CONCACAF U20 qualifying (for the cycle ending in 2025) + preparation & news

[solsous]

6 minutes ago, SoccMan said:

The fact that a player that is basically Mexican and not a product of the Canadian youth soccer system Lopez , is the one player  that really stood out is troubling here in 2024 . When we start producing players of this Mexican players ability not one but many and each age group be it U17 or 20 is the time when we will consistently start qualifying for these tournaments.

Let’s be real, Lopez was not the only standout.

[narduch]

2 minutes ago, solsous said:

I was pleasantly surprised by the players reactions at the end of the game.  Most of them were devastated by the loss.  Unfortunately, their play on the pitch didn’t match the emotions of missing out on the U 20 World Cup.

Let's not forget that we were robbed by the ref too.

Everybody is busy litigating what is wrong with Canada soccer but we were under a major disadvantage last night too.

[Ansem]

29 minutes ago, Soccerpro2 said:

I've beat this drum before, but I'll do it again now. The CPL was supposed to be the be shift that our u20 team needed to improve.

You're letting off the hook too easily MLS with over 16 years of being here with no results while CPL is 6 years old with the U21 minutes rules

 

29 minutes ago, Soccerpro2 said:

We have 4 players from the CPL on the team for this qualifying tournament. Here are their minutes so far this season for their CPL clubs:

-Tavio Ciccarelli - 0 minutes for HX Wanderers
-James Cameron - lost his starting spot from last year and has about 400 minutes in 8 appearances his year.
-Khadim Kane 7 appearances totaling 39 minutes (He played 519 mins last year)
-Christian Greco-Taylor 4 appearances for 110 mins.

Where is this going wrong????? Because for all the focus on youth that the CPL likes to talk about, I'm hard pressed to see any progress at a pretty important age group.

They still have to "earn" their minutes and our Central American rivals have the same expectations than just handing them over the minutes, we still provide a minimum requirement of minutes. The key will be at League 1 Canada level as it expands and recalibrates but the better question is why League 1 Canada is being completely ignored here from the selection process?

29 minutes ago, Soccerpro2 said:

MLS was a step too high, MLS2 was called a reserve league often played in front of small crowds with no pressure. CPL was supposed to be a middle ground where the young Canadian player could get real minutes at a decent level in a pro atmosphere with pressure. Yet our team is dominated by TFC2 and Whitecaps2 players.

We shouldn't be relying only on MLS2 to begin with. How many of our best talent came from League 1 and flew under the radar until they got drafted to MLS? We have talent in our League 1s - why aren't we selecting from there too?

As for CPL, players still have to earn their minutes in a competitive environment against men, pros, vets etc... That's way harder than MLS2. Our regional rivals hold their youth to the same standards and you can tell on the pitch that they have that little extra + depth that we lack. CPL was never going to be the place just "handing over minutes", but a place giving you the opportunity to fight harder, work harder and compete to earn those minutes - which did not exist. If you don't put them in that environment, they aren't going to keep improving and push their limits. They might not have "earned" those minutes yet but they are training just as hard as the vets/pros - that's massive and no one will make me believe that MLS Next provides that and it shows on the pitch

29 minutes ago, Soccerpro2 said:

My local team (Valour FC) are hot garbage, in last place and have not a single u20 eligible player on their roster.

They are at a disadvantage by having no League 1 and I don't know how the USport picture is in Manitoba but it will take them a while to be able to rely on a stream comparable to the other established provinces

29 minutes ago, Soccerpro2 said:

Why don't we have a pool of players good enough to see decent minutes in the CPL as 18 or 19 year olds?

They have to earn it - the goal should be for League 1s to be structured like Ontario's pro/rel and for the best U20 to make it to Premier Division and excel. Sure you have some on CPL squads but that's a very high step for them.

Again, our focus should be for the CSA, League 1 Canada and CPL to streamline the pathway and leave the MLS clubs out of that discussion like Jon Conway was saying on Onesoccer. We have nearly 16 years of track-record showing us that MLS academy heavy squads aren't going to cut it at U20 level in this region.

As for CPL, they will have a much greater impact at the U23 level in the short term. Once League 1 Canada is sorted, players should start to be selected from there and we should be noticing an improvement

Edited July 31 by Ansem

[Watchmen]

9 minutes ago, narduch said:

But you can basically ask the same thing for the 3 MLS clubs too.

Certainly, though there's a difference between "getting players on to the team and them not being good enough (MLS's issue) and "not getting players on to the team and the ones that do aren't good enough (CPL's issue).

[CanadaFan123]

You also have to question squad selection though. How can the one player who has played and scored in the premier club competition in the region be left off the squad? Add in that he was great in February with the team and it makes no sense. 

[narduch]

Don't forget we were also missing possibly our best player at this level, LDF. To allow him to have a summer break.

