Toronto FC - 2024 Season Thread

[costarg]

13 minutes ago, mtroads said:

You joke about Brym, but he's scored a lot more than Akinola and Owusu this season.

It's not a shot at Brym or Fraser, both are playing and doing well.  All coaches have their favorites, it's just part of the game.

[Bison44]

9 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Herdman has only been there for 7 months, you can't expect him to have figured things out that quickly.

With Canada it took him a few years. I don't know what people expect from him.

You know exactly what people expected.  They thought he was going to pull some sort of miracle, because thats what he likes everyone to believe he can do.  Lets face it, he had the best womens player we've ever had=success, Davies/David etc blossoming for CMNT=success, mixed bag of talent with some poor attitudes on TFC=mixed results.  At least its not a complete shit show like we had with Bradley last year.  Long and Flores seem to be decent players.  

[kacbru]

5 hours ago, Watchmen said:

And he made no major signings.  It's not "his" players yet.

Brotherhood is good and all, but only if it is your brotherhood.

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 hour ago, Bison44 said:

You know exactly what people expected.  They thought he was going to pull some sort of miracle, because thats what he likes everyone to believe he can do.  Lets face it, he had the best womens player we've ever had=success, Davies/David etc blossoming for CMNT=success, mixed bag of talent with some poor attitudes on TFC=mixed results.  At least its not a complete shit show like we had with Bradley last year.  Long and Flores seem to be decent players.  

I was trying to be ironical but many here bought it: he was signed last September and he still is a long way from figuring it out. I was trying to take a crack at him. Oh well.

I recall in recent seasons, at Whitecaps, you'd get this far into a season and we'd hear the same excuses. As if they hadn't done a preseason, as if they only started looking at the squad when the season began. It was excuses and more excuses. If you have a team from a previous season, and you can't plan to get it ready for the start of the next, you have a problem. Unless the club is not behind you, which of course is not the case at TFC.

 

[SthMelbRed]

Can we all agree that turning a container ship around 360 takes a bit of time?

[reggietfc]

it still is 75% of last years squad playing the bulk of min,this is not herdmens team yet

on a sidenote a good showing by u 15s and u 17s at the GA,U17S beat psv 3 nil today and the u 15s beat brondby 2 nil for 3rd place

 

[BearcatSA]

Some observations of what I saw in person on Saturday afternoon from TFC:

- they got a lot of joy on finding Long at the far post on dead ball service and I thought they would bag one from the second phase because Takaoka  usually struggles (not unlike a lot of other keepers, I suppose) with that ball coming back across the face of his goal

- from what I have seen in previous matches as well as Saturday afternoon, Long is not a guy you want isolated in a 1 v 1 foot race against anyone with a modicum of pace

- Kosi Thompson is indeed becoming the new Chris Pozniak:  he came in as the RCB in place of O'Neil, so how many different positions has he played for TFC during his career?  Maybe this one is the one, otherwise he'll be washing out.

- Kerr showed some good things and he created the two best chances of the game for TFC (though the second came via a hospital back pass from Vite that put Veselinovic and Takaoka in trouble), he drew fouls and he is a good athlete out there with some skills but I found that he did more reacting and not enough initiating with his movement off the ball.  He seems to be a one eyed king in the TFC land of the striker blind

- Marshall-Rutty had some positive moments but for him to be involved in the Copa squad, as a poster or two have suggested here, he would need to be really "lights out" in his play.  Neither he nor Spicer really showed much on the wings during this one:  they didn't provide a "scare" factor to the opposition, and;

- perhaps that's why we see so much hero ball from Bernadeschi:  he just doesn't really trust those two players and so he holds the ball for too many touches instead and that kills the attacking movement.  There were times when I thought "Okay, pass it now...now...too late" and the window had closed with the defenders back in a better position.  He is a very frustrating player at the moment, not just disappointing.  Maybe he gets moved in the summer?

