Canada and the U17 World Cup: Nov 10 to Dec 2 in Indonesia

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

22 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

One of these might help: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Masia

Or perhaps: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/INF_Clairefontaine

I've long advocated for the need for an elite national team training centre, or centres that follow the french model...

What ever happened to this project?

https://www.yorkregion.com/news/city-of-vaughan-canada-soccer-pitch-national-training-centre-at-north-maple-regional-park/article_312620c8-6404-5056-ba6f-2113dbd769c4.html

[VinceA]

It's easy to say what we need to be "Great" but ultimately we aren't a soccer nation first, all these other places are.

[narduch]

6 minutes ago, Olympique_de_Marseille said:

What ever happened to this project?

https://www.yorkregion.com/news/city-of-vaughan-canada-soccer-pitch-national-training-centre-at-north-maple-regional-park/article_312620c8-6404-5056-ba6f-2113dbd769c4.html

The two biggest proponents of this project are now gone. Bontis is out at the CSA. That Mayor of Vaughan didn't seek reelection. It probably died with both of them leaving.

Just like the Woodbine proposal I guess they were hoping for some sweet government money but it never happened. 

[narduch]

We need more merit based free academies and less pay to play.

Also better scouting and coaching.

[InglewoodJack]

Also, to add to this, I just came across this on twitter- this is what is possible if you invest in local soccer. Tajon, Jayden Nelson, Richie Ennin, Luke Singh, and a ton of players currently in the NCAA all played soccer for the same high school at the same time: https://x.com/nofinishsports/status/1717632282981171336?s=46&t=spIaqlQfufAO3HreB1455Q

Cyle Larin and Jonathan Osorio are also alumni. This is just one well placed high school in a very population dense area. Imagine what dedicated development academies and more elite programs elsewhere in the country could do?

[Soccerpro2]

1 hour ago, narduch said:

We need more merit based free academies and less pay to play.

Also better scouting and coaching.

No one disagrees. The question is how? and who pays for it?

[VinceA]

1 hour ago, Soccerpro2 said:

No one disagrees. The question is how? and who pays for it?

Yeah people seem to conveniently forget most academies in Europe have their costs eaten up by their professional teams so they can run free.

We don't have that here outside the few pro clubs that can afford it (Both US and Canada)

If we make all community clubs go F2P they all go belly up. And people can't all be volunteers either.

 

[red card]

6 hours ago, Stoppage Time said:

Which again poses the question: what fundamental adjustments need to be made to Canada's youth development to find and/or develop such players? How much of the gap is attributed to natural talent, to coaching, to access to the game through clubs and academies, to appropriate competition, and to desire or a natural love for the game? I suppose that it is a combination of all of them, but are there any that stand out?

My kid has played for a local club team for several years yet that club has had very limited success in developing some talented youngsters for the "net level". AT the same time, they have access only to one quarter of a shared training field, and that prevents the players from properly using what they do in training on a full match day field. Very inefficient.

Based on Lamine Yamal's profile piece in the Athletic, you need local places to play especially if the family can't afford the fees, you need to develop a sense of identity, have an adult with a football background to guide your future on and off the pitch, be in a youth club that will help players financially to continue playing, have scouts who can id talent even at u10 level, pro clubs should have academy teams below u10, need more than 3 pro club academies and a couple of these pro club academies really know how to develop players.

Canada is missing most of these. Even with local places to play, there won't be enough kids playing unorganized footy for the love of the sport. Then, the formal football pyramid business model isn't structured to profit from developing pro level players. Though, seeing it a bit in League 1 Ontario for both men and women.

Yamal grew up in a town 40 minutes away from Barcelona with 120k population. It sits in a privileged position geographically but is a humble neighbourhood in the middle of a region of rich cities.

Yamal never played at the local municipal grounds since he couldn't afford the fees. But he did play on the concrete football court right beside it. It's one of the focal points of the neighbourhood. Across the street, a bakery run by one of his cousins feeds the kids playing football. All of this helped him develop a sense of identity & belonging. When he scored his first Barcelona goal, his gesture was in reference to the local postcode.

It was common to see scouts at matches from regional lower-league clubs that try to invest in youth players, such as Damm or UE Cornella. But Yamal’s case was rare. He was spotted by a scout at 7 who got him a trial at Barcelona. 

https://theathletic.com/4997511/2023/10/26/barcelona-lamine-yamal-rocafonda-el-clasico/

Edited October 27, 2023 by red card

[Unnamed Trialist]

7 hours ago, InglewoodJack said:

Damn, here I am with high hopes that TJ Tahid becomes something great because he's playing in the CPL at 16, or thinking that if Stefanovic sticks with TFC next year he might be an answer to our CB issues long term, and then you see Spain who's brining in a player who plays, and now scores for Barcelona, and despite that, they're still missing their superstar, Lamal, because he's so good that he just bypassed the youth set up and is going into the senior team automatically.

