MLS 2023 Playoffs Match Thread

[RJB]

Definitely rooting for KC.  The only better would have been a ninth seed. 

[BearcatSA]

Dallas have 10 outfield pkayers behind the ball hemmed in their own end and still Seattle is able to score through Morris:  2-0.

[Shway]

Sorry if it's been mentioned, but this playoff thing is stupid without any aggregate. 

[SoccMan]

8 minutes ago, Shway said:

Sorry if it's been mentioned, but this playoff thing is stupid without any aggregate. 

No it’s not , win two games and you advance , you’ve never witnessed a best two out of three series in sports ? Higher seed plays first game at home and if there is a game 3 it goes back to the higher seed . Teams are always in it does not matter the score in the first game , win the second game by whatever score and force the sudden death third game . I think you see more open soccer , more goals , teams are not worried about going forward and risking conceding more goals that you would in a two game aggregate series .

[Shway]

12 minutes ago, SoccMan said:

No it’s not , win two games and you advance , you’ve never witnessed a best two out of three series in sports ? Higher seed plays first game at home and if there is a game 3 it goes back to the higher seed . Teams are always in it does not matter the score in the first game , win the second game by whatever score and force the sudden death third game . I think you see more open soccer , more goals , teams are not worried about going forward and risking conceding more goals that you would in a two game aggregate series .

I don't know that Dallas Sounders game last night had me thinking aggregate was a thing the way they were just sitting. 

Teams will give up if the game is lost- very entertaining.

[SoccMan]

23 minutes ago, Shway said:

I don't know that Dallas Sounders game last night had me thinking aggregate was a thing the way they were just sitting. 

Teams will give up if the game is lost- very entertaining.

So you have tickets for your home team for the second game of an aggregate two game series , your team just got blown out 4-0 in the first game of an aggregate two game series , your team now has a 4-0 deficit to overcome , good luck with that might as well stay home now because the chances of your team overcoming that deficit are next to nil it’s basically over before the whistle blows in the return leg. In  a non aggregate two out of three a team is always in it no matter the score in that first game . 

Edited November 2, 2023 by SoccMan

[red card]

2 hours ago, SoccMan said:

No it’s not , win two games and you advance , you’ve never witnessed a best two out of three series in sports ? Higher seed plays first game at home and if there is a game 3 it goes back to the higher seed . Teams are always in it does not matter the score in the first game , win the second game by whatever score and force the sudden death third game . I think you see more open soccer , more goals , teams are not worried about going forward and risking conceding more goals that you would in a two game aggregate series .

Traditional for US sports but 2 out of 3 is without precedent in soccer. Given MLS/Apple touts Season Pass a providing global exposure, they put in a format that are culturally abnormal in global football.

The general view so far is thumbs down on the format. Issues cited are the great goals or best moments in matchday 1 don't matter much since there is no aggregate score or puts a team out of it. 

Matchday 2 scheduling is way too after matchday 1 for events of match 1 to make an impact on what comes next. One series match 2 is 11 days after match 1. Only 1 series is less than 7 days apart. They also don't have matches everyday like other sports who have series. This type of pacing basically neutralizes the entertainment value/narratives of 2/3 series you see in other sports. 

It reinforces the long standing view of coaches/players that MLS has too many days off. Some have noted the distinct lack of enthusiasm in some places along with lots of empty seats. The first couple of weeks of the season, CCL & Leagues Cup felt like more of playoff atmosphere. Maybe vibe changes with risk of elimination in matchday 2. 

MLS was so focused on expanding the inventory that it didn’t put enough thought into how the new format might impact the actual on-field product. Will not be surprised if it gets changed again next year.

2/3 means you see the bad teams included because of the bloated playoffs longer than necessary. Going straight to penalties is also making compromises for having a 2/3. Like ligaMX does, lower seed needs to win outright.

Intensity has so far been less than last year's playoffs. Teams who fell behind match 1 by 2 goals have generally quickly given up. 

Two-legs format for every round actually gets Apple more inventory. With match 3 not guaranteed, the number of matches is between 25-33. 

Win in 2, add in international break, team has 3 weeks off. 

Edited November 2, 2023 by red card

[SthMelbRed]

51 minutes ago, red card said:

Traditional for US sports but 2 out of 3 is without precedent in soccer. Given MLS/Apple touts Season Pass a providing global exposure, they put in a format that are culturally abnormal in global football.

The general view so far is thumbs down on the format. Issues cited are the great goals or best moments in matchday 1 don't matter much since there is no aggregate score or puts a team out of it. 

Matchday 2 scheduling is way too after matchday 1 for events of match 1 to make an impact on what comes next. One series match 2 is 11 days after match 1. Only 1 series is less than 7 days apart. They also don't have matches everyday like other sports who have series. This type of pacing basically neutralizes the entertainment value/narratives of 2/3 series you see in other sports. 

It reinforces the long standing view of coaches/players that MLS has too many days off. Some have noted the distinct lack of enthusiasm in some places along with lots of empty seats. The first couple of weeks of the season, CCL & Leagues Cup felt like more of playoff atmosphere. Maybe vibe changes with risk of elimination in matchday 2. 