- Osorio is a lightning rod for heated debate around here but I think he is a very good linking player, playing to his strength of keeping the possession rolling with smart touches.  But he is not a "10" or pure CAM, never has been even when at his best, so if the other guys in the "Hollywood" positions are substandard, he isn't a tide that raises the other boats, so to speak.  I am happy to see that the concussion issues seem to be behind him but I do see the critics' arguments about the defensive aspects of his game

- Flores got really exposed on the first goal because he seemed totally unaware of the danger of the pressing White and was totally surprised by his presence.  Not sure what the communication on the field was like on that one.  A play and a match to forget but I still think he has helped with his defensive graft in the middle of the park.

- Longstaff was JAG (just a guy) out there.  No impact and was not in sync with his teammates on positioning and passing.  It might be awhile before he is at an optimum level of performance.

- Clown college marking on the second and final garbage minutes goals

- Even though they got their asses kicked, Herdman had them in the brotherhood huddle on the field at the end of the game while the Caps players were doing the victory lap waves to the crowd.  I presume every TFC outfield player and coaching/support staff member was in that huddle.  Read into that what you will. 

 

   

[Unnamed Trialist]

9 hours ago, reggietfc said:

it still is 75% of last years squad playing the bulk of min,this is not herdmens team yet

 

You are not seriously arguing that the team is not the coach's until he changes most of the previous players? As long as Insigne and Bernadeschi are there, he'll always have an excuse?

If that is the case, don't even change the coach. Keep the coach and change the players. 

Nowhere in the world does a new coach come in changing the majority of the roster. Unless it's to launder money or something.

You're supposed to be an improvement on the previous coach, meaning you can take some or most of the same pieces, and play them in a way where the results are better. It could be argued that is already happening. So which is it: the better results are Herdman's but the bad ones are not?

In any case, Herdman was hired in September and had half a dozen games to analyze the previous roster, then all off-season, then the pre-season. And the team has the money and he has the club's backing to buy a few roster pieces and move others out, and he hasn't in a very effective way yet?

As I say, I made this argument for many consecutive seasons with the Caps, who have had years of bad starts. You should be starting the season ready, as long as the club itself is not boycotting you or you were just hired in Februrary.

[Unnamed Trialist]

2 hours ago, BearcatSA said:

Some observations of what I saw in person on Saturday afternoon from TFC:

- they got a lot of joy on finding Long at the far post on dead ball service and I thought they would bag one from the second phase because Takaoka  usually struggles (not unlike a lot of other keepers, I suppose) with that ball coming back across the face of his goal

- from what I have seen in previous matches as well as Saturday afternoon, Long is not a guy you want isolated in a 1 v 1 foot race against anyone with a modicum of pace

- Kosi Thompson is indeed becoming the new Chris Pozniak:  he came in as the RCB in place of O'Neil, so how many different positions has he played for TFC during his career?  Maybe this one is the one, otherwise he'll be washing out.

- Kerr showed some good things and he created the two best chances of the game for TFC (though the second came via a hospital back pass from Vite that put Veselinovic and Takaoka in trouble), he drew fouls and he is a good athlete out there with some skills but I found that he did more reacting and not enough initiating with his movement off the ball.  He seems to be a one eyed king in the TFC land of the striker blind

- Marshall-Rutty had some positive moments but for him to be involved in the Copa squad, as a poster or two have suggested here, he would need to be really "lights out" in his play.  Neither he nor Spicer really showed much on the wings during this one:  they didn't provide a "scare" factor to the opposition, and;

- perhaps that's why we see so much hero ball from Bernadeschi:  he just doesn't really trust those two players and so he holds the ball for too many touches instead and that kills the attacking movement.  There were times when I thought "Okay, pass it now...now...too late" and the window had closed with the defenders back in a better position.  He is a very frustrating player at the moment, not just disappointing.  Maybe he gets moved in the summer?

- Osorio is a lightning rod for heated debate around here but I think he is a very good linking player, playing to his strength of keeping the possession rolling with smart touches.  But he is not a "10" or pure CAM, never has been even when at his best, so if the other guys in the "Hollywood" positions are substandard, he isn't a tide that raises the other boats, so to speak.  I am happy to see that the concussion issues seem to be behind him but I do see the critics' arguments about the defensive aspects of his game

- Flores got really exposed on the first goal because he seemed totally unaware of the danger of the pressing White and was totally surprised by his presence.  Not sure what the communication on the field was like on that one.  A play and a match to forget but I still think he has helped with his defensive graft in the middle of the park.

