CONCACAF U20 qualifying (for the cycle ending in 2025) + preparation & news

[El Diego]

54 minutes ago, Ivan said:

Are these players actually from DR or are they recruiting Spaniards with some DR heritage ? You know, kinda like the farcical Jamaican NT?

It is impressive if they are actually from DR though. 

I assumed (but didn't check) that they are a lot of dual nats. They could be the new Suriname (but decent?)

[Ed_S]

58 minutes ago, Ivan said:

Are these players actually from DR or are they recruiting Spaniards with some DR heritage ? You know, kinda like the farcical Jamaican NT?

It is impressive if they are actually from DR though. 

Don't agree with your description of the Jamaican NT one bit. 

[archer21]

51 minutes ago, Ed_S said:

Don't agree with your description of the Jamaican NT one bit. 

Which part? It's true that the majority of their squad were born outside of Jamaica. Not that I'm saying that's wrong or shouldn't be allowed, but I think its pretty factual other than the "farcical" comment.

[Ed_S]

Farcical was offensive.  We have had and do have players born outside Canada. 

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

23 hours ago, Olympique_de_Marseille said:

Greco misses the next match?

https://www.concacaf.com/en/under-20s-men/regulations/

Rule 23.12.5

Christian Greco-Taylor does indeed miss the next match against El Salvador due to yellow card accumulation.

https://www.concacaf.com/en/men-s-under-20/game-details?matchid=739942

https://www.concacaf.com/en/men-s-under-20/game-details?matchid=739943

[ahmedou]

July 23th: Goal of Tavio Ciccarelli (Canada U20 1-0 Dominican Republic U20) ⚽

July 24th: Tavio Ciccarelli's Birthday 🎂

[Ivan]

1 hour ago, Ed_S said:

Farcical was offensive.  We have had and do have players born outside Canada. 

Just my opinion Ed. I know many here don't agree and that's fine. We have, what, 1 guy (LDF) with very little time spent here? Probably more in the past like Bircham. 95 % of our team were born or raised here. We have lost more born and raised duals than we have.

75 % of that Jamaican team never stepped foot in Jamaica until they played soccer for them. I think that's a joke. As I do Surinam and Curacao.

[Ottawafan]

5 hours ago, Mihairokov said:

Irrelevant. The question is whether our development here can develop top talent comparable to Europe. CMNT right now is predominantly made up of players who developed and played their youth and U20 soccer in Canada/the US. Millar and Eustaquio are two of the only players to go to Europe before their mid-teens, along with Cornelius. 

The automatic assumption that we need to send players to Europe in their teens in order to develop them properly is misguided, IMO, and players going over at 18/19 (David/Davies) are already developed enough domestically and are simply going to play at higher levels.

Many of our players who have made a breakthrough to higher levels of football have done so in spite of the level of coaching here in Canada. They have made it; what you seem to leave out is the hundreds and the thousands that don’t ever get anywhere near decent coaching.  Look at Toronto and the amount of high level kids that get funnelled into one system, and they bugger it up.  Imagine how much better we could be if we had higher standard of coaching 

Using David and Davies is a great example thanks. Two kids living in smaller cities outside of the MLS academy route.  Euro academies will find players all over to attract top players and develop them. MLS academies don’t really. 

[Mihairokov]

5 minutes ago, Ottawafan said:

Look at Toronto and the amount of high level kids that get funnelled into one system, and they bugger it up.  Imagine how much better we could be if we had higher standard of coaching 

What would you recommend TFC do instead for their coaching? I've seen this opinion before and the main argument is not only that they're going to cycle through a lot of players but that they're also naturally going to miss some, too. It's why we need more academies, particularly from the CPL sides.

 

6 minutes ago, Ottawafan said:

Many of our players who have made a breakthrough to higher levels of football have done so in spite of the level of coaching here in Canada. They have made it; what you seem to leave out is the hundreds and the thousands that don’t ever get anywhere near decent coaching.

Would this not be the case for any footballing nation? You could make this same argument for many countries where players fall through the cracks for a multitude of reasons.

7 minutes ago, Ottawafan said:

Using David and Davies is a great example thanks.

Appreciate the sarcasm, because when Davies played for Canada U20 the club listed would have been Whitecaps 2, and when David played for Canada U17 the club would have been listed as Ottawa Internationals. Whether or not they would have developed differently (""better"") because they had European teams attached to that teamsheet instead is up for interpretation.

 

9 minutes ago, Ottawafan said:

Two kids living in smaller cities outside of the MLS academy route.  Euro academies will find players all over to attract top players and develop them. MLS academies don’t really. 

But Davies was found because he ended up in an MLS academy. I don't follow.

If players are developing outside of direct MLS markets then it's an issue of not having enough academies or clubs to support development. I'm not sure how you can pin this on MLS club coaching. There are thousands of players for them to find in the GTA without having to go to Sudbury or Ottawa or Sarnia. If players are falling through the cracks then there should be more clubs (see: more coaches) available, not expecting the MLS academies to spread out over even larger geographies.

