nolando Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 I think it's poor for continuity, momentum, and interest to have the last QF match played so long after the others are wrapped up. What was the reasoning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narduch Posted May 23 Author Share Posted May 23 (edited) 11 minutes ago, nolando said: I think it's poor for continuity, momentum, and interest to have the last QF match played so long after the others are wrapped up. What was the reasoning? Just wait for the semi-finals. When the 2 legs will be 1.5 months apart. (Fuck you Leagues Cup) Edited May 23 by narduch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmen Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 1 hour ago, narduch said: Just wait for the semi-finals. When the 2 legs will be 1.5 months apart. (Fuck you Leagues Cup) Shouldn't have been two legs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narduch Posted May 23 Author Share Posted May 23 9 minutes ago, Watchmen said: Shouldn't have been two legs. After yesterday I disagree. I hope they keep the current format. Even as they expand. Keep the quarters and semis at 2 legs. Partly because I think it makes it more credible if the MLS sides play at least 5 matches instead of just 3. And selfishly its more content for me to watch. Kingston, gator, NVsoccer and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingston Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 (edited) 1 hour ago, narduch said: After yesterday I disagree. I hope they keep the current format. Even as they expand. Keep the quarters and semis at 2 legs. Partly because I think it makes it more credible if the MLS sides play at least 5 matches instead of just 3. And selfishly its more content for me to watch. I'd also suggest a two leg final. Also worth noting that Montreal only played two matches this year. And, to be fair, if TFC make the final they will play six. Edited May 23 by Kingston narduch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gator Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 3 hours ago, Kingston said: Really, Mr. Noonan? You're honestly surprised that teams with ~$15 million USD budgets would be ashamed of losing over two legs to teams with ~$1 million CDN budgets? I think it is just a bit of banter on the Noonan's part and good for him, as a CPL fan I think these Cupsets are great and really beneficial to the reputation of the new league! When the CPL started matching up with MLS I really expected some major beatings similar to what TFC did to the Lg1 Quebec team but for the most part the underdogs have been quite competitive! This was Forge's 4th time matching up with CF Montreal and I gave them little chance over 2 legs but was I ever proven wrong! After the first meeting went to pk's Montreal were completely dominant the last 2 seasons at Saputo, I think playing the Mexican giants in Concacaf has served Forge well! narduch, WestHamCanadianinOxford, Ivan and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmen Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 38 minutes ago, gator said: I think it is just a bit of banter on the Noonan's part and good for him, as a CPL fan I think these Cupsets are great and really beneficial to the reputation of the new league! When the CPL started matching up with MLS I really expected some major beatings similar to what TFC did to the Lg1 Quebec team but for the most part the underdogs have been quite competitive! This was Forge's 4th time matching up with CF Montreal and I gave them little chance over 2 legs but was I ever proven wrong! After the first meeting went to pk's Montreal were completely dominant the last 2 seasons at Saputo, I think playing the Mexican giants in Concacaf has served Forge well! I think everyone here loves Cup upsets (so long as it's not your team being upset), and Noonan can absolutely take the position of being proud of the product they're putting out. I think it's him being upset about a manager using the term "shameful" or having to being up "we're Div 1!" that's rubbing some people the wrong way. gator 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingston Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 8 minutes ago, Watchmen said: I think it's him being upset about a manager using the term "shameful" or having to being up "we're Div 1!" that's rubbing some people the wrong way. For sure. Can you imagine the coach at the post-game press conference offering the excuse that, "Hey, they're also a D1 team, you know!" I don't think that would fly. Or, if D1 is D1, Real Madrid or Manchester City using that out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmen Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 1 hour ago, Kingston said: For sure. Can you imagine the coach at the post-game press conference offering the excuse that, "Hey, they're also a D1 team, you know!" I don't think that would fly. Or, if D1 is D1, Real Madrid or Manchester City using that out? I mean, there's members on this board that insist if it's one leg the CPL side should always host (on the basis of lower league should host) but will also loudly complain that both leagues are Div 1.