Toronto FC - 2024 Season Thread

[BearcatSA]

On 7/4/2024 at 6:18 AM, Kingston said:

Another very disappointing game.  My three thoughts:

On offence, regenerated some movement going forward, but very few actual good chances. Too many hopeful, long crosses and not enough penetration in the box into dangerous areas.

On defense, the opposite was true. We gave away too many reasonable opportunities so Orlando was bound to score eventually. I’ve been a bad luck on your own goal obviously but I don’t think our defence is at the level it needs to be.

Non-sarcastically, we really missed Osorio being a solid presence in the centre of the field.  We were missing that guy who could break up Orlando’s attacks at midfield and get the ball turned around the other way. Many times we also cleared the ball from our box but then immediately gave it up again in the middle of the park.  I will be glad to see him back.

Last season we also lost this game so we remain at +5 on the season.

Getting Osorio and Laryea will definitely help but frankly this is a very dodgy defensive team right now.  In particular, each member of the back three is questionable with marking and positional awareness (Mablika, "Roasted") or athleticism/pace (Long).  They might give up fewer chances with better posseession but I still think they'll be regularly conceding goals.  And overall, I am still seeing the same disjointed performances around the pitch, both in attack as well as team defending.

I wonder if Herdman might take a page from struggling NFL head coaches by doing some fire walling of his own position through reshuffling his coaching staff?  I doubt it, because unlike pointy ball, the buck in club soccer really does stop with the head coaching but you never know.  This is the first time in his coaching career where he has had to face a week in and week out grind (and, in this case, slump) so trying to get a team out of this increasingly negative situation is a big challenge for a coach who could spend considerable time between international matches to reflect, distract, and reorganize.  They need a bump somewhere.

And though last year was a complete sh*t show on so many levels, even before the Dunfield dive, this team is only five points better, with three more losses somewhat counteractng the four extra wins.  And the recent form is very poor.  Not so hot.

 

 

Edited July 6 by BearcatSA

[anthony7]

59 minutes ago, Kingston said:

On Saturday we are away at Columbus.  This has the makings of a bad game for TFC as Columbus is a better team, is in good form, and will have very few missing players.

Those whose Saturday plans do not include travel to Columbus may be happy to know that the game is free on AppleTV.

It’s only free on Apple TV because TSN is also showing it. Apple are complete snakes.

Edited July 4 by anthony7

[saladroit]

 

[Bison44]

Are they planting a sword in the ground?

[kacbru]

All show, all the time.  It doesn't take 10+ minutes to say you all played like shit.

[Bison44]

I'm torn on that, is it MR SIZZLE trying to show off a bit, or maybe he kept them out there to publically embarass them, dress them down where everyone can see??  Maybe they are secretly filming it all for another "brotherhood" movie, except its more Cain vs Abel in this TFC version.  

[kacbru]

1 minute ago, Bison44 said:

Maybe they are secretly filming it all for another "brotherhood" movie, except its more Cain vs Abel in this TFC version.  

Seriously, I wouldn't be surprised if there are producers with a couple of "scripts" on hand, depending on results, whispering in his ear to produce content.  

I watched the first episode of the Man City thing on netflix - absolutely painful.  Obviously contrived, manufactured content, with Pep being even more of an arrogant clown than usual, but that's what I think of Man City to begin with.  I loved the first two seasons of Sutherland til I die, but the copycats are all terrible (haven't seen Wrexham). 

However, I would be all in for an Office-type spoof docu following TFC's failures.  That would be fun and there's lots of potential material.

[Kingston]

I'm not sure why people are so quick to ascribe ulterior motives to Herdman as if everything he does is a PR move.  It feels like if he talks to the players it's "he must be publicly shaming the players so that he'll look good" and if he doesn't talk to the players it's "see how he can't even be bothered to speak to the players just to make sure the loss doesn't appear to have anything to do with him personally".

[fil]

He is the "motivation guy" so he is going to try...

 

[Big_M]

 

[jonovision]

If you're enjoying your soccer too much lately and need a taste of something different, the TFC match today is the free game on Apple TV.

[anthony7]

2 hours ago, jonovision said:

If you're enjoying your soccer too much lately and need a taste of something different, the TFC match today is the free game on Apple TV.

It was free on Apple TV because TSN was already showing it. Apple TV are snakes.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

 

[Kingston]

Disappointing but not unexpected.

We remain at +5 on the season.

I'd be curious for anyone's insights as to why we did so well for the first eleven games of the season and so poorly for the last eleven.

Up next is a Wednesday trip down the highway to visit Forge for the opening leg of the Canadian Championship semi-finals.  As with all V-Cup matches, this should be a fun one.  It will be interesting to see Herdman's roster choices for this game.

 

Edited July 8 by Kingston

[PopePouri]

Record with Osorio:

6 wins, 3 draws, 5 losses

Without:

1 win, 0 draws, 8 losses

Stats don't lie.

[jordan]

Was reading in TFC republic that some moves should be ready to go with the transfer window opening. 

[Kingston]

8 minutes ago, jordan said:

Was reading in TFC republic that some moves should be ready to go with the transfer window opening. 

