CONCACAF U20 qualifying (for the cycle ending in 2025) + preparation & news

[CanadaFan123]

Maybe the CSA wants to keep Olivieri in charge to save money? He never fails to miss a tournament. 
 

I fell asleep after the first half but saw Morgan miss yet another cross. By my count that was 3 clear cut chances where he failed to connect to a cross in this tournament. 

[Soccerpro2]

Lopez is the only player on the team that seized the opportunity and stood out. Every other player was a pedestrian throughout the tournament.

The reffing decision was atrocious last night but it was mostly one way traffic from Panama at that point and the penalty/red card was a result of yet another giveaway.

Last night continued a theme of previous u20 teams where the players look overwhelmed on the big occasion. We consistently were unable to complete basic passes last night and had no meaningful combination play in the opposition half. It was shocking from pretty much anyone not named Lopez and certainly disappointing from any player with MLS experience in the squad.

Edited July 31 by Soccerpro2

[DigzTFC]

On Oliveiri:

• I absolutely hated how much space was between our lines and we were easily cut up in the midfield.
• Morgan was done at the 75th minute and I think he asked multiple times for a substitution.
• Bottomline, he did nothing to do to keep his job.  He's been in the job for 6 years and accomplished nothing and has hurt player's careers by not getting them into tournaments where scouts exist.
• I also assume the appearance fees are available at the World Cup U20 level too so there also being a financial drain on the program.

On the Game Between the Players:

• Panama were better and Mosquera was a beast and by far the best player on the pitch
• I have a lot of respect for Panama as they have a population of 4 million and perform like that
• I wish we would learn from other federations to see what they are doing to improve ourselves
• Pearlman's distribution was terrible again and he was completely unprofessional with the official.
• Morgan was great in the air and down the wing but he's going to have a tough time sticking at striker
• Lopez was great but the fact the he needs to be substituted off is an indictment on his fitness
• I really appreciated what James Cameron brought and thought he should of rolled around when the Panama player threw an elbow at him. It really is the only way we can balance out the officiating
• Greco Taylor reminds me Alistair Johnston.  Unbelievable grit.
• Kamani Stewart Baynes needs to find a way to get on the field with Colorado.  He was such a non-factor in the game that I'm unclear how he was signed to a generation addidas contract.
• Badwal was smart to draw some fouls but didn't really do anything of note going forward.
• Biello didn't really do anything of note except yell at the official.
• Swiderski was our best player, again, which is an indictment on the team that he has to be.
• When I saw that Diallo was an Inter Milan youth player, I was excited to see what kid had.  I didn't see anything out of him that would suggest a prestigious pedigree.

On the Official

• Pearlman did himself no favours and Olivieri should have pulled him aside
• The fact that no card was given to the Panama coach for throwing a water bottle on the field set the stage for a lot of "injustice".  I use "injustice" because the referree was not wrong to do anything he did but it was the lack of balance to both teams
• The Panama elbow to Cameron should have been reviewed by VAR but Cameron got up to quickly to slug the guy.
• I don't know how many times Greco Taylor was run through but he was the one who recieved the yellow cards. 
• The penalty was a borderline penalty because of the dragging foot and the red card was terrible.  That is the worst call in soccer to award and penalty and a red.  I do not know why that's even possible within the rules as it awards the game over at that moment.  I'm sure there is statistical evidence that would prove that thesis but I'm lazy.
• Playing down a man for nearly 60 minutes and awarding the penalty broke the game
• The worst offense the official did was not review the last play and instead of calming the situation down by simply walking over and looking at it.  He chose to stick it to us and award a straight red to someone on the bench.  If there were fans in the stands it could have got really ugly. 
• The official spent more time wasting then the Panamanians and he allowed for all the Panamanian time wasting.  Just really poor amateur quality petty officiating.  Both linesmen were in on it too because they had enough talk out of the Canadian players. 

-

 

 

 

[A Different Perspective]

On Olivieri it’s interesting to try and figure out how he got the job let alone keeping it.  According to Wiki he has one head coach job where he finished 6th.  Sorry but that and the results is not good enough.  
 

Despite its own issues Hockey Canada at least rotates and brings in its best and accomplished coaches to run its successful World Junior U20 program while the coaches keep their existing club jobs as they work with Hockey Canada support staff.  It would be  an easy fix to bring in the likes successful coaches that have worked developing our younger talent - why not cut Olivieri and bring in Bobby Smyrniotis, Thomas Wheeldon Jr and CS Laurent coach Nicolas Razzaghi to run the next rotation.  The U17 and U20 programs deserve top notch coaches who have had success as well as creating an environment to reward and recognize other young coaches to further develop their profile and expertise.   It’s time to understand the important role of coaching development and create a winning, accountable and yes ethical environment. 

