team did get.  By definition when he does his job right he mostly isn't going to draw attention.  I suppose I can see how you might miss his value because it takes a deeper understanding of the game than highlight reel watching and box score counting to appreciate.  Those who do understand, however, - which includes Marsch, Herdman, and fans of both the NT and TFC - appreciate what he does.

Right, so what specific game can you use as an example which demonstrates some of what you were saying in the 2nd paragraph? Cause honestly, for the first part, you’re describing Deybi Flores at the beginning of the season.

His passing stats are not progressive and are more like Declan Rice for England right now. Negative.

 

Edited July 9 by anthony7

[costarg]

5 hours ago, Corazon said:

I think you've made some errors in your math , so I've made a couple changes.

Based on current standings - Toronto FC is currently 19th across both Conferences

With Osorio - 6 Win 3 Draw 5 Loss

Win - 23rd, 12th, 20th, 23rd, 17th, 21st = average of 19 (You seem to have added a win against 22nd place Montreal).

Draw - 1st, 26th, 28th = average of 18

Loss - 27th, 11th, 12th, 9th, 1st = average of 12

Without Osorio - 1 Win 8 Losses

Win - 22nd = average of 22

Loss - 9th, 18th, 25th, 18th, 8th, 20th, 17th, 6th = average of 15

Aside from their loss to Kansas City (27th), the 4 other losses with Osorio have been against top teams in the league.  Without Osorio, they've also lost to 3 top teams in the league, but they've also been losing to a bunch of mediocre teams that really don't look much different than the teams they were winning against when Osorio was in the lineup.  

I'm not saying, Osorio is going to come back and be TFC's savior once he's back, because they need a lot more than him.  However, it looks like statistics have been manipulated to make his impact look less significant.  A lot of the teams that they're currently losing to without him in the lineup, are teams at the same level that they were beating/drawing with him in the lineup.

Let me see if I understand.

The average team ranking in wins with Osorio is 19 while without its 22.

And the average team ranking in losses with Osorio is 12 vs 15 without.

Looking at the standings, I see a 1 point difference in 19th place vs 22nd and 2 points difference in 12th vs 15th.  Is that even a negligible difference?  I mean Osorio is an obvious starter for TFC, so we could say his absence could and should make a difference.  Either way, I'm sure he and Laryea will bring a positive boost, especially with the recent accomplishments and highs.  Fingers crossed!

[Kingston]

22 minutes ago, costarg said:

Let me see if I understand.

The average team ranking in wins with Osorio is 19 while without its 22.

And the average team ranking in losses with Osorio is 12 vs 15 without.

Looking at the standings, I see a 1 point difference in 19th place vs 22nd and 2 points difference in 12th vs 15th.  Is that even a negligible difference?  I mean Osorio is an obvious starter for TFC, so we could say his absence could and should make a difference.  Either way, I'm sure he and Laryea will bring a positive boost, especially with the recent accomplishments and highs.  Fingers crossed!

The level of opponents is only slightly different.

The big difference is the team wins or draws 64% of the games he plays in compared to 11% of the games he doesn't.

Edited July 9 by Kingston

[Kingston]

3 hours ago, anthony7 said:

Right, so what specific game can you use as an example which demonstrates some of what you were saying in the 2nd paragraph?

You want me to re-watch a bunch of games to give you specific instances of particular plays and passes that demonstrate what I wrote?  Would you like game-clock time references for those?  Go do your own homework.

[Big_M]

In todays training sound herdman said the return of servania which was supposed to be july is now pushed back to august and etienne (hand) and gomis (contusion) are questionable for tomorrow

[Club Linesman]

I thought a new staff would finally allow our players to actually play a full season and minimize injuries which has been an issue the previous years.  Guess not. This team fully healthy has the talent to make the playoffs.  As it is Oslo and Richie will make a massive difference when they return, hopefully after a championship.

[anthony7]

29 minutes ago, Kingston said:

You want me to re-watch a bunch of games to give you specific instances of particular plays and passes that demonstrate what I wrote?  Would you like game-clock time references for those?  Go do your own homework.