Hopefully starting with some serious upgrades on defense.

[anthony7]

6 hours ago, PopePouri said:

Record with Osorio:

6 wins, 3 draws, 5 losses

Without:

1 win, 0 draws, 8 losses

Stats don't lie.

Yes, they do. If you watched some previous TFC games, they actually play better without him. Specifically, against Montreal & Atlanta at home.

Edited July 8 by anthony7

[PopePouri]

25 minutes ago, anthony7 said:

Yes, they do. If you watched some previous TFC games, they actually play better without him.

That makes no sense.

[anthony7]

37 minutes ago, PopePouri said:

That makes no sense.

Just because a player is in a team doesn’t mean the team plays better as a whole. The guy is a complete passenger for the most part. Rewatch the Montreal game at home. That was when the team’s chemistry was at its highest. Flores, Coello & Longstaff looked amazing together. At the end of the day, TFC’s success this year will rely heavily on Lareya & Bernardeschi. Period.

Edited July 8 by anthony7

[Kingston]

1 hour ago, PopePouri said:

That makes no sense.

You will be best served by ignoring anything anthony7 says.  He’s a one note song of “Osorio is bad”.

Jordan is quite correct to point out the connection between wins and Osorio playing   The same correlation held last season.

 

[costarg]

10 hours ago, Kingston said:

I'd be curious for anyone's insights as to why we did so well for the first eleven games of the season and so poorly for the last eleven.

I don't think it takes that much analysis to understand or break it down.

7 wins came against the teams ranked: 23, 12, 20, 23, 17, 21 & 22.

Draws came against: 1, 26 & 28.

They beat some bad teams and drew some as well.  The outlier being Cincinnati the first week.  Calendar was a little easier earlier in the year, it's just balanced out now.  

[anthony7]

3 hours ago, Kingston said:

You will be best served by ignoring anything anthony7 says.  He’s a one note song of “Osorio is bad”.

Jordan is quite correct to point out the connection between wins and Osorio playing   The same correlation held last season.

 

Right, so please tell me what he is actually doing in the games this season to influence all those wins? Chasing shadows while other players around him are being influential doesn’t really count for much.

Edited July 9 by anthony7

[Corazon]

14 hours ago, costarg said:

I don't think it takes that much analysis to understand or break it down.

7 wins came against the teams ranked: 23, 12, 20, 23, 17, 21 & 22.

Draws came against: 1, 26 & 28.

They beat some bad teams and drew some as well.  The outlier being Cincinnati the first week.  Calendar was a little easier earlier in the year, it's just balanced out now.  

I think you've made some errors in your math , so I've made a couple changes.

Based on current standings - Toronto FC is currently 19th across both Conferences

With Osorio - 6 Win 3 Draw 5 Loss

Win - 23rd, 12th, 20th, 23rd, 17th, 21st = average of 19 (You seem to have added a win against 22nd place Montreal).

Draw - 1st, 26th, 28th = average of 18

Loss - 27th, 11th, 12th, 9th, 1st = average of 12

Without Osorio - 1 Win 8 Losses

Win - 22nd = average of 22

Loss - 9th, 18th, 25th, 18th, 8th, 20th, 17th, 6th = average of 15

Aside from their loss to Kansas City (27th), the 4 other losses with Osorio have been against top teams in the league.  Without Osorio, they've also lost to 3 top teams in the league, but they've also been losing to a bunch of mediocre teams that really don't look much different than the teams they were winning against when Osorio was in the lineup.  

I'm not saying, Osorio is going to come back and be TFC's savior once he's back, because they need a lot more than him.  However, it looks like statistics have been manipulated to make his impact look less significant.  A lot of the teams that they're currently losing to without him in the lineup, are teams at the same level that they were beating/drawing with him in the lineup.

Edited July 9 by Corazon

[Kingston]

12 hours ago, anthony7 said:

Right, so please tell me what he is actually doing in the games this season to influence all those wins? Chasing shadows while other players around him are being influential doesn’t really count for much.

Okay, I will engage with this one time.

Osorio's role is to influence the game in the centre of the park.  He is the guy who helps break up the opponent's attack while it is still near mid field.  He then helps lead the transition into his team's attack to get the ball in to the other team's end under control.

If you watch him in a game, you will see that his positioning is excellent.  He reads the developing play and gets where he needs to be a couple of moves before the ball does.  Once he has the ball, he is incredibly calm and very rarely loses possession.  (He's currently top of TFC for pass percentage at 92%.)  He's also a dedicated, soft spoken, lead-by-example mentor for younger players; there's a reason he's the only over 30 national team player that kept his spot post-WC 2022 and there's a reason he's TFC's captain.

If you're judging him as "absent" because you don't see him making dramatic goal line clearances or scoring lots of goals, you're missing the point.  His impact is in the number of chances the other team didn't get and the extra attacking forays his team did get.  By definition when he does his job right he mostly isn't going to draw attention.  I suppose I can see how you might miss his value because it takes a deeper understanding of the game than highlight reel watching and box score counting to appreciate.  Those who do understand, however, - which includes Marsch, Herdman, and fans of both the NT and TFC - appreciate what he does.