 

I know we don't need reminders at where we sit in the world soccer hierarchy, but it's crazy when you think about the massive gap in talent between a modestly successful country like ours and a complete powerhouse like Spain. Guiu looked good last game and Lamal looks absolutely awesome. Those two are the real deal.

We're the outliers at Barça though, we are promoting teens into the first team, often due to injuries, then Spain is picking the kids up. But it's not habitual this level of youth participation in top teams. 

If the question is what should Canada do, then I'd say stop pandering to the pay to play clubs, for a start, and ensure legit competition between the best players in a local/regional league; develop academies for MLS teams that really reflect the vision of the first team to make promoting youth relevant; then make the step to CPL academies in the image of the first teams. Or extend the L1 seasons and CPL clubs pick some up as academies.

But even then our soccer structure is too thin to really expect more than mediocre results.

I'm against the national training center model as kids need to be close to home. And there's no evidence those coaches are better than the ones they may already have. I'm really in favour of kids playing with friends and not stressing over travel to go to a bigger club until they're maybe 11-12.

Btw regarding the Lamine situation, it's not that different from other kids of immigrant or partially immigrant families here, Balde, Abde, Ansu Fati; the working class Spanish stock aren't a lot better off but had enough to pay for football but we're talking about 40-50€/month, like Fermin, Gavi, Pedri. Marc Guiu is from a better off family.

Final edit: Gavi turned 19 last August and has over 100 official matches for FCB, the continuity is what's important. He's a physical beast, tough as nails. But get his origins: his town of 40,000 maybe 4Okm from Sevilla produced Joaquín who just retired aged 40, Fabian Ruiz aged 27 at PSG and him. 

Edited October 27, 2023 by Unnamed Trialist

[Soccerpro2]

Odds of making it pro in Canada = ridiculously slim.

Odds of making it pro without a father and/or older siblings that played at a high level in Canada= waaaaaaaaaay more ridiculously slim.

There's a huge coaching gap in this country (everyone knows that). The % of pro players in the US/Canada that had dads as coaches growing up that also played at a higher level (along with older siblings) vs those that didnt is ridiculously tilted in their favour.

When I went to my 10 year nephews soccer practice for the first time, there was a kid there with technique and awareness that stood out head and shoulders above all the other kids. He was playing years ahead of the other players in all aspects (except physical). My sister told me his dad was the coach and that his older brother was really good, too. Imagine my surprise. My nephew told me he was jealous of the other player because "no one shows him the things that the other player gets shown to work on".

In Europe/South America, the community coaching and infrastructure is so good that kids still have a good shot at progressing, even without being blessed by being born into a soccer playing family. In Canada/USA, it's such a hindrance. 

As someone who played at a semi decent level when he was younger (4 years of University varsity soccer) when I watch my nephew's soccer practices (they play several times a week in a competitive stream) 99% of the kids (10 and under) have 0 situational awareness, little to no technique and aren't playing the game with any real vision. The one or two kids that do, got luck with family members who taught them.

How will we know if/when we ever become a soccer nation? When kids with no family soccer playing experience aren't at a massive disadvantage vs their peers with family soccer playing experience because the coaching they receive at their clubs from a very young age is good enough to even the playing field and doesn't leave any kids behind.

The net needs to be widened in several ways in this country. However, youth coaching is the biggest hurdle times a million  and I long for the day when kids have a realistic chance of making it to a high level if they're not from Montreal, Southern Ontario, Lower Mainland BC, Calgary or Edmonton. 

Edited October 27, 2023 by Soccerpro2

[P-O]

34 minutes ago, Soccerpro2 said:

Odds of making it pro in Canada = ridiculously slim.

Odds of making it pro without a father and/or older siblings that played at a high level in Canada= waaaaaaaaaay more ridiculously slim.

There's a huge coaching gap in this country (everyone knows that). The % of pro players in the US/Canada that had dads as coaches growing up that also played at a higher level (along with older siblings) vs those that didnt is ridiculously tilted in their favour.

When I went to my 10 year nephews soccer practice for the first time, there was a kid there with technique and awareness that stood out head and shoulders above all the other kids. He was playing years ahead of the other players in all aspects (except physical). My sister told me his dad was the coach and that his older brother was really good, too. Imagine my surprise. My nephew told me he was jealous of the other player because "no one shows him the things that the other player gets shown to work on".