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil03 Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 (edited) 4 hours ago, gator said: I think it is just a bit of banter on the Noonan's part and good for him, as a CPL fan I think these Cupsets are great and really beneficial to the reputation of the new league! When the CPL started matching up with MLS I really expected some major beatings similar to what TFC did to the Lg1 Quebec team but for the most part the underdogs have been quite competitive! This was Forge's 4th time matching up with CF Montreal and I gave them little chance over 2 legs but was I ever proven wrong! After the first meeting went to pk's Montreal were completely dominant the last 2 seasons at Saputo, I think playing the Mexican giants in Concacaf has served Forge well! I'd say that the CPL is at the ''can pull off upsets if circumstances are there'' that many lower-level clubs accross the world are in when it come to the CanChamp. It can be down to the bigger club being a mess at the moment, them underestimating the smaller one too much, when its one game thing, just the inner randomness of a one-match tie playing it or some combo. Its basically the less fun, yet more accurate, way of describing what people mean when they talk about cup magic. Neither of us saw Forge having a big chance against MTL because the circumstances weren't there at the time of the draft because the circumstances to make it happen just weren't really into view by that point. Then stuff happened and said circumstances very much started to come into view (I think the first time I was worried was when I heard that Saputo had messed with Choiniere's contract negotiations), which Courtois compounded with some of his lineup choices and Forge was able to take advantage. Just like stuff happened in HFX, leading Qc Soccer insiders to start making noise about CS Saint Laurent and them turning out to be right. In neither case does it diminish the smaller club's accomplishment, as when all is said and done taking advantage of stuff like that is what smaller clubs generally try to do in Cup tournaments so in both cases they did their job, if that makes sense? Basically, the Voyageurs Cup's internal dynamic is starting to look like a lot of Cup competitions all over the place do. 2 hours ago, Watchmen said: I mean, there's members on this board that insist if it's one leg the CPL side should always host (on the basis of lower league should host) but will also loudly complain that both leagues are Div 1.... For me that is indeed where I get annoyed, as I am a big believer in consistency in stuff like that. CPL clubs shouldn't float proposals like the one you describe but then turnaround and make noises about Div 1 status when they don't like that other clubs see loosing against them as worse then loosing against another MLS club or when its time to argue for two spots in concacaf to be reserved for them. Right now CPL and MLS clubs are treated on the same footing for CanChamp organisation purposes and IMO that's how it should be. Edited May 23 by phil03 gator, Kingston and Trois Reds 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aird25 Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 11 minutes ago, phil03 said: lower-level clubs accross the world are in when it come to the CanChamp. What other lower-level clubs across the world compete in CanChamp? Forge were simply better. CPL squads operate under a much lower budget than MLS, but that hasn't always proven to be the deciding factor in terms of results Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil03 Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Aird25 said: What other lower-level clubs across the world compete in CanChamp? Forge were simply better. CPL squads operate under a much lower budget than MLS, but that hasn't always proven to be the deciding factor in terms of results I mean lower level clubs all over the world in their own cup competitions and yes, indeed they were in those games as they defeated who they played against, which is the only thing a team can do. To mention the circumstances that contributed to make that happen (when it didn't happen in previous years and wasn't expected to happen this year) isn't denying that. And at the risk of being too blunt, a lot of CPL-first fans when it come to the club game, including some who are Forge fans, don't seem to have an issue with the context of the game being mentioned, and indeed several have done so in their own posts. As of yet you are the only one on the forum who seem to feel the need to push back against that... Edited May 23 by phil03 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aird25 Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 3 minutes ago, phil03 said: I mean lower level clubs all over the world in their own cup competitions and yes, indeed they were in those games. They defeated who they played against, to mention the circumstances that contributed to them being better in those games when they weren't in past years and weren't expecting to be until fairly recently isn't denying that. Cheers. So cup magic and Montreal being a mess explain it. It's just a shame how little credit the winning team gets in this scenario Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil03 Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Aird25 said: Cheers. So cup magic and Montreal being a mess explain it. It's just a shame how little credit the winning team gets in this scenario Literally my opening lines in my post in reaction to the game: ''I. To everyone involved in Forge as an organisation and to the vast majority of its fans, including those in this forum, congrats on the upset! Without any caveat or reservation. You played who showed up and you won. I can't say good luck as one of my club is still in the competition and I want them to be the first CPL club to make it to the final through the normal set up of the competition but godspeed!'' Believe it or not but two truths can co-exist here: Forge can deserve all the credits in the world for having done what they needed to do and for having played very well AND the mess in Montréal can have been a pretty important factor in the tie as well. Those two things are not mutually exclusive. Its almost like there is actually two teams playing and what both are doing on the pitch and going through off the pitch influence the outcome of a match or tie... Edited May 23 by phil03 Kingston 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingston Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 (edited) When Forge’s A team can beat Montreal’s A team then it’s entirely down to outplaying them. Otherwise the surrounding circumstances do matter. To me, it’s telling that the MLS teams went 13-1 