- Longstaff was JAG (just a guy) out there.  No impact and was not in sync with his teammates on positioning and passing.  It might be awhile before he is at an optimum level of performance.

- Clown college marking on the second and final garbage minutes goals

- Even though they got their asses kicked, Herdman had them in the brotherhood huddle on the field at the end of the game while the Caps players were doing the victory lap waves to the crowd.  I presume every TFC outfield player and coaching/support staff member was in that huddle.  Read into that what you will. 

I especially agree about Bernardeschi, that is a problem you see often. But the player needs to believe in the guys around him, and be convinced to play with them.

As for Osorio, also agree. He is a decent linking player, could be for Canada too, and is just needing to clearly get over his health issues and show more pace and intensity.

Finally, regarding the give-away: it reminded me of what happened when Staq was stripped for that Jamaica goal in Toronto, where the RB started to race forward instead of offering a clear outside outlet. This attacking enthusiasm (Johnston's in that case) when in a defensive mode still is poor reading of the game situation. It was still Flores' fault, but he turned and saw no one, either they were too close or poorly spaced.

[BearcatSA]

5 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I especially agree about Bernardeschi, that is a problem you see often. But the player needs to believe in the guys around him, and be convinced to play with them.

As for Osorio, also agree. He is a decent linking player, could be for Canada too, and is just needing to clearly get over his health issues and show more pace and intensity.

He made one correct, right time key pass to Kerr for his good 1 v 1  chance in the first half, and that was about it for open play.  I will give him props for finding Long on the free kicks, however.

Edited April 8 by BearcatSA

[reggietfc]

6 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

You are not seriously arguing that the team is not the coach's until he changes most of the previous players? As long as Insigne and Bernadeschi are there, he'll always have an excuse?

If that is the case, don't even change the coach. Keep the coach and change the players. 

Nowhere in the world does a new coach come in changing the majority of the roster. Unless it's to launder money or something.

You're supposed to be an improvement on the previous coach, meaning you can take some or most of the same pieces, and play them in a way where the results are better. It could be argued that is already happening. So which is it: the better results are Herdman's but the bad ones are not?

In any case, Herdman was hired in September and had half a dozen games to analyze the previous roster, then all off-season, then the pre-season. And the team has the money and he has the club's backing to buy a few roster pieces and move others out, and he hasn't in a very effective way yet?

As I say, I made this argument for many consecutive seasons with the Caps, who have had years of bad starts. You should be starting the season ready, as long as the club itself is not boycotting you or you were just hired in Februrary.

im not arguing anything bro its a opinion....he has been bitching about the roster and the lack of moves for months,he would of loved a clean new roster but there are 6 or 7 guys with unmovable contracts.

im not a big herdman fan...to be fair he has done a good job considering the injuries.i think alot of teams would struggle if you were missing your 2 best players for 8 to 12 wks

Edited April 8 by reggietfc

[Kingston]

Another loss.  Never what you want to see but playing away to (one of) the best team in the league it is not an unexpected result.  Herdman has gotten a lot more out of this roster than Bradley did but it it still the roster of a 0.500ish club.

Some thoughts and silver linings:

I thought Kerr played well.  Takaoka made two great saves on him when the score was still 0-1, otherwise we may have gotten back in the game.  The goals should eventually start to come for him.

Our defense made some terrible mistakes.  Not ordinarily a silver lining, but at least two of Vancouver's goals were off of really bad - and very correctable - errors.  So not the kind of thing we'll  likely see repeated.

We were still missing some key players due to injury.  Not saying we otherwise win this game but even having Insigne and Laryea back would have made a decided difference.

The team is still in a good mental space.  I'll take a 0.500 club that plays hard as opposed to the giving up we saw last year.

Game seven last season was a draw away at Nashville for our 8th point.  Despite this loss, we are still at +2 on the season.

[Bigandy]

On 4/8/2024 at 3:09 AM, Unnamed Trialist said:

You are not seriously arguing that the team is not the coach's until he changes most of the previous players? As long as Insigne and Bernadeschi are there, he'll always have an excuse?