Exactly, you can’t. It’s just complete bullshit. I can give you specific games where Flores, Longstaff & Coello all showed their influence. You can’t even come up with one game this season where Passenger Oso was influential.

It’s people like you that are ok with this fraud getting minutes at Copa over a two time MLS All Star in Choinere who can’t even get a minute on the pitch. The guy was the weakest link against Venezuela. A complete passenger throughout that game.

The guy is washed and has no business being captain of TFC. Lead by example? LMFAO!!!! If he’s not ghosting on the pitch, he’s throwing his arms up in the air at other players while making worst mistakes. Like did you watch this guy last season.

Edited July 9 by anthony7

[Kingston]

^ You seem to think it is up to me to convince you that you are wrong.  The reality of Osorio's positions on both TFC and the national team puts the burden of proof definitively in your court.  Yet, all you can come up with are vituperative rants.  I gave you the benefit of the doubt and engaged with you once politely, but what you are doing starts with T and rhymes with rolling.  Good day. 

Edited July 9 by Kingston

[Trois Reds]

15 minutes ago, anthony7 said:

Exactly, you can’t. It’s just complete bullshit. I can give you specific games where Flores, Longstaff & Coello all showed their influence. You can’t even come up with one game this season where Passenger Oso was influential.

Can you? Please, tell us one specific game where each of them showed their influence. It obviously hasn't been when Osorio has been playing for Canada, TFC last won against CS Saint-Laurent in May.

Otherwise, please stop. This team has way bigger problems, like allowing 2 goals per game for 3 and a half years. If Osorio was in net or on defence, I could understand the hate. But he's not.

[Corazon]

1 hour ago, costarg said:

Let me see if I understand.

The average team ranking in wins with Osorio is 19 while without its 22.

And the average team ranking in losses with Osorio is 12 vs 15 without.

Looking at the standings, I see a 1 point difference in 19th place vs 22nd and 2 points difference in 12th vs 15th.  Is that even a negligible difference?  I mean Osorio is an obvious starter for TFC, so we could say his absence could and should make a difference.  Either way, I'm sure he and Laryea will bring a positive boost, especially with the recent accomplishments and highs.  Fingers crossed!

I apologize if it wasn't clear.  @Kingston did much better job explaining the point.

In your post, you focused on the team rankings of the opponents that TFC beat while Osorio was playing and you were suggesting that the early success were based more so around the quality of opponents were much easier.  But I felt like you only went through half the exercise, so I was just mirroring your method of providing the rankings of TFC opponents for both with and without Osorio playing.

I do agree with you that averages of losses/wins for both with and without Osorio are quite minimal.    However, the average opponent rankings for wins with Osorio actually show they are harder opponents than their lone win without him.  And the average opponent rankings for losses without Osorio show they are easier opponents than the average of opponents for losses with Osorio in the lineup.  Again, despite these showing slightly better for Osorio, they are quite negligible.  The emphasis of the message as @Kingston mentions, is not the negligible difference of rankings but rather the important difference is the team wins or draws 64% of the games he plays in compared to 11% of the games he doesn't.  Again, this is on top of the average rankings that you used to demonstrate in your original analysis.  An analysis that also isn't true if the exercise was completed fully. 

By the way, I do fully agree, that the opponents TFC have faced more recently are better than early on.  I also have no doubt, if Osorio was playing in recent games, there would still be a lot of losses as Osorio isn't fixing all the problems.  But I was suggesting that they were getting wins against the mediocre to bad teams early on in the season.  The same level of mediocre to poor teams are now beating TFC without Osorio.

Edited July 9 by Corazon

[longlugan]

1 hour ago, anthony7 said:

Exactly, you can’t. It’s just complete bullshit. I can give you specific games where Flores, Longstaff & Coello all showed their influence. You can’t even come up with one game this season where Passenger Oso was influential.

It’s people like you that are ok with this fraud getting minutes at Copa over a two time MLS All Star in Choinere who can’t even get a minute on the pitch. The guy was the weakest link against Venezuela. A complete passenger throughout that game.