MLS was so focused on expanding the inventory that it didn’t put enough thought into how the new format might impact the actual on-field product. Will not be surprised if it gets changed again next year.

2/3 means you see the bad teams included because of the bloated playoffs longer than necessary. Going straight to penalties is also making compromises for having a 2/3. Like ligaMX does, lower seed needs to win outright.

Intensity has so far been less than last year's playoffs. Teams who fell behind match 1 by 2 goals have generally quickly given up. 

Two-legs format for every round actually gets Apple more inventory. With match 3 not guaranteed, the number of matches is between 25-33. 

Win in 2, add in international break, team has 3 weeks off. 

It's certainly not the norm, but it's not entirely without precedent. The old NASL did something similar, but the '3rd leg' was played as a shortened 'mini match' straight after the end of the second leg.

[SthMelbRed]

2 hours ago, SoccMan said:

So you have tickets for your home team for the second game of an aggregate two game series , your team just got blown out 4-0 in the first game of an aggregate two game series , your team now has a 4-0 deficit to overcome , good luck with that might as well stay home now because the chances of your team overcoming that deficit are next to nil it’s basically over before the whistle blows in the return leg. In  a non aggregate two out of three a team is always in it no matter the score in that first game . 

[costarg]

9 hours ago, red card said:

Traditional for US sports but 2 out of 3 is without precedent in soccer. Given MLS/Apple touts Season Pass a providing global exposure, they put in a format that are culturally abnormal in global football.

The general view so far is thumbs down on the format. Issues cited are the great goals or best moments in matchday 1 don't matter much since there is no aggregate score or puts a team out of it. 

Matchday 2 scheduling is way too after matchday 1 for events of match 1 to make an impact on what comes next. One series match 2 is 11 days after match 1. Only 1 series is less than 7 days apart. They also don't have matches everyday like other sports who have series. This type of pacing basically neutralizes the entertainment value/narratives of 2/3 series you see in other sports. 

It reinforces the long standing view of coaches/players that MLS has too many days off. Some have noted the distinct lack of enthusiasm in some places along with lots of empty seats. The first couple of weeks of the season, CCL & Leagues Cup felt like more of playoff atmosphere. Maybe vibe changes with risk of elimination in matchday 2. 

MLS was so focused on expanding the inventory that it didn’t put enough thought into how the new format might impact the actual on-field product. Will not be surprised if it gets changed again next year.

2/3 means you see the bad teams included because of the bloated playoffs longer than necessary. Going straight to penalties is also making compromises for having a 2/3. Like ligaMX does, lower seed needs to win outright.

Intensity has so far been less than last year's playoffs. Teams who fell behind match 1 by 2 goals have generally quickly given up. 

Two-legs format for every round actually gets Apple more inventory. With match 3 not guaranteed, the number of matches is between 25-33. 

Win in 2, add in international break, team has 3 weeks off. 

MLS & Apple focusing too much on marketing techniques rather than the actual on-field product selling itself.  It feels and smells artificial.  Unfortunate but they've gone backwards and are trying to reinvent soccer like they were with their breakaway penalties.  The schedule does not engage the fans and some of the stadium situations are ridiculous.

[SoccMan]

23 minutes ago, costarg said:

MLS & Apple focusing too much on marketing techniques rather than the actual on-field product selling itself.  It feels and smells artificial.  Unfortunate but they've gone backwards and are trying to reinvent soccer like they were with their breakaway penalties.  The schedule does not engage the fans and some of the stadium situations are ridiculous.

Most of the teams have their own stadiums complaining about a few that don’t is really stretching it , vast majority with their own stadiums and even NYFC will have one soon . If some  one had told  me when the league started , that so many would have their own soccer specific stadiums I would have never believed it but vast majority do now . Moreover , vast majority of those are built the right way not like BMO where they could not renovate the proper way because of CFL end zones so you have another mistake by the lake stadium on our hands .

Edited November 2, 2023 by SoccMan

[BearcatSA]

8 hours ago, costarg said:

MLS & Apple focusing too much on marketing techniques rather than the actual on-field product selling itself.  It feels and smells artificial.  Unfortunate but they've gone backwards and are trying to reinvent soccer like they were with their breakaway penalties.  The schedule does not engage the fans and some of the stadium situations are ridiculous.

They're still addicted to the cult of the "big name" (Beckham, and now the god Messi leading Miami like Pelé led the Cosmos) but I guess that's how major league pro sports in the US and Canada are currently driven.  

(As an aside, I actually really liked the old NASL shootout, going forward from 35 yards out to score within 5 seconds.)

[costarg]

11 hours ago, SoccMan said:

Most of the teams have their own stadiums complaining about a few that don’t is really stretching it , vast majority with their own stadiums and even NYFC will have one soon . If some  one had told  me when the league started , that so many would have their own soccer specific stadiums I would have never believed it but vast majority do now . Moreover , vast majority of those are built the right way not like BMO where they could not renovate the proper way because of CFL end zones so you have another mistake by the lake stadium on our hands .