If that is the case, don't even change the coach. Keep the coach and change the players. 

Nowhere in the world does a new coach come in changing the majority of the roster. Unless it's to launder money or something.

You're supposed to be an improvement on the previous coach, meaning you can take some or most of the same pieces, and play them in a way where the results are better. It could be argued that is already happening. So which is it: the better results are Herdman's but the bad ones are not?

In any case, Herdman was hired in September and had half a dozen games to analyze the previous roster, then all off-season, then the pre-season. And the team has the money and he has the club's backing to buy a few roster pieces and move others out, and he hasn't in a very effective way yet?

As I say, I made this argument for many consecutive seasons with the Caps, who have had years of bad starts. You should be starting the season ready, as long as the club itself is not boycotting you or you were just hired in Februrary.

I'm not sure this is true. Klopp, Arteta, pep, guardiola, ten hag all had rebuilds. It takes time to get the players to fit your system but it gradually happens with every coach. Most coaches say they need time to get train the system and get players they need. 

Look at city's transfers. Almost all of them were success or minor risk signings. (if you include buying and selling some youngsters). 

Phillips was a disaster. 
Danilo was average but was a back up RB and LB until city could solve this position with elite players.
Nolito refused to learn english and was banished after christmas. 
Torres filled a hole and was a prospect who wasnt happy in manchester. 

Pep got rid of jovetic, bony, dzeko,mangala, hart, nasri, demichelis, iheanacho,fernando, kolarov, navas, zabaleta, cabellero, clichy in his first 2 years. Massive turnover and it took a few years for city to become this dominant. 

Herdmans hands are tied on how much squad shuffling he can do but its a garbage roster build so it will take time for him to get the players he needs to implement his system and vision. 
 

[Unnamed Trialist]

55 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

I'm not sure this is true. Klopp, Arteta, pep, guardiola, ten hag all had rebuilds. It takes time to get the players to fit your system but it gradually happens with every coach. Most coaches say they need time to get train the system and get players they need. 

Look at city's transfers. Almost all of them were success or minor risk signings. (if you include buying and selling some youngsters). 

Phillips was a disaster. 
Danilo was average but was a back up RB and LB until city could solve this position with elite players.
Nolito refused to learn english and was banished after christmas. 
Torres filled a hole and was a prospect who wasnt happy in manchester. 

Pep got rid of jovetic, bony, dzeko,mangala, hart, nasri, demichelis, iheanacho,fernando, kolarov, navas, zabaleta, cabellero, clichy in his first 2 years. Massive turnover and it took a few years for city to become this dominant. 

Herdmans hands are tied on how much squad shuffling he can do but its a garbage roster build so it will take time for him to get the players he needs to implement his system and vision. 
 

Fair enough, but it is still partially a cop out. And the comparison isn't great because a new coach like Guardiola was tasked with building a Champions League winner, the barrier of EPL had already fallen with Aguero. All Herdman has to do is not come last and then, be close to the playoffs. It's a rebuild to be midtable.

I agree this team I'd better than last year's. And also agree that even vs Whitecaps they were unlucky not to score in that double post.

It just irks me that you can start a season after months prep with your entire technical staff and a full preseason and still be scratching for excuses.

[Bigandy]

1 minute ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Fair enough, but it is still partially a cop out. And the comparison isn't great because a new coach like Guardiola was tasked with building a Champions League winner, the barrier of EPL had already fallen with Aguero. All Herdman has to do is not come last and then, be close to the playoffs. It's a rebuild to be midtable.

I agree this team I'd better than last year's. And also agree that even vs Whitecaps they were unlucky not to score in that double post.

It just irks me that you can start a season after months prep with your entire technical staff and a full preseason and still be scratching for excuses.

If I had known this was what you meant, I would have agreed up front. Such a cop out. Although theres a good chance TFC end up mid table. They made some clever moves that help fill out the roster but doesnt really elevate them to a proper team. 

The only thing that isnt a cop out is the injuries to insigne and a lack of a striker. A team should be able to cope without insigne but TFC need Kerr to really step up this year.... 