The guy is washed and has no business being captain of TFC. Lead by example? LMFAO!!!! If he’s not ghosting on the pitch, he’s throwing his arms up in the air at other players while making worst mistakes. Like did you watch this guy last season.

I miss Ozzie's rational views on CPL attendance.

[anthony7]

3 hours ago, Trois Reds said:

Can you? Please, tell us one specific game where each of them showed their influence. It obviously hasn't been when Osorio has been playing for Canada, TFC last won against CS Saint-Laurent in May.

Otherwise, please stop. This team has way bigger problems, like allowing 2 goals per game for 3 and a half years. If Osorio was in net or on defence, I could understand the hate. But he's not.

Easy.

Flores had a bunch. First of the game the season vs Cincinnati (Away). MOTM performance. That mentality & willingness to break up play. TFC does not come out with a point if he is not in that game. He set the tone and was a big reason as to why TFC had such a positive start to the season. Oso was hardly existent throughout the game.

Flores vs Montreal (Home) John Herdman comes out and says it was his best game in a TFC shirt. Was essentially the definition of the #6/destroyer position. Breaking up plays and assists Berna with an excellent progressive pass. All Herdman has said about Oso is that he is running and chasing shadows but nothing influential.

Longstaff vs Orlando (Away). Comes off the bench, brings energy and completely changes the dynamic of the game. Had the vision and passing range to find Berna. TFC then gets a last minute winner. Longstaff vs Montreal (Home). His movement off the ball, the interchange between him & Berna. Tops it off with a great goal. This was the game in particular where you saw that this team plays better without invisible Oso.

Coello vs Atlanta (Home). His best game of the season overall. Made some really big and important tackles. There were 3-4 plays that he made that shifted the momentum of the game. He filled the void of Flores and showed the influence Flores has had on his game. Is Oso’s game rubbing off on the younger players? Isn’t he suppose to be the captain?

These 3 guys are also on great salaries but are now being run into the ground as TFC has no depth.

Passenger Oso has no influence and is complete waste in that CAM position. He is part of the problem. TFC needs that true #10 to change the overall dynamic and be that link for our forwards. Did you see what Mukhtar did to us when we played Nashville? That shit right there is exactly what this team has been missing. Change the dynamic of the game at the drop off a dime. That fraud Oso can’t do shit. Ok? So you need to be quiet.🤫

Edited July 10 by anthony7

[Trois Reds]

52 minutes ago, anthony7 said:

Easy.

Flores had a bunch. First of the game the season vs Cincinnati (Away). MOTM performance. That mentality & willingness to break up play. TFC does not come out with a point if he is not in that game. He set the tone and was a big reason as to why TFC had such a positive start to the season. Oso was hardly existent throughout the game.

Flores vs Montreal (Home) John Herdman comes out and says it was his best game in a TFC shirt. Was essentially the definition of the #6/destroyer position. Breaking up plays and sets up Bern’s with an excellent progressive pass. All Herdman has said about Oso is that he is running and chasing shadows but nothing influential.

Longstaff vs Orlando (Away). Comes off the bench, brings energy and completely changes the dynamic of the game. Had the vision and passing range to find Berna. TFC then gets a last minute winner. Longstaff vs Montreal (Home). His movement off the ball, the interchange between him & Berna. Tops it off with a great goal. This was the game in particular where you saw that this team plays better without invisible Oso.

Coello vs Atlanta (Home). His best game of the season overall. Made some really big and important tackles. There were 3-4 plays that he made that shifted the momentum of the game. He filled the void of Flores and showed the influence Flores has had on his game. Is Oso’s game rubbing off on the younger players? Isn’t he suppose to be the captain?

These 3 guys are also on great salaries but are now being run into the ground as TFC has no depth.

Passenger Oso has no influence and is complete waste in that CAM position. He is part of the problem. TFC needs that true #10 to change the overall dynamic and be that link for our forwards. Did you see what Mukhtar did to us when we played Nashville? That shit right there is exactly what this team has been missing. Change the dynamic of the game at the drop off a dime. That fraud Oso can’t do shit. Ok? 