[Obinna]

My two cents:

I haven't really been following too closely, watching the odd highlight, but decided to fire up Fubo to see part of this game against Panama. Only watched the 2nd half, and not really that intently, but it was clear to me right away that Panama had a better team. They looked more like a team and more mature. They made mistakes, but not to the extent we did. They seemed more polished overall.

Never had faith we'd win, even when we tied it up. They looked more like a team deserving of the World Cup than we did. 

Again, never watched much of this team, just basing it on what I saw last night. Had we found a way to advance it would have been an upset. 

Not sure how much that's down to the coach, the player selection, the tactics, etc., but it's probably safe to assume we need to start selecting players with more pro experience. Seems pretty obvious.

Too often we have guys just breaking through in MLS, guys with single digit 1st team apperances, going against guys with 50, 60 or 70 first team apperances in the Panama league, the Honduran league, etc. We'd be better off picking guys from CPL with a similar level of experience, assuming we have those players. I know we have a few, but do we have a full teams worth? 

Finally, let me just point out that picking players barely playing 1st team in MLS is just as bad as picking guys in Europe who are basically academy players.

Also, we can't generalize too much, since our best player (Lopez) has only played like 2 Liga MX games, but if we have a team full of inexperienced guys it's gonna show. 

Edited July 31 by Obinna

[Sal333]

4 hours ago, DigzTFC said:

 

• I wish we would learn from other federations to see what they are doing to improve ourselves

I think Herdman and Preistman tried that and FIFA & the IOC disapproved.

Edited July 31 by Sal333

[Aird25]

On 7/31/2024 at 10:13 AM, Soccerpro2 said:

I've beat this drum before, but I'll do it again now. The CPL was supposed to be the be shift that our u20 team needed to improve.

We have 4 players from the CPL on the team for this qualifying tournament. Here are their minutes so far this season for their CPL clubs:

-Tavio Ciccarelli - 0 minutes for HX Wanderers
-James Cameron - lost his starting spot from last year and has about 400 minutes in 8 appearances his year.
-Khadim Kane 7 appearances totaling 39 minutes (He played 519 mins last year)
-Christian Greco-Taylor 4 appearances for 110 mins.

Where is this going wrong????? Because for all the focus on youth that the CPL likes to talk about, I'm hard pressed to see any progress at a pretty important age group. MLS was a step too high, MLS2 was called a reserve league often played in front of small crowds with no pressure. CPL was supposed to be a middle ground where the young Canadian player could get real minutes at a decent level in a pro atmosphere with pressure. Yet our team is dominated by TFC2 and Whitecaps2 players.

My local team (Valour FC) are hot garbage, in last place and have not a single u20 eligible player on their roster.

Why don't we have a pool of players good enough to see decent minutes in the CPL as 18 or 19 year olds?

From a Pacific, or Greco-Taylor perspective, he's a mile behind Lajeunesse, who isn't much older, and Mukumbilwa. If he was good enough, we'd have a spot for him in the first XI. He's not

Edited August 1 by Aird25

[rkomar]

56 minutes ago, CanadaFan123 said:

You also have to question squad selection though. How can the one player who has played and scored in the premier club competition in the region be left off the squad? Add in that he was great in February with the team and it makes no sense. 

The point of these UXX competitions is to give experience of high pressure to young players and also to see how they cope.  I'm pretty sure that once a player makes it to the senior squad, the CSA does not put them back because they already know they can succeed at that level.  The spots are used for players that would benefit more.

[Watchmen]

It's sort of fascinating to watch people here give the CPL such a free pass on player development.  "But it's only been 6 years" to me is not an excuse, considering the players in this tournament are all under 20 and the CPL sides have had ample time to contribute more to that age range. If you're excuse is "the players have to earn their minutes", that's fine too, but then don't apply a double standard to the MLS sides for doing that as well.

[Mihairokov]

Six years is not enough time for a development window to pass to gauge any sort of impact on CPL and younger players. Usually these windows are a decade plus and even then hindsight can be a bit murky depending on the situation. I saw players on this team with CPL experience who looked good and strong on the ball and i'm sure at this tournament in six years time there will be even more and they'll be even better, but it's far too early to cast judgment on whether the league is succeeding in this category or not, especially considering half of those six years was COVID.

[eramosat]

Canada did very well to even advance to the knock-outs.  It's an accomplishment for this squad.

They definitely looked out-performed for lengthy periods in a few games, including last night.  With occasional insightful play, which is what success at this level demands.

The red last night was unfortunate, but not completely unreasonable.  Live and die by the red card, Canada cannot complain overly.

As for the dark arts employed against Canada?  Nothing too abnormal.  Individual incidents notwithstanding, this is definitely par for the course for an elite Canada player in their federation, so...this is high-level football facing you.