[DigzTFC]

2 minutes ago, A Different Perspective said:

On Olivieri it’s interesting to try and figure out how he got the job let alone keeping it.  According to Wiki he has one head coach job where he finished 6th.  Sorry but that and the results is not good enough.  
 

Despite its own issues Hockey Canada at least rotates and brings in its best and accomplished coaches to run its successful World Junior U20 program while the coaches keep their existing club jobs as they work with Hockey Canada support staff.  It would be  an easy fix to bring in the likes successful coaches that have worked developing our younger talent - why not cut Olivieri and bring in Bobby Smyrniotis, Thomas Wheeldon Jr and CS Laurent coach Nicolas Razzaghi to run the next rotation.  The U17 and U20 programs deserve top notch coaches who have had success as well as creating an environment to reward and recognize other young coaches to further develop their profile and expertise.   It’s time to understand the important role of coaching development and create a winning, accountable and yes ethical environment. 

This is an awesome idea!!!!! It would also be unique in world football

[narduch]

They probably just let Olivieri finish out the cycle.

I'm guessing Marsch ends up installing his own guy now. He just started the job and didn't have time to deal with this. The U17 tournament has been made yearly so they will have to make a decision soon.

This job would be a step backwards for guys like Smyrniotis and Wheeldon.

 

[A Different Perspective]

4 minutes ago, narduch said:

They probably just let Olivieri finish out the cycle.

I'm guessing Marsch ends up installing his own guy now. He just started the job and didn't have time to deal with this. The U17 tournament has been made yearly so they will have to make a decision soon.

This job would be a step backwards for guys like Smyrniotis and Wheeldon.

 

Disagree strongly that subject is a step backwards for Smyrniotis or Wheeldon if they keep their CPL jobs as highlighted in rationale.  I actually think they would relish the opportunity to put their stamp on Canada Soccer program. 

[narduch]

4 minutes ago, A Different Perspective said:

Disagree strongly that subject is a step backwards for Smyrniotis or Wheeldon if they keep their CPL jobs as highlighted in rationale.  I actually think they would relish the opportunity to put their stamp on Canada Soccer program. 

So they're supposed to just up and leave their CPL teams for 1-2 months during the season and then coach the U20 team? Nobody does this.

The hockey example uses out of work coaches.

Edited July 31 by narduch

[74 Whitecap]

1 hour ago, DigzTFC said:

On Oliveiri:

• I absolutely hated how much space was between our lines and we were easily cut up in the midfield.
• ...
• I have a lot of respect for Panama as they have a population of 4 million and perform like that
• ...
• Lopez was great but the fact the he needs to be substituted off is an indictment on his fitness

 

 

 

Overall, I agree with almost all of this. The space between the lines was the most noticeable aspect for me, all through the tournament. I guess part of this is just the level of the players and their fitness, and perhaps our speed, or lack thereof on the back line, but I still felt we could have been tougher in the middle of the park with a different formation, and done a better job moving forward and backward as a team.

Still, lots of talk about the coach, but honestly, I think the result was about in line with the talent on the field, so hard to blame the coaching for too much here. All the same, I think Marsch will have a say going forward, and that it will be good to have a change, I think.

As for Lopez and his fitness, yes, it isn't there yet, but that is an easily solvable problem. I had considered posting that they should leave him on the bench to start and play 4-5-1 for the first 30 minutes, then bring him in at the 30 minute mark, once the game opened up, and so that he could be fit for extra time if needed, but didn't bother, since I knew they would never actually do anything that unconventional.

We were a bit unfortunate to match up with Panama after recording 7 points at group stage, as I watched many of the games and thought that the US and Panama were the two best teams at group stage. It will be interesting to see how they do against each other in the semi-final. It is hard to judge too much in comparing countries at this level, since teams tend to be missing at least some of their best players due to other commitments. 

 

[Ivan]

43 minutes ago, A Different Perspective said:

Disagree strongly that subject is a step backwards for Smyrniotis or Wheeldon if they keep their CPL jobs as highlighted in rationale.  I actually think they would relish the opportunity to put their stamp on Canada Soccer program. 

Rather than those two, I'd go Edgar and Ledgerwood.  They could probably do both jobs.

[narduch]

You could maybe give the job to Stalteri and still keep him as a CanMNT assistant 

[Kadenge]

Just watched the first half yesterday. I have no idea where the Panama squad play their soccer, if at domestic pro teams or academies, but in the first half we looked like an academy team playing a team of young pros. Someone posted that we haven't made the U20 WC in forever. That and how  our U20 teams have performed on the field  should be  a huge red flag re our youth development. We did not play well enough to win is an understatement. We look decent at U17s but it's the U20s where we struggle.  