Flores has been invisible since May, about the time this TFC last won a game. If Longstaff's best contribution for you is off the bench, he's obviously not the answer to start. Coello has personally been the main reason for at least two or three goals I've seen lately, including a brutal one in Chicago where he cleared the ball off his own face and gave the guy a breakaway. For me, all three of these players are busts, even if Flores started strong.

1 hour ago, anthony7 said:

 So you need to be quiet. 

If you're going to be rude, you can always take your own advice.

[anthony7]

14 minutes ago, Trois Reds said:

Flores has been invisible since May, about the time this TFC last won a game. If Longstaff's best contribution for you is off the bench, he's obviously not the answer to start. Coello has personally been the main reason for at least two or three goals I've seen lately, including a brutal one in Chicago where he cleared the ball off his own face and gave the guy a breakaway. For me, all three of these players are busts, even if Flores started strong.

If you're going to be rude, you can always take your own advice.

I guess you have comprehension problems? Or maybe you’re just dumb or stupid? You asked at what point this season have these players been influential. I provided you numerous examples. 

These guys have been playing week in and week out and unfortunately it’s caught up to them. The team has no depth which is why Herdman is going into the transfer market. Comprende? Or is it still too difficult for you to understand?

Edited July 10 by anthony7

[Trois Reds]

If they were good enough, they would be winning without Osorio. Capish?

Go back under your bridge. Please.

Edited July 10 by Trois Reds

[SthMelbRed]

4 hours ago, anthony7 said:

It’s ok. Unfortunately, I can’t really have a conversation with a person who is a little mentally challenged. Please take care of yourself and make sure you get the help that you need. ✌️

Were you recently dropped on your head, mate? You're honestly approaching Robert levels of fuckwittery. 

[longlugan]

5 hours ago, SthMelbRed said:

Were you recently dropped on your head, mate? You're honestly approaching Robert levels of fuckwittery. 

Little man is just suffering from Napoleon Syndrome. Plus he won't be able to answer you for a while...his mom made him clean his room.

[Kingston]

Back on the topic of TFC, what are people expecting for a line up and a result tonight against Forge?

[Big_M]

Out
Coello
Laryea
Osorio
Servania
Spicer

Questionable
Etienne
Gomis

+must start 3 canadians

basically between gavran rutty franklin thompson kerr we gotta start 3 of them

gotta be careful with o'neill who is just back and started last game

owusu
insigne kerr
rutty flores longstaff bernardeschi
petretta long rosted
gavran

bench johnson o'neill mabika franklin etienne thompson +call up a striker maybe sharp

[fil]

Something needs to change...

 

[jordan]

Least next time Oso, and Laryea are back

[Metro]

 

[Kingston]

Yet another very disappointing game.

There is simply no way a team with TFC's resources should be dropping matches to CPL sides.  This should not be a case of "we got an away goal so we're aren't too badly placed for the return match".  TFC should have the players in place to be able to field a B squad and still win against teams with less than 10% TFC's payroll.

As for this particular match, there are some observations.  I'm not sure what's up with Canadian goalies lately but stay in your net!  Seriously, the other team should not be scoring from centre whether it is Forge or Chile.

I hope the upgrades we've been promised next week include a retooling of the defense.  It's been our weakest spot for a long time now and needs to be entirely redone.  The defending on Forge's second goal was simply not good enough.

Thompson is not cutting it.  His decision making is too slow which is resulting in bad touches on the ball and poor passing.  Kerr and JMR are much better overall and should have been starting for this match.

We should have scored more, including Insigne missing from the penalty spot five minutes in, which would have put an entirely different spin on the game.  But Forge also could have had more as both teams hit the woodwork.

In the big picture, we are in an okay, but not good, spot coming home for the second leg.  That simply should not be the case, however, when playing against a team from the CPL.

[Kingston]

3 minutes ago, Metro said:

 

Good!  

[narduch]

14 minutes ago, Metro said:

 

Holy shit. Forge got him fired. Finally