CNL: Jamaica vs Canada - Saturday, November 18th - 10:30am EST / 7:30am Pacific - Kingston, Jamaica

[frmr]

This is gonna be ugly. Just get a result and gtfo of there.

[Obinna]

 

[Obinna]

Sounds like Damari Gray is day-to-day based on what JD is saying in this preview video. Great convo all around also. I love the work both of these guys do covering Canada and Jamaica. Both guys are always genuine and respectful and logical, not just here but in their other videos too. 

 

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

28 minutes ago, costarg said:

Height isn't so much a concern.  Their front trio are all around Johnston's height, so not too worried about the aerial battle.

Antonio is still super quick off the ground and has a very decent vertical.  If he's in the mood. 

They used Shamar Nicholson a fair bit in the group stages. He's 6'4.  

Using a 3 means that your wingbacks can help out against wide pace, which is where Bailey and maybe Grey will be. 

Antonio won't run past you these days, he will bully you and keeping working past you with a short burst. If he's in the mood.

[costarg]

4 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

 Using a 3 means that your wingbacks can help out against wide pace, which is where Bailey and maybe Grey will be. 

The wingbacks can help, but the wide attacks remain the biggest vulnerability of a back 3 - which like you say - is where Jamaica lives.  Add Vitoria's lack of speed and over the middle adds another area of deep concern. 

Let it rain.....

[CanadaFan123]

If this match is to be a rainy mess, where is Davies best position? 

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

24 minutes ago, costarg said:

The wingbacks can help, but the wide attacks remain the biggest vulnerability of a back 3 - which like you say - is where Jamaica lives.  Add Vitoria's lack of speed and over the middle adds another area of deep concern. 

Let it rain.....

A functional back 3 is actually better against wide play because you have a guy to contest the cross even if your wide back gets beat and still have a couple guys in the box. 

It's why smart and fast is more important than great in the air in that system.

I am just not sure we have the players for a functional 3, and am undecided.

Unless we are going to play Davies and Buchanan as actual stay at home fullbacks we are always going to be beaten for pace wide.  That's why you bring help with a 3 and allow better offensive players up the pitch where we can win battles. And that's why so many coaches have gone that way in recent years. In my opinion.

But I said somewhere, if we are introducing new defenders, which I think we should, a back 4 would be safest.  But that does not mean Bailey and Grey won't beat Johnston and Adekugbe for pace.  It's just a fact of life and we shouldn't alter our plan to play scared.

Antonio is not in great form, thank goodness,he is finally losing his starting place in club ball. They have weapons, with potential, but so do we, so let's use them.

Edited November 17, 2023 by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[InglewoodJack]

Not that they’re at the same level or that they’re playing under the same context, but funny seeing France’s coach coming out and saying that Warren Zaire Emery, the 17 year old PSG mid might actually start tomorrow; and if not, he’ll definitely be playing, and meanwhile despite what we say, I think all of us would be varying levels of shocked if we see LDF hit the pitch even once over the next week.

[Bigandy]

1 hour ago, costarg said:

Height isn't so much a concern.  Their front trio are all around Johnston's height, so not too worried about the aerial battle. 

I think aerially ability is a massive concern this game. From open play, antonio is likely to want service. With a waterlogged pitch, theyll be pumping every set piece into the box. Also, theyll likely be playing dump and chase (or at the least, pumping balls in the air to antonio) so vitoria is much better at reading the long ball than cornelius and his aerial ability will also help mop up any central long balls. 

 

1 hour ago, InglewoodJack said:

Do we want someone as slow at Vitoria on that kind of pitch though? Assuming we use a back 3, I think we’re probably better off with Cornelius, Miller, and AJ, and worst case Vitoria subs on at half for whoever is playing worst.

 

This is a tough question. If vitoria is going to play one of the legs, is it better on a proper surface or waterlogged pitch. I think the watered down pitch hinders their ability to get in behind, while playing on a proper surface would be more challenging for vitoria. The flipside is that the heavy pitch would make vitoria even slower.... Im not sure so my logic is we want him to deal with the aerial balls today and then hopefully he doesnt get burned for pace too often. 
 

[Cheeta]

1 hour ago, narduch said:

Jamaica closed its schools today due to a Tropical Storm Watch

Love it.  Sort of a "snow day" for the kiddies in the West Indies.  Not at all the same thing as one in Canada but still, sort of the same.

[CanadaFan123]

28 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

Not that they’re at the same level or that they’re playing under the same context, but funny seeing France’s coach coming out and saying that Warren Zaire Emery, the 17 year old PSG mid might actually start tomorrow; and if not, he’ll definitely be playing, and meanwhile despite what we say, I think all of us would be varying levels of shocked if we see LDF hit the pitch even once over the next week.

One has 46 first team appearances for PSG and is a generational talent. The other has 1 appearance against a championship side. 

[InglewoodJack]

19 minutes ago, CanadaFan123 said:

One has 46 first team appearances for PSG and is a generational talent. The other has 1 appearance against a championship side. 

One is the best team on earth, and the other one can’t afford to play every window. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

49 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

I think aerially ability is a massive concern this game. From open play, antonio is likely to want service. With a waterlogged pitch, theyll be pumping every set piece into the box. Also, theyll likely be playing dump and chase (or at the least, pumping balls in the air to antonio) so vitoria is much better at reading the long ball than cornelius and his aerial ability will also help mop up any central long balls. 