In Europe/South America, the community coaching and infrastructure is so good that kids still have a good shot at progressing, even without being blessed by being born into a soccer playing family. In Canada/USA, it's such a hindrance. 

As someone who played at a semi decent level when he was younger (4 years of University varsity soccer) when I watch my nephew's soccer practices (they play several times a week in a competitive stream) 99% of the kids (10 and under) have 0 situational awareness, little to no technique and aren't playing the game with any real vision. The one or two kids that do, got luck with family members who taught them.

How will we know if/when we ever become a soccer nation? When kids with no family soccer playing experience aren't at a massive disadvantage vs their peers with family soccer playing experience because the coaching they receive at their clubs from a very young age is good enough to even the playing field and doesn't leave any kids behind.

The net needs to be widened in several ways in this country. However, youth coaching is the biggest hurdle times a million  and I long for the day when kids have a realistic chance of making it to a high level if they're not from Montreal, Southern Ontario, Lower Mainland BC, Calgary or Edmonton. 

Great post.

It shall come naturally with timr, with professionnals going back to their roots and building up local football. Maybe even own a L1 team & get an academy.

We are asking for progress at a pace we can't sustain.

It will take time & immigration will help it.

I'm 38 and I always lived in rural parts. There is no love for football here.

 

But slowly we see immigrants and it will come. They want to play football. They have more technique.

Look at our national team, it reflects your post entirely. 

Good job and it was a great read.

[Unnamed Trialist]

34 minutes ago, Soccerpro2 said:

Odds of making it pro in Canada = ridiculously slim.

Odds of making it pro without a father and/or older siblings that played at a high level in Canada= waaaaaaaaaay more ridiculously slim.

There's a huge coaching gap in this country (everyone knows that). The % of pro players in the US/Canada that had dads as coaches growing up that also played at a higher level (along with older siblings) vs those that didnt is ridiculously tilted in their favour.

When I went to my 10 year nephews soccer practice for the first time, there was a kid there with technique and awareness that stood out head and shoulders above all the other kids. He was playing years ahead of the other players in all aspects (except physical). My sister told me his dad was the coach and that his older brother was really good, too. Imagine my surprise. My nephew told me he was jealous of the other player because "no one shows him the things that the other player gets shown to work on".

In Europe/South America, the community coaching and infrastructure is so good that kids still have a good shot at progressing, even without being blessed by being born into a soccer playing family. In Canada/USA, it's such a hindrance. 

As someone who played at a semi decent level when he was younger (4 years of University varsity soccer) when I watch my nephew's soccer practices (they play several times a week in a competitive stream) 99% of the kids (10 and under) have 0 situational awareness, little to no technique and aren't playing the game with any real vision. The one or two kids that do, got luck with family members who taught them.

How will we know if/when we ever become a soccer nation? When kids with no family soccer playing experience aren't at a massive disadvantage vs their peers with family soccer playing experience because the coaching they receive at their clubs from a very young age is good enough to even the playing field and doesn't leave any kids behind.

The net needs to be widened in several ways in this country. However, youth coaching is the biggest hurdle times a million  and I long for the day when kids have a realistic chance of making it to a high level if they're not from Montreal, Southern Ontario, Lower Mainland BC, Calgary or Edmonton. 

I'd say that's close, first play, a lot, especially pick up then organized; then get corrected. I was never corrected as a kid in Canada, in fact we didn't even work on touch, if you knew you knew. I didn't.

There's no question that you should play a lot, then get constant correction. Then play against competitive clubs who'll remind you what you need to learn if you don't know already.

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

On 10/26/2023 at 8:39 AM, narduch said:

Apparently we have lined up a friendly with Argentina

https://www.clubtalleres.com.ar/florentin-y-albarracin-convocados-para-jugar-el-mundial-sub-17/

This match will be Sunday, November 5th in Bali, Indonesia.

The Argentina squad we will face:

https://back.afa.org.ar/es/posts/sub-17-convocados-para-el-mundial-de-indonesia

Edited October 29, 2023 by Olympique_de_Marseille

[Kent]

On 10/27/2023 at 5:36 PM, Soccerpro2 said:

How will we know if/when we ever become a soccer nation? When kids with no family soccer playing experience aren't at a massive disadvantage vs their peers with family soccer playing experience because the coaching they receive at their clubs from a very young age is good enough to even the playing field and doesn't leave any kids behind.

Right now I would take the baby step of parents at their young children's houseleague games knowing that the touch line isn't marking where to put the front legs of your lawn chair down.