You are right in the sense that most teams have done great and have great SSS.  However, I just can't digest the NYFC fiasco.  The fact that NYFC has played actual seasons at Yankee stadium never mind a few games, is beyond ridiculous.  That should never have been allowed to happen, and would never have happened in other leagues.  The market and the money let it happen.  That is where MLS gets it wrong, its just about marketing and money.

 

[Watchmen]

2 hours ago, costarg said:

You are right in the sense that most teams have done great and have great SSS.  However, I just can't digest the NYFC fiasco.  The fact that NYFC has played actual seasons at Yankee stadium never mind a few games, is beyond ridiculous.  That should never have been allowed to happen, and would never have happened in other leagues.  The market and the money let it happen.  That is where MLS gets it wrong, its just about marketing and money.

 

It has happened in other leagues.

Your previous home of the Tampa Bay Lightning: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tropicana_Field

[costarg]

9 hours ago, Watchmen said:

It has happened in other leagues.

Your previous home of the Tampa Bay Lightning: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tropicana_Field

That is not even close to the same issue.  A hockey rink fits inside a baseball field, and the reason they played there was the previous temporary arena proved to be too small after a season.  Their real arena was already under construction, they knew it was temporary.  NYFC has been playing at Yankee stadium for years and had no land or plan for a stadium of their own until recently.

My eyeballs bleed and never managed to actually watch a full soccer game at played at Yankee stadium.  The size of the field completely changes the game.

[Watchmen]

2 hours ago, costarg said:

That is not even close to the same issue.  A hockey rink fits inside a baseball field, and the reason they played there was the previous temporary arena proved to be too small after a season.  Their real arena was already under construction, they knew it was temporary.  NYFC has been playing at Yankee stadium for years and had no land or plan for a stadium of their own until recently.

My eyeballs bleed and never managed to actually watch a full soccer game at played at Yankee stadium.  The size of the field completely changes the game.

Hockey doesn't really fit in a baseball or football stadium. The angles are off and it's not a great viewing experience, and you can see that every year at any "Winter Classic" where it's the novelty of it rather than the viewing experience that draws people in.

But if you want other examples of "bad stadiums" you can check out when the Islanders moved to Brooklyn and a significant number of seats couldn't even see 1/3rd of the ice. And that was intended to be their permanent home when they moved.

NYCFC has always planned to build their own stadium. I just think everyone involved in it (both the club and MLS) badly underestimated how long it would take to get that done.

[BearcatSA]

On 11/1/2023 at 8:09 PM, red card said:

Win in 2, add in international break, team has 3 weeks off. 

A longer, bye layoff was a killer a couple of years ago for the regular season conference champions (NER and Colorado), both going down in their first playoff match.

They'll be changing the format again next season, I am sure, especially if two lower seeded, unfancied sides get to the final and the viewing numbers drop.

[An Observer]

On 11/3/2023 at 11:27 PM, Watchmen said:

Hockey doesn't really fit in a baseball or football stadium. The angles are off and it's not a great viewing experience, and you can see that every year at any "Winter Classic" where it's the novelty of it rather than the viewing experience that draws people in.

But if you want other examples of "bad stadiums" you can check out when the Islanders moved to Brooklyn and a significant number of seats couldn't even see 1/3rd of the ice. And that was intended to be their permanent home when they moved.

NYCFC has always planned to build their own stadium. I just think everyone involved in it (both the club and MLS) badly underestimated how long it would take to get that done.

I went to Islanders game in Brooklyn.  I quite liked the atmosphere and the location is great.  But as you said, it didn’t work due to the limited attendance and the number of seats that were obstructed.  I would like to go back to see a basketball game there as that is what it was designed for.

ps. I didn’t have an obstructed seat.

[narduch]

Red Bulls currently leading Cincinnati 1-0 in the 2nd half. Looking to send this to a 3rd game

[narduch]

Cincinnati eliminate NYRB after winning a penalty shoot out.

[Watchmen]

1 minute ago, narduch said:

Cincinnati eliminate NYRB after winning a penalty shoot out.

NY with two opportunities to win it too.

[Gian-Luca]

So if NYRB had won the shootout, would they have been forced to win the third match in 90 minutes or could they have advanced with another draw plus shootout win? 

[narduch]

Just now, Gian-Luca said:

So if NYRB had won the shootout, would they have been forced to win the third match in 90 minutes or could they have advanced with another draw plus shootout win? 

Yes they could have advanced with a shoot out win 

[Gian-Luca]

Just now, narduch said:

Yes they could have advanced with a shoot out win 

Thanks. That is going to mean in theory that teams with two draws and a loss and a negative goal differential over three matches will advance over a team with a win and two draws and a positive goal differential. Which is not how I would have drawn up the rules if I was going to three legs. 

[Watchmen]

Dallas wins 3-1 over Seattle.  Series tied and heading back to Seattle.