[narduch]

15 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

Just watched the first half yesterday. I have no idea where the Panama squad play their soccer, if at domestic pro teams or academies, but in the first half we looked like an academy team playing a team of young pros. Someone posted that we haven't made the U20 WC in forever. That and how  our U20 teams have performed on the field  should be  a huge red flag re our youth development. We did not play well enough to win is an understatement. We look decent at U17s but it's the U20s where we struggle.  

According to Wikipedia their roster is mostly domestic 

[Ansem]

22 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

Just watched the first half yesterday. I have no idea where the Panama squad play their soccer, if at domestic pro teams or academies, but in the first half we looked like an academy team playing a team of young pros. Someone posted that we haven't made the U20 WC in forever. That and how  our U20 teams have performed on the field  should be  a huge red flag re our youth development. We did not play well enough to win is an understatement. We look decent at U17s but it's the U20s where we struggle.  

Panama

 

Canada

 

Results?

I'll leave it at that - I can't bother with those who will keep defending the status quo and clap at the usual influx of "oh oh MLS academy talents" when playing 1st club minute and being with the 1st club is way more important and you can tell espacially against Panama

But whatever - carry on

 

Edited July 31 by Ansem

[A Different Perspective]

1 hour ago, narduch said:

So they're supposed to just up and leave their CPL teams for 1-2 months during the season and then coach the U20 team? Nobody does this.

The hockey example uses out of work coaches.

They actually don’t use out of work coaches for the WJC U20 Championship - the Coaching Staff is made of active coaches across Canada.  Club teams benefit by the profile of their coaches involved in the process, they respect its bettering the International reputation of our Country, and the Club Assistant coaches man the bench while the head coach is away.  
 

That said I’m good with some ideas others have posted after.  Note - having the same ineffectual coach without a proven track record gets you the results we have gotten.

 As the soup nazi would say … NEXT!!!

[Dominic94]

It’s time for a change 

[Soccerpro2]

42 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Panama

 

Canada

 

Results?

I'll leave it at that - I can't bother with those who will keep defending the status quo and clap at the usual influx of "oh oh MLS academy talents" when playing 1st club minute and being with the 1st club is way more important and you can tell espacially against Panama

But whatever - carry on

 

I've beat this drum before, but I'll do it again now. The CPL was supposed to be the be shift that our u20 team needed to improve.

We have 4 players from the CPL on the team for this qualifying tournament. Here are their minutes so far this season for their CPL clubs:

-Tavio Ciccarelli - 0 minutes for HX Wanderers
-James Cameron - lost his starting spot from last year and has about 400 minutes in 8 appearances his year.
-Khadim Kane 7 appearances totaling 39 minutes (He played 519 mins last year)
-Christian Greco-Taylor 4 appearances for 110 mins.

Where is this going wrong????? Because for all the focus on youth that the CPL likes to talk about, I'm hard pressed to see any progress at a pretty important age group. MLS was a step too high, MLS2 was called a reserve league often played in front of small crowds with no pressure. CPL was supposed to be a middle ground where the young Canadian player could get real minutes at a decent level in a pro atmosphere with pressure. Yet our team is dominated by TFC2 and Whitecaps2 players.

My local team (Valour FC) are hot garbage, in last place and have not a single u20 eligible player on their roster.

Why don't we have a pool of players good enough to see decent minutes in the CPL as 18 or 19 year olds?

[Kadenge]

Never been a fan of Olivieri. Tactically he's been poor even with the U17s, although we have qualified for a few WCs at that age group. Not going to repeat what many have said. We do need a coach upgrade, but the fundamental issue is still youth development (scouting, coaching and opportunity to play pro mins) and we need to fix that asap.

[narduch]

1 minute ago, Soccerpro2 said:

I've beat this drum before, but I'll do it again now. The CPL was supposed to be the be shift that our u20 team needed to improve.

We have 4 players from the CPL on the team for this qualifying tournament. Here are their minutes so far this season for their CPL clubs:

-Tavio Ciccarelli - 0 minutes for HX Wanderers
-James Cameron - lost his starting spot from last year and has about 400 minutes in 8 appearances his year.
-Khadim Kane 7 appearances totaling 39 minutes (He played 519 mins last year)
-Christian Greco-Taylor 4 appearances for 110 mins.

Where is this going wrong????? Because for all the focus on youth that the CPL likes to talk about, I'm hard pressed to see any progress at a pretty important age group. MLS was a step too high, MLS2 was called a reserve league often played in front of small crowds with no pressure. CPL was supposed to be a middle ground where the young Canadian player could get real minutes at a decent level in a pro atmosphere with pressure. Yet our team is dominated by TFC2 and Whitecaps2 players.

My local team (Valour FC) are hot garbage, in last place and have not a single u20 eligible player on their roster.

Why don't we have a pool of players good enough to see decent minutes in the CPL as 18 or 19 year olds?