over the past few years when they were facing CPL teams in single knockout games and therefore had to play strong lineups but this year, when we’ve gone back to two leg series and rotated lineups, we see the CPL teams doing much better. Just like they did in the first year when it was also two leg series. Edited May 24 by Kingston It was actually 13-1, not 11-1. Watchmen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 Bit of a side bar, but I swear in years past (I think last year, but not entirely certain) the schedule ticker on the top of the MLS website would show Canadian Championship and US Open Cup games (at least when an MLS team is involved). This year they seem to be absent. So did MLS just decide they were not going to stop at not entering teams in the US Open Cup, they would also minimize the 2 national cups exposure on the website as well? masster 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingston Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 9 minutes ago, Kent said: Bit of a side bar, but I swear in years past (I think last year, but not entirely certain) the schedule ticker on the top of the MLS website would show Canadian Championship and US Open Cup games (at least when an MLS team is involved). This year they seem to be absent. So did MLS just decide they were not going to stop at not entering teams in the US Open Cup, they would also minimize the 2 national cups exposure on the website as well? You are not wrong. I noticed this as well. Although they do still have their Canadian Championship and USOC sections on their website. You just have to click through to them. Kent 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmen Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 14 hours ago, Kingston said: You are not wrong. I noticed this as well. Although they do still have their Canadian Championship and USOC sections on their website. You just have to click through to them. They've also been discussed on MLS Extra, their official podcast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narduch Posted May 24 Author Share Posted May 24 Tangentially related, but MLS on Apple TV has picked up the remaining of the US Open Cup and the games will be free Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unnamed Trialist Posted May 28 Share Posted May 28 (edited) Question for semi-finals: Is it an entirely new draw for semis, both matchups and order of play in the home and away? The semis are a pure draw, no manipulations? No fiddling to get a CPL vs. MLS matchup in both cases? Edited May 28 by Unnamed Trialist narduch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narduch Posted May 28 Author Share Posted May 28 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said: Question for semi-finals: Is it an entirely new draw for semis, both matchups and order of play in the home and away? The semis are a pure draw, no manipulations? No fiddling to get a CPL vs. MLS matchup in both cases? It's a new draw with no manipulations. I believe we will be able to watch the draw live during half time of the last quarter final match. I think this was done because had they kept the tournament regional it becomes unfair and unbalanced with one half of the bracket having 2 MLS teams and the other half has only 1. I don't think the home and away is drawn though. I think that is based on some ranking system the CSA has created. Which I think means the MLS teams would host the 2nd leg if they draw a CPL team. But I'm not 100% sure on this Edited May 28 by narduch Mihairokov and Kingston 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingston Posted May 28 Share Posted May 28 14 minutes ago, narduch said: It's a new draw with no manipulations. I believe we will be able to watch the draw live during half time of the last quarter final match. I think this was done because had they kept the tournament regional it becomes unfair and unbalanced with one half of the bracket having 2 MLS teams and the other half has only 1. I don't think the home and away is drawn though. I think that is based on some ranking system the CSA has created. Which I think means the MLS teams would host the 2nd leg if they draw a CPL team. But I'm not 100% sure on this I believe you are correct on all counts. narduch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narduch Posted May 28 Author Share Posted May 28 6 minutes ago, Kingston said: I believe you are correct on all counts. Based on Wikipedia I think they are drawing for the the Finals host. I'd would be interested to know how the rankings work. If its based on how far teams got in last years tournament then Forge would actually get to host the home leg if they draw TFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingston Posted May 28 Share Posted May 28 2 minutes ago, narduch said: Based on Wikipedia I think they are drawing for the the Finals host. I'd would be interested to know how the rankings work. If its based on how far teams got in last years tournament then Forge would actually get to host the home leg if they draw TFC The CSA has not published the ranking formula anywhere I have found. Based on the ranking order they did release, I infer that the rankings include more than one year worth of results. This would be consistent with how this type of ranking is normally done. Also, in past years they have explicitly said that teams received byes (or whatever) based on last year's standings so that fact that they're now calling it a ranking system would further imply a multi-year approach. narduch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingston Posted May 28 Share Posted May 28 1 hour ago, narduch said: Based on Wikipedia I think they are drawing for the the Finals host. I'm not sure if I'd prefer a draw or using the rankings to determine the host for the final. Of course, what I'd really prefer is a home and away final. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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