I have no idea about development infrastructure points.  Just hoping for trickle-down effects from the top, if funding from the Government continues, and FIFA, or whatever authority, doesn't suspend too many Canadian efforts going forward.

Talk about a pile-on, this latest CSA problem is approaching "Am I on candid camera?!" levels for anyone in the program, player, coach, executive.  Can you imagine working in this environment, waking up and facing it?  Insane additional stress and pressure, above your normal day job.

[Watchmen]

36 minutes ago, Mihairokov said:

Six years is not enough time for a development window to pass to gauge any sort of impact on CPL and younger players. Usually these windows are a decade plus and even then hindsight can be a bit murky depending on the situation.

Why? Especially considering the CPL has a specific mandate to play players in this age range. Further, if the time frame is "a decade and a half" then 2 of the 3 MLS clubs can't really be judged yet.

[Mihairokov]

10 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

Why? Especially considering the CPL has a specific mandate to play players in this age range.

Typically when clubs create youth teams they're not going to have an immediate impact on the players that are already 14/15/16 years old. So much of sport development is fostered and generated in ages younger than that. What that means is that they'll have most effect in their early days of being a club academy at capturing players at younger ages and training them for longer. Once that first batch is 18/19/20 and playing professional then we can begin to say how academies are really, truly doing.

For example, Forge can't take a 16 year old and make them a world-beater tomorrow, but they can take a much younger player and develop them for a much longer period. When that player is 18 or 19 is a better indicator than when the first player is.

I understand that CPL teams don't have a lot of academies in this way, but by partnering with local clubs and creating more spaces to play, along with opening more spaces at lower levels, it has somewhat of the same effect if you believe in trickle-down development like this.

 

10 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

Further, if the time frame is "a decade and a half" then 2 of the 3 MLS clubs can't really be judged yet.

Probably, yes. Compare the players CFM are churning out now compared to 2014 or 2016.

Edited July 31 by Mihairokov

[74 Whitecap]

Mexico - Costa Rica game is showing that it is not just Canada that can get frustrated with the ref in a U20 q-final as the Costa Rican manager gets a Red Card and then charges onto the pitch at the ref before being intercepted by the linesman and 4th official. 

On the pitch, Mexico conceded a comically bad goal in the 1st half but otherwise Costa Rica has hardly been over half all game  (Andy Rojas their only player of note, as far as I can see) and Mexico is deservedly ahead 2-1 in the final minutes despite not being super impressive in the final third.

 

[Dominic94]

7 hours ago, Soccerpro2 said:

I've beat this drum before, but I'll do it again now. The CPL was supposed to be the be shift that our u20 team needed to improve.

We have 4 players from the CPL on the team for this qualifying tournament. Here are their minutes so far this season for their CPL clubs:

-Tavio Ciccarelli - 0 minutes for HX Wanderers
-James Cameron - lost his starting spot from last year and has about 400 minutes in 8 appearances his year.
-Khadim Kane 7 appearances totaling 39 minutes (He played 519 mins last year)
-Christian Greco-Taylor 4 appearances for 110 mins.

Where is this going wrong????? Because for all the focus on youth that the CPL likes to talk about, I'm hard pressed to see any progress at a pretty important age group. MLS was a step too high, MLS2 was called a reserve league often played in front of small crowds with no pressure. CPL was supposed to be a middle ground where the young Canadian player could get real minutes at a decent level in a pro atmosphere with pressure. Yet our team is dominated by TFC2 and Whitecaps2 players.

My local team (Valour FC) are hot garbage, in last place and have not a single u20 eligible player on their roster.

Why don't we have a pool of players good enough to see decent minutes in the CPL as 18 or 19 year olds?

Didn’t Vancouver improve massively ? 
 

not sure why Tahid and Tavernier didn’t get picked.

 

it won’t be until next cycle that the CPL starts to dominate the rosters, this takes time. The breakthrough is already evident and will continue to be larger. 
 

As they expand more players will be found. Don’t forget there’s still internal pushback at the head office and some of these kids are getting shafted.

[Watchmen]

1 hour ago, Dominic94 said:

Didn’t Vancouver improve massively ? 
 

not sure why Tahid and Tavernier didn’t get picked.

 

it won’t be until next cycle that the CPL starts to dominate the rosters, this takes time. The breakthrough is already evident and will continue to be larger. 
 

As they expand more players will be found. Don’t forget there’s still internal pushback at the head office and some of these kids are getting shafted.

Tahid essentially isn't playing for Vancouver. 

Edited August 1 by Watchmen

[Mihairokov]

30 minutes ago, 74 Whitecap said:

Mexico - Costa Rica game is showing that it is not just Canada that can get frustrated with the ref in a U20 q-final as the Costa Rican manager gets a Red Card and then charges onto the pitch at the ref before being intercepted by the linesman and 4th official. 