To be fair to Ciccarrelli, I don't think he was even allowed to play until the July transfer window opened.

HFX have barely played any U21 minutes. I expect we will see lots of Tavio down the stretch.

CPL already has mandated U21 minutes. Not sure what more people want them to do? Become a full youth league? That won't help either.

In my opinion what CPL needs the most is expansion. More teams mean more opportunities and more choices of players to select 

[solsous]

3 hours ago, DigzTFC said:

On Oliveiri:

• I absolutely hated how much space was between our lines and we were easily cut up in the midfield.
• Morgan was done at the 75th minute and I think he asked multiple times for a substitution.
• Bottomline, he did nothing to do to keep his job.  He's been in the job for 6 years and accomplished nothing and has hurt player's careers by not getting them into tournaments where scouts exist.
• I also assume the appearance fees are available at the World Cup U20 level too so there also being a financial drain on the program.

On the Game Between the Players:

• Panama were better and Mosquera was a beast and by far the best player on the pitch
• I have a lot of respect for Panama as they have a population of 4 million and perform like that
• I wish we would learn from other federations to see what they are doing to improve ourselves
• Pearlman's distribution was terrible again and he was completely unprofessional with the official.
• Morgan was great in the air and down the wing but he's going to have a tough time sticking at striker
• Lopez was great but the fact the he needs to be substituted off is an indictment on his fitness
• I really appreciated what James Cameron brought and thought he should of rolled around when the Panama player threw an elbow at him. It really is the only way we can balance out the officiating
• Greco Taylor reminds me Alistair Johnston.  Unbelievable grit.
• Kamani Stewart Baynes needs to find a way to get on the field with Colorado.  He was such a non-factor in the game that I'm unclear how he was signed to a generation addidas contract.
• Badwal was smart to draw some fouls but didn't really do anything of note going forward.
• Biello didn't really do anything of note except yell at the official.
• Swiderski was our best player, again, which is an indictment on the team that he has to be.
• When I saw that Diallo was an Inter Milan youth player, I was excited to see what kid had.  I didn't see anything out of him that would suggest a prestigious pedigree.

On the Official

• Pearlman did himself no favours and Olivieri should have pulled him aside
• The fact that no card was given to the Panama coach for throwing a water bottle on the field set the stage for a lot of "injustice".  I use "injustice" because the referree was not wrong to do anything he did but it was the lack of balance to both teams
• The Panama elbow to Cameron should have been reviewed by VAR but Cameron got up to quickly to slug the guy.
• I don't know how many times Greco Taylor was run through but he was the one who recieved the yellow cards. 
• The penalty was a borderline penalty because of the dragging foot and the red card was terrible.  That is the worst call in soccer to award and penalty and a red.  I do not know why that's even possible within the rules as it awards the game over at that moment.  I'm sure there is statistical evidence that would prove that thesis but I'm lazy.
• Playing down a man for nearly 60 minutes and awarding the penalty broke the game
• The worst offense the official did was not review the last play and instead of calming the situation down by simply walking over and looking at it.  He chose to stick it to us and award a straight red to someone on the bench.  If there were fans in the stands it could have got really ugly. 
• The official spent more time wasting then the Panamanians and he allowed for all the Panamanian time wasting.  Just really poor amateur quality petty officiating.  Both linesmen were in on it too because they had enough talk out of the Canadian players. 

-

 

 

 

Solid analysis.

[jonovision]

9 minutes ago, Soccerpro2 said:

My local team (Valour FC) are hot garbage, in last place and have not a single u20 eligible player on their roster.

Why don't we have a pool of players good enough to see decent minutes in the CPL as 18 or 19 year olds?

Correction: Valour are hot garbage and in 2nd last place!

[Watchmen]

2 minutes ago, narduch said:

CPL already has mandated U21 minutes. Not sure what more people want them to do? Become a full youth league? That won't help either.

I don't think @Soccerpro2 is questioning the mandate/u21 policy, I think he's wondering why it's not translating in to better results for the u20 team. 

[SoccMan]

The fact that a player that is basically Mexican and not a product of the Canadian youth soccer system Lopez , is the one player  that really stood out is troubling here in 2024 . When we start producing players of this Mexican players ability not one but many and each age group be it U17 or 20 is the time when we will consistently start qualifying for these tournaments.

Edited July 31 by SoccMan

[narduch]

8 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

I don't think @Soccerpro2 is questioning the mandate/u21 policy, I think he's wondering why it's not translating in to better results for the u20 team. 

But you can basically ask the same thing for the 3 MLS clubs too.

[solsous]

I was pleasantly surprised by the players reactions at the end of the game.  Most of them were devastated by the loss.  Unfortunately, their play on the pitch didn’t match the emotions of missing out on the U 20 World Cup.