The original OP in this thread basically said that if clubs were able to identify players better they could ship them off to Europe faster, and i'm arguing that 1) that isn't a good indicator of quality, and 2) we can develop players at home anyway.

[74 Whitecap]

If Mexico wins this game against Guatemala, and so far that looks likely (Mexico hasn't scored yet, but Guatemala has barely touched the ball), then Canada will be through to the quarter finals as neither Guatemala or Haiti can then reach 4 points in group C. 

The downside is that the final group C game between Mexico and Panama will allow them both to rotate and manage their lineups since there won't be much on the line for that one, so if we meet one of them in the q-final we will be coming up against a better rested team, although we will have one extra day of rest so that would help compensate a little.

[blueseeka]

11 minutes ago, 74 Whitecap said:

If Mexico wins this game against Guatemala, and so far that looks likely (Mexico hasn't scored yet, but Guatemala has barely touched the ball), then Canada will be through to the quarter finals as neither Guatemala or Haiti can then reach 4 points in group C. 

The downside is that the final group C game between Mexico and Panama will allow them both to rotate and manage their lineups since there won't be much on the line for that one, so if we meet one of them in the q-final we will be coming up against a better rested team, although we will have one extra day of rest so that would help compensate a little.

Watch the first half of the Panama game. They looked very dangerous. Either Mexico or Panama will be a very tough test to pass. Really hope we can somehow win the division to avoid both until we qualify for the WC

[blueseeka]

[74 Whitecap]

Just now, blueseeka said:

Watch the first half of the Panama game. They looked very dangerous. Either Mexico or Panama will be a very tough test to pass. Really hope we can somehow win the division to avoid both until we qualify for the WC

Agreed, they both look tough and I wouldn't favour us against either of them. Maybe DR can do us a solid and draw (or beat) Honduras and we can beat ES to avoid Panama and Mexico for the time being.

[gigi riva]

We are still a young Footballing nation  still learning and growing , We have made huge steps in recent years  and our coaching has improved over the last few years and will still continue to improve  ittle by little 

[narduch]

Today's Group A games will be played tomorrow instead.

 

 

[Borjans Sweatpants]

1 hour ago, narduch said:

Today's Group A games will be played tomorrow instead.

 

 

Do tomorrows games bump a day too then?

[narduch]

16 minutes ago, Borjans Sweatpants said:

Do tomorrows games bump a day too then?

No. The schedule for the other 2 groups is unchanged

Edited July 25 by narduch

[narduch]

Looking at One Soccer's schedule I don't think Fubo subscribers will get Canada's last group game live.

It shows the York United v Atletico Ottawa game at 7pm ET

[Ottawafan]

11 hours ago, Mihairokov said:

What would you recommend TFC do instead for their coaching? I've seen this opinion before and the main argument is not only that they're going to cycle through a lot of players but that they're also naturally going to miss some, too. It's why we need more academies, particularly from the CPL sides.

 

Would this not be the case for any footballing nation? You could make this same argument for many countries where players fall through the cracks for a multitude of reasons.

Appreciate the sarcasm, because when Davies played for Canada U20 the club listed would have been Whitecaps 2, and when David played for Canada U17 the club would have been listed as Ottawa Internationals. Whether or not they would have developed differently (""better"") because they had European teams attached to that teamsheet instead is up for interpretation.

 

But Davies was found because he ended up in an MLS academy. I don't follow.

If players are developing outside of direct MLS markets then it's an issue of not having enough academies or clubs to support development. I'm not sure how you can pin this on MLS club coaching. There are thousands of players for them to find in the GTA without having to go to Sudbury or Ottawa or Sarnia. If players are falling through the cracks then there should be more clubs (see: more coaches) available, not expecting the MLS academies to spread out over even larger geographies.

The original OP in this thread basically said that if clubs were able to identify players better they could ship them off to Europe faster, and i'm arguing that 1) that isn't a good indicator of quality, and 2) we can develop players at home anyway.

Agree 100% we need more academies.  We also need a higher level of coaching at all levels.  We need the various associations, pro teams and their academies and local grassroots clubs pulling in the same directions.  Football in Canada has been and still is on many levels a mess.  Yet we can still find talent to fill a top 50 national squad.

Is it the case in top countries?  I can't see how.  A few maybe, but overall the infrastructure is in place to find talent.  Much like hockey is here in Canada.  Kids very rarely get overlooked when it comes to out national sport.  Same in Euro countries when it comes to football.

David was approached by all pro clubs in Canada and to my knowledge some in the USA.  His development was fully outside the pro academy avenue.  He was the best player in Ontario at the 2000 age level and it was quite apparent.  he wasn't a fell thru the cracks type.  There were many in Ottawa as good as him at an early age, who never got the chance to continue to nurture their talent.  Davies and his Edmonton club had to beg Vancouver to give him a shot.  Beg them.  These are our two generational talents, mainly developed outside the MLS academy route.  I point this out because there are numerous talented players outside the the MLS cities that can be turned into very good football players, but would never have been considered for next level coaching.

I don't believe the only way to develop Canadian talent is to move them to a Euro based club.  There are many different paths we can take to push more kids to higher levels.  