On the pitch, Mexico conceded a comically bad goal in the 1st half but otherwise Costa Rica has hardly been over half all game  (Andy Rojas their only player of note, as far as I can see) and Mexico is deservedly ahead 2-1 in the final minutes despite not being super impressive in the final third.

 

The only team that beat us was minutes away from beating Mexico. I'll take this sort of result over what we've accomplished in this tournament over the past two decades.

[74 Whitecap]

Honduras loses a shootout to Cuba, I can hardly contain my sadness. Oh, did I say sadness, I meant laughter, 😄😁😆🤣😂🤪🤩

[Dominic94]

10 hours ago, Mihairokov said:

Typically when clubs create youth teams they're not going to have an immediate impact on the players that are already 14/15/16 years old. So much of sport development is fostered and generated in ages younger than that. What that means is that they'll have most effect in their early days of being a club academy at capturing players at younger ages and training them for longer. Once that first batch is 18/19/20 and playing professional then we can begin to say how academies are really, truly doing.

For example, Forge can't take a 16 year old and make them a world-beater tomorrow, but they can take a much younger player and develop them for a much longer period. When that player is 18 or 19 is a better indicator than when the first player is.

I understand that CPL teams don't have a lot of academies in this way, but by partnering with local clubs and creating more spaces to play, along with opening more spaces at lower levels, it has somewhat of the same effect if you believe in trickle-down development like this.

 

Probably, yes. Compare the players CFM are churning out now compared to 2014 or 2016.

This is very well said, it’s curious that almost all of our MNT born after 2000 did some time with an MLS team and you can see the impact the expansion had long term on the program. Their academy kids after 2000 are still a cut above.

The current CPL group is trickling in results, we’re going to start to see those shoot up.

Tahid, Grady, the kid from York, eventually one is going to be something, but yes it’s true that most won’t. There’s only going to be more.

[blueseeka]

Looks like Schilte Brown made the bench today in their Europa qualifiers

[narduch]

3 hours ago, blueseeka said:

Looks like Schilte Brown made the bench today in their Europa qualifiers

Someone needs to tell Fotmob to get with the program.

[gigi riva]

On 7/31/2024 at 1:39 PM, Ansem said:

You're letting off the hook too easily MLS with over 16 years of being here with no results while CPL is 6 years old with the U21 minutes rules

 

They still have to "earn" their minutes and our Central American rivals have the same expectations than just handing them over the minutes, we still provide a minimum requirement of minutes. The key will be at League 1 Canada level as it expands and recalibrates but the better question is why League 1 Canada is being completely ignored here from the selection process?

We shouldn't be relying only on MLS2 to begin with. How many of our best talent came from League 1 and flew under the radar until they got drafted to MLS? We have talent in our League 1s - why aren't we selecting from there too?

As for CPL, players still have to earn their minutes in a competitive environment against men, pros, vets etc... That's way harder than MLS2. Our regional rivals hold their youth to the same standards and you can tell on the pitch that they have that little extra + depth that we lack. CPL was never going to be the place just "handing over minutes", but a place giving you the opportunity to fight harder, work harder and compete to earn those minutes - which did not exist. If you don't put them in that environment, they aren't going to keep improving and push their limits. They might not have "earned" those minutes yet but they are training just as hard as the vets/pros - that's massive and no one will make me believe that MLS Next provides that and it shows on the pitch

They are at a disadvantage by having no League 1 and I don't know how the USport picture is in Manitoba but it will take them a while to be able to rely on a stream comparable to the other established provinces

They have to earn it - the goal should be for League 1s to be structured like Ontario's pro/rel and for the best U20 to make it to Premier Division and excel. Sure you have some on CPL squads but that's a very high step for them.

Again, our focus should be for the CSA, League 1 Canada and CPL to streamline the pathway and leave the MLS clubs out of that discussion like Jon Conway was saying on Onesoccer. We have nearly 16 years of track-record showing us that MLS academy heavy squads aren't going to cut it at U20 level in this region.

As for CPL, they will have a much greater impact at the U23 level in the short term. Once League 1 Canada is sorted, players should start to be selected from there and we should be noticing an improvement

Amen Brother 

[Mihairokov]

On 8/1/2024 at 5:07 AM, Dominic94 said:

The current CPL group is trickling in results, we’re going to start to see those shoot up.

Tahid, Grady, the kid from York, eventually one is going to be something, but yes it’s true that most won’t. There’s only going to be more.

We've already seen players make the jump from CPL -> MLS, only a matter of time until there's a player who makes the jump from being a U18 in CPL -> MLS or elsewhere. Once the system exists for long enough and once it shows its worth will it become a more obvious pipeline. It's imperative that CPL teams cash in on this chance when it comes.

Edited August 2 by Mihairokov