[Kingston]

29 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Fair enough, but it is still partially a cop out. And the comparison isn't great because a new coach like Guardiola was tasked with building a Champions League winner, the barrier of EPL had already fallen with Aguero. All Herdman has to do is not come last and then, be close to the playoffs. It's a rebuild to be midtable.

I agree this team I'd better than last year's. And also agree that even vs Whitecaps they were unlucky not to score in that double post.

It just irks me that you can start a season after months prep with your entire technical staff and a full preseason and still be scratching for excuses.

I think it's important to set out the expectation as you have done by stating that TFC is a mid-table team.

It would be unfair to expect Herdman to lead the team to the Cup this season since he has been largely unable to make any roster moves.  It is totally fair to expect him to deliver on a mid-table team.  So we can judge his successfulness by that standard.

[Ivan]

Kapor named to the best 11 at Generation Adidas Cup. U17 and U15s combined.

[Kingston]

This Saturday's game will be an interesting one for assessing where the team is actually at and how the season will pan out.

On the plus side, we've done well against Charlotte in their short history.  They are also a team that is at pretty much the same spot in the standings as we are.

On the down side, it's away at Charlotte and we are still missing Insigne, Laryea, Petretta, Servania, and Gomis while Charlotte's only noteworthy absence is the defender Byrne.

So the kind of game that is challenging but still realistically has points up for grabs.  How we do in games like this will go a long way to proving just what Herdman can get out of the team and to determining whether TFC finishes just in or just out of the playoffs.

[narduch]

12 minutes ago, Kingston said:

This Saturday's game will be an interesting one for assessing where the team is actually at and how the season will pan out.

On the plus side, we've done well against Charlotte in their short history.  They are also a team that is at pretty much the same spot in the standings as we are.

On the down side, it's away at Charlotte and we are still missing Insigne, Laryea, Petretta, Servania, and Gomis while Charlotte's only noteworthy absence is the defender Byrne.

So the kind of game that is challenging but still realistically has points up for grabs.  How we do in games like this will go a long way to proving just what Herdman can get out of the team and to determining whether TFC finishes just in or just out of the playoffs.

The injury situation is worse...

 

 

 

[YorkRegionFan]

On 4/10/2024 at 8:51 PM, Ivan said:

Kapor named to the best 11 at Generation Adidas Cup. U17 and U15s combined.

here is the Article from the MLS website

[BearcatSA]

43 minutes ago, Kingston said:

On the down side, it's away at Charlotte and we are still missing Insigne, Laryea, Petretta, Servania, and Gomis while Charlotte's only noteworthy absence is the defender Byrne.

But are you really "missing" Servania and Petretta?  Judging from comments on here and on other fan forums, those two absences would be considered addition by subtraction.  

[Kingston]

5 minutes ago, BearcatSA said:

But are you really "missing" Servania and Petretta?  Judging from comments on here and on other fan forums, those two absences would be considered addition by subtraction.  

You raise a good point.  I'm not actually that keen on Gomis, either.  So really it's Insigne and Laryea but those two alone are big pieces, as is O'Neill.

[Unnamed Trialist]

So many injuries, maybe Herdman is not used to coaching at a club pace, just saying. It is something you have to look at, how you train, training load, pace, as well as factors like performance stress.

If they were mostly muscular and ligaments you could argue this, if they were knocks it'd be different.

In any case, with Canada you had guys come in fit already, 2 to 3 matches in a window, back to their clubs. You really never worked on fitness, except I guess for the WC itself, ensuring everyone transitioned from club to country. 

[narduch]

This has been an issue for the club for years now. Was hoping it would improve with Herdman but it hasn't.

I wonder if its climate related. The team does a lot of training on fake turf, at least until the weather improves.

[BearcatSA]

25 minutes ago, narduch said:

This has been an issue for the club for years now. Was hoping it would improve with Herdman but it hasn't.

I wonder if its climate related. The team does a lot of training on fake turf, at least until the weather improves.

NER plays home games on fake turf and likely practises on the same so I think it is worthwhile to compare their injury situation to TFC's.