[InglewoodJack]

Roster dropped:

https://x.com/canadasocceren/status/1720063301076336981?s=46&t=spIaqlQfufAO3HreB1455Q

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

The AFA confirms the friendly this Sunday in Bali:

https://www.afa.com.ar/es/posts/sub-17-primer-entrenamiento-en-indonesia

 

Sadly, no broadcast details or kickoff times given.

---------

First match WC match against Spain will be on TSN1, TSN 4 and RDS.

Edited November 2, 2023 by Olympique_de_Marseille

[Bigandy]

who's missing. 

de Sa ?
Higazy ?
khan - hes super young

anyone know if they are left off for merit. I would assume they are 2 top prospects coming from europe? 

[Approve My Account Pls]

Updated my post from when the Pre-Lim roster dropped:

GK- Nathaniel Abraham | CAN / Toronto FC Academy

GK- Dominic Kantorowicz | CAN / Toronto FC Academy

GK- Alexander O’Brien | CAN / Toronto FC Academy

CB- Victor Fung | CAN / Inter Miami FC Academy

CB- Étienne Godin | CAN / Académie CF Montréal

CB- Chimere Omeze | CAN / Toronto FC Academy

CB- Lazar Stefanovic | CAN / Toronto FC 2

CB- Richard Chukwu | CAN / Toronto FC Academy

FB- Lino Aklil | FRA / HSC Montpellier

FB- Gaël de Montigny | CAN / Académie CF Montréal

FB- Aidan Fong | CAN / Vancouver Whitecaps FC Academy

FB- Theo Rigopoulos | CAN / Toronto FC 2

M- Jeevan Badwal | CAN / Vancouver Whitecaps FC Academy

M- Alessandro Biello | CAN / Académie de CF Montréal

M- Philip Igbinobaro | CAN / Toronto FC Academy

M- Tyler Londono | CAN / Toronto FC Academy

F- Taryck Tahid | CAN / Vancouver FC

F- Antoni Klukowski | POL / Pogon Szczechin

F- Lucas Ozimec | CAN / Toronto FC Academy

F- Erik Pop | GER / Karlsruher SC U-19

F- Kevaughn Tavernier | CAN / Forge FC Hamilton

 

Extras:

• Sergei Kozlovskiy (CF Montreal Academy)
• Liam MacKenzie | CAN / Vancouver Whitecaps FC Academy

Dropped from Pre-Lim:

• Jean-Christophe Belzile (CF Montreal Academy)
• Kyler Vojvodic | CAN / Vancouver Whitecaps FC Academy

Dropped from Brazil Roster:

• Allen Says Blegay (Simcoe Rovers FC)

Dropped from Qualifiers Roster:

• Matteo Landicho-Correia (TFC Academy)
• Antoine N’Diaye (CF Montreal Academy - injury?)
• Braden Stevanovic (Tecumseh SC)
• Ruben de Sa (Vitoria SC)
• Simon Guardiero (Sigma FC)
• Andrei Dumitru (TFC Academy)
• Ibrahim Higazy (Rayo Vallecano)

[VinceA]

Liam MacKenzie probably should have been on the team since he's playing pro minutes with WFC2.

[Soccerpro2]

Like seeing 2 CPL players on the list. 

10 TFC players vs 2 Whitecaps and 3 Montreal players is a pretty big disparity. Is there that much of a difference in talent? All 3 GKs from the TFC academy is pretty bizarre. 

Edited November 2, 2023 by Soccerpro2

[jonovision]

Klukowski? I have to assume a relation to the greatest lb in Canadian history?

[RS]

On 10/29/2023 at 10:30 PM, Kent said:

Right now I would take the baby step of parents at their young children's houseleague games knowing that the touch line isn't marking where to put the front legs of your lawn chair down.

This is a hyperlocal reference that I'm all too familiar with.

[Unnamed Trialist]

2 hours ago, Bigandy said:

who's missing. 

de Sa ?
Higazy ?
khan - hes super young

anyone know if they are left off for merit. I would assume they are 2 top prospects coming from europe? 

Higazy last I looked hasn't played a minute or made a roster since he signed for Celta Vigo u-19, last days of August. So either he is off their books, or injured, or both, I would say.

 

[Bigandy]

does anyone know if aklil is a top prospect? 

[Kent]

59 minutes ago, RS said:

This is a hyperlocal reference that I'm all too familiar with.

If I was a ref, I think I would make the parents back up before the game starts, and make sure they know that the ball could hit them while it is still in play. But I feel like as a dad just there to watch if I took on that responsibility I would just come across as a pedantic jerk.