[Dominic94]

3 minutes ago, Ottawafan said:

Agree 100% we need more academies.  We also need a higher level of coaching at all levels.  We need the various associations, pro teams and their academies and local grassroots clubs pulling in the same directions.  Football in Canada has been and still is on many levels a mess.  Yet we can still find talent to fill a top 50 national squad.

Is it the case in top countries?  I can't see how.  A few maybe, but overall the infrastructure is in place to find talent.  Much like hockey is here in Canada.  Kids very rarely get overlooked when it comes to out national sport.  Same in Euro countries when it comes to football.

David was approached by all pro clubs in Canada and to my knowledge some in the USA.  His development was fully outside the pro academy avenue.  He was the best player in Ontario at the 2000 age level and it was quite apparent.  he wasn't a fell thru the cracks type.  There were many in Ottawa as good as him at an early age, who never got the chance to continue to nurture their talent.  Davies and his Edmonton club had to beg Vancouver to give him a shot.  Beg them.  These are our two generational talents, mainly developed outside the MLS academy route.  I point this out because there are numerous talented players outside the the MLS cities that can be turned into very good football players, but would never have been considered for next level coaching.

I don't believe the only way to develop Canadian talent is to move them to a Euro based club.  There are many different paths we can take to push more kids to higher levels.  

Yeah David wasn’t missed and turned down more than one MLS club because he didn’t think he’d get a fair chance to play. I’ve read that multiple times.

Lets not forget Davies got more time for Canada than the White at the start.

[solsous]

I wonder if anyone on the squad is being seriously scouted by European clubs?

[VinceA]

1 hour ago, solsous said:

I wonder if anyone on the squad is being seriously scouted by European clubs?

Probably not. I can't recall many any players in all of the region who made a move based off a CONCACAF U20 tourney and hell we kept hyping up guys going to places like Sheffield and they just ended up in MLS Next Pro.

[DigzTFC]

Just now, VinceA said:

Probably not. I can't recall many any players in all of the region who made a move based off a CONCACAF U20 tourney and hell we kept hyping up guys going to places like Sheffield and they just ended up in MLS Next Pro.

This is precisely the value of qualifying for major tournaments.  Players are transferred based on playing higher level competition.  That's the value of Copa America, World Cup, the u20 World Cup, and the Olympics.  The fewer major tournaments we play in, the fewer player with transfers to better leagues, the lower the ceiling on the squad. 

That's why the group of players at the Copa America was so special.  We've caught lightening in Bombito, Kone, Jonathan David, Shaffelburg, Tani etc.  We are extremely lucky to hit on those prospects in the same window. 

I do wonder if the CSA should establish a Sub Committee or Shadow Board for their youth side to develop a better scouting strategy by leveraging statistics to help identify gems across the LeagueOne Canada entities. Part of the reason Bombito was identified late is that he was converted to a center back in 2020.  If he wasn't converted to a center back I doubt he would be a pro.  That's crazy if you think about it.  How many players have died on the vine because they kept playing a position which did not play to their strengths.

-

[Protega]

4 hours ago, Dominic94 said:

Yeah David wasn’t missed and turned down more than one MLS club because he didn’t think he’d get a fair chance to play. I’ve read that multiple times.

Lets not forget Davies got more time for Canada than the White at the start.

David wasn't missed, but people forget that the 2000 age group was the last one where a camp was held that included non-MLS academy players (it was an event with the three MLS academies and one team made up of non-MLS academy players).  It was also the last age group where a player could get onto the youth national teams without being part of an MLS academy or playing outside of Canada.  Were it not for that camp and getting into the national U15 and then U17 teams, I'm pretty sure no one in Europe would have seen him and I would probably watch him play tonight in the Men's Premier division here in Ottawa.

From what I recall, I think the non-MLS squad won all three of their games and I always thought that was probably the reason they never put one of those on again.

Sadly, I wouldn't say we developed (or identified) anyone close to David's or Davies' levels since the 2000 age group and do wonder if things might have been different if they had expanded scouting, rather than restricting it further.  If we're being honest with ourselves, other than Lopez (developed outside of Canada), the current U20 squad's technical level is quite low.

[Aird25]

9 minutes ago, Protega said:

David wasn't missed, but people forget that the 2000 age group was the last one where a camp was held that included non-MLS academy players (it was an event with the three MLS academies and one team made up of non-MLS academy players).  It was also the last age group where a player could get onto the youth national teams without being part of an MLS academy or playing outside of Canada.  Were it not for that camp and getting into the national U15 and then U17 teams, I'm pretty sure no one in Europe would have seen him and I would probably watch him play tonight in the Men's Premier division here in Ottawa.

From what I recall, I think the non-MLS squad won all three of their games and I always thought that was probably the reason they never put one of those on again.

Sadly, I wouldn't say we developed (or identified) anyone close to David's or Davies' levels since the 2000 age group and do wonder if things might have been different if they had expanded scouting, rather than restricting it further.  If we're being honest with ourselves, other than Lopez (developed outside of Canada), the current U20 squad's technical level is quite low.

I'm not sure I understand. The current U20 squad has players that aren't part of MLS academies and playing within Canada.