 

This is a tough question. If vitoria is going to play one of the legs, is it better on a proper surface or waterlogged pitch. I think the watered down pitch hinders their ability to get in behind, while playing on a proper surface would be more challenging for vitoria. The flipside is that the heavy pitch would make vitoria even slower.... Im not sure so my logic is we want him to deal with the aerial balls today and then hopefully he doesnt get burned for pace too often. 
 

Cornelius is on a champion team more than used to defending big bodies, aerial attacks, on waterlogged pitches, in high pace games. Since I only watched highlights of Sweden, I can't say for sure, but often in a back three for Malmo. 
I wouldn't underestimate how he could handle all that.

I'd say more than Vitoria, who only really sees this back in Canada, occasionally, or saw it as a kid. Portugal rains but lightly, and the play is not direct aerial football anywhere in his league.

[jhoops__]

Victoria has barely played so far this season.   Dude is way beyond the  back nine…

[PastPros]

3 minutes ago, jhoops__ said:

Victoria has barely played so far this season.   Dude is way beyond the  back nine…

You sure about that?

Played in 7 of 11 league matches.

Worst rated player on the team - but he is playing.

[InglewoodJack]

6 minutes ago, jhoops__ said:

Victoria has barely played so far this season.   Dude is way beyond the  back nine…

Just looked at his stats for the first time in a few months and I didn’t realize how bleak it is. Unused sub last two games. 4.4 rating the game prior. Was plucked after 37 minutes a few games prior. Wouldn’t be surprised at all if he hangs them up next summer. 

[Ally McCoist]

3 hours ago, narduch said:

Jamaica closed its schools today due to a Tropical Storm Watch

Bro what the fuck is this team walking into. I'm betting Jamaica win or draw now.

[Bigandy]

50 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Cornelius is on a champion team more than used to defending big bodies, aerial attacks, on waterlogged pitches, in high pace games. Since I only watched highlights of Sweden, I can't say for sure, but often in a back three for Malmo. 
I wouldn't underestimate how he could handle all that.

I'd say more than Vitoria, who only really sees this back in Canada, occasionally, or saw it as a kid. Portugal rains but lightly, and the play is not direct aerial football anywhere in his league.

This seems like a strange take if youre suggesting cornelius is better aerially than vitoria. 

Vitorias best attribute is his aerially ability. Cornelius isnt on the same level. He typically plays lcb and not centrally. I also dont think that this jamaica field will be anything near what malmo plays on, even if it rains in sweden so I wouldnt put any stock into cornelius experience with this type of field. If anything vitoria has way more games in concacaf and has the edge. 

If a long ball is pinged into antonio, I would 100% rather have vitoria challenge than cornelius. However, if theres a ball played into the corner, then obv we want cornelius running channels. Tbh I would be tempted to start cornelius lcb and vitoria cb. 

[jhoops__]

8 minutes ago, PastPros said:

You sure about that?

Played in 7 of 11 league matches.

Worst rated player on the team - but he is playing.

Just over 500 mins isn’t a ton…

[Grandbloke]

Is this game actually going to be played tonight? It’s raining heavily in Kingston and the forecast is for more heavy rain until late this evening. 

[The Real Marc]

 

8 minutes ago, Grandbloke said:

Is this game actually going to be played tonight? It’s raining heavily in Kingston and the forecast is for more heavy rain until late this evening. 

I agree - we need to find a way to keep guys on the margins in the fold.

[RS]

54 minutes ago, Grandbloke said:

Is this game actually going to be played tonight? It’s raining heavily in Kingston and the forecast is for more heavy rain until late this evening. 

 

[El Hombre]

 

So MAK gave an interview.  On the one hand, it's good that he's fired up and maybe having something to prove will get a decent performance out of him.

On the other hand, not sure telling some of the guys in camp with you that he deserved to be there over them is the smartest move.

I wonder if MAK has had a hand in the press releases from the players over the last year because he seems about as media savvy as a sack of hammers.

[InglewoodJack]

8 minutes ago, El Hombre said:

 

So MAK gave an interview.  On the one hand, it's good that he's fired up and maybe having something to prove will get a decent performance out of him.

On the other hand, not sure telling some of the guys in camp with you that he deserved to be there over them is the smartest move.

I wonder if MAK has had a hand in the press releases from the players over the last year because he seems about as media savvy as a sack of hammers.

I would assume you only say this if the players you’re referring to are not at the camp. Ugbo, Brym, I guess Tom McGill, those guys. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 hour ago, Bigandy said:

This seems like a strange take if youre suggesting cornelius is better aerially than vitoria. 

Vitorias best attribute is his aerially ability. Cornelius isnt on the same level. He typically plays lcb and not centrally. I also dont think that this jamaica field will be anything near what malmo plays on, even if it rains in sweden so I wouldnt put any stock into cornelius experience with this type of field. If anything vitoria has way more games in concacaf and has the edge. 

If a long ball is pinged into antonio, I would 100% rather have vitoria challenge than cornelius. However, if theres a ball played into the corner, then obv we want cornelius running channels. Tbh I would be tempted to start cornelius lcb and vitoria cb. 

First, you can't compare for Canada because Cornelius has hardly played. True, for Canada, Vitoria is better, which is easy as we've seen him like 20 games in 2 years and Cornelius maybe 2.

But in their respective leagues Vitoria is not doing those aerial tasks for Chaves, because the Portugal does not play that way, in general; and Cornelius most definitely is doing that kind of work for Malmo. 

But let me agree with you on another post: I too would play them both, do a 4-4-2, and be perfectly happy, at least away this evening.

Edited November 17, 2023 by Unnamed Trialist