Next CanMNT manager (Herdman to TFC)

[Aird25]

6 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Responding to many on the CPL managers: just how ambitious are they? 

My view is that if you want to coach a national team, you have to have shown you were dead set on moving up the coaching ladder, with bigger clubs, harder challenges, and higher salary ambitions. Neither have shown this. Compare with the great variety of other candidates we have seen here, almost all of whom have no problem bouncing around, giving something a shot in a different country.

Neither are very young, they are both at a time in their careers where they could make a push for something bigger, but it is not clear they have. Both seem to want to live where they are and, in Bobby's case, make himself very available for those few jobs that come up that would ensure he could still sit on his own back porch in the evening. 

For me, if you are making upward of 100,000 as a CPL coach, which could be the case for either, that is great. Neither has done a single thing to prove they are intent on rising in their careers and reaching greater heights as MLS coaches, in Europe, for distant national teams. That is why, as I see it, neither deserve to be considered a candidate for Canada. They are both too cushy, and that is a lack of leadership.

Smyrniotis at least has been quite clear on having ambitions beyond CPL

https://northerntribune.ca/coach-bobby-smyrniotis-national-team-ambition/

[Unnamed Trialist]

2 minutes ago, Aird25 said:

Smyrniotis at least has been quite clear on having ambitions beyond CPL

https://northerntribune.ca/coach-bobby-smyrniotis-national-team-ambition/

It is all very well to talk, but after 5 years, and so many trophies, walk the walk.

Does he have an agent? Does he have offers? Does he want to coach at a higher level? He's 44, good time to take a chance on another project. No player with his bio, and full career ahead if he wanted, would just be sitting on it for a middle class salary in the CPL.

Edited April 20 by Unnamed Trialist

[Sal333]

2 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

It is all very well to talk, but after 5 years, and so many trophies, walk the walk.

Does he have an agent? Does he have offers? Does he want to coach at a higher level? He's 44, good time to take a chance on another project. No player with his bio, and full career ahead if he wanted, would just be sitting on it for a middle class salary in the CPL.

Getting a soccer coaching job is not a dance at a rave. It's more like a waltz or a tango. It takes two to dance. Only a couple of years ago Davies revealed that Canadian soccer players were not respected in world soccer. What makes you think it's not the same or worse for Canuck coaches?

[Joe MacCarthy]

21 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

It is all very well to talk, but after 5 years, and so many trophies, walk the walk.

He has nothing left to prove in the CPL, it's time to conquer newer and bigger challenges

[narduch]

31 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

It is all very well to talk, but after 5 years, and so many trophies, walk the walk.

Does he have an agent? Does he have offers? Does he want to coach at a higher level? He's 44, good time to take a chance on another project. No player with his bio, and full career ahead if he wanted, would just be sitting on it for a middle class salary in the CPL.

Well he apparently did interview for the CF Montreal Jon.

[phil03]

8 minutes ago, Aird25 said:

Smyrniotis at least has been quite clear on having ambitions beyond CPL

https://northerntribune.ca/coach-bobby-smyrniotis-national-team-ambition/

5 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

It is all very well to talk, but after 5 years, and so many trophies, walk the walk.

Does he have an agent? Does he have offers? Does he want to coach at a higher level? He's 44, good time to take a chance on another project. No player with his bio, and full career ahead if he wanted, would just be sitting on it for a middle class salary in the CPL.

This but also in his case my one concern, and I do acknowledge its speculation, is that while he genuinely wants to move up, he isn't necessarily willing to make the sacrifices in terms of working conditions to make that happen. When podcasts speak on it what they often say is ''oh, but he is really comfortable at Forge, built something great and he really gets to realise his vision with the team, it would really take the right project and condition to make him leave'' which... honestly that's now how things work, not just in Soccer but in life in general.

If you are good at your job then eventually your past accomplishments will get you more leaway in your current position and you'll get to work with more autonomy and/or with things being more tailored to your taste, or at least that's how it is in a healthy organization. Eventually you'll be considered for promotions but if you do get it then you can't expect your past accomplishments to have as much weight in how things will be in your new position, because they were the reason you got the position in the first place. You'll have to prove yourself again if you want the same kind of cushy situation.

IF (once again acknowledging this is speculation), Smyrniotis won't leave Forge unless he gets at least a comparable kind of leeway and/or the club's project aligns with his tastes to a comparable level then it's pretty unlikely he will go anywhere any time soon. While we don't know what happened behind the scenes it would explain why Smyrniotis was strongly considered for the Impact before Lossada (my opinion on the subject at the time, posted in another thread, boiled down to ''if his French is ok then why not?'') but was never in the picture after him. His profile might have been interesting but anything I know of Olivier Renard (MTL's sporting director) leads me to think that if Bobby said he would want the same kind of leeway then at Forge would have led to him being quickly written off as a possibility for the job for the foreseeable future.

29 minutes ago, Sal333 said:

Getting a soccer coaching job is not a dance at a rave. It's more like a waltz or a tango. It takes two to dance. Only a couple of years ago Davies revealed that Canadian soccer players were not respected in world soccer. What makes you think it's not the same or worse for Canuck coaches?

I could buy this as factor if we had only been talking of Smyrniotis getting a promotion for, say, two or three years but five? At this stage I am somewhat sceptic this is the only factor...

[Sal333]

4 minutes ago, phil03 said:

 

I could buy this as factor if we had only been talking of Smyrniotis getting a promotion for, say, two or three years but five? At this stage I am somewhat sceptic this is the only factor...

Your skepticism is based on what? How many Canadians are coaching in the MLS? Or in Europe? Asia? South America?

[Unnamed Trialist]

10 minutes ago, phil03 said:

This but also in his case my one concern, and I do acknowledge its speculation, is that while he genuinely wants to move up, he isn't necessarily willing to make the sacrifices in terms of working conditions to make that happen. When podcasts speak on it what they often say is ''oh, but he is really comfortable at Forge, built something great and he really gets to realise his vision with the team, it would really take the right project and condition to make him leave'' which... honestly that's now how things work, not just in Soccer but in life in general.

If you are good at your job then eventually your past accomplishments will get you more leaway in your current position and you'll get to work with more autonomy and/or with things being more tailored to your taste, or at least that's how it is in a healthy organization. Eventually you'll be considered for promotions but if you do get it then you can't expect your past accomplishments to have as much weight in how things will be in your new position, because they were the reason you got the position in the first place. You'll have to prove yourself again if you want the same kind of cushy situation.

IF (once again acknowledging this is speculation), Smyrniotis won't leave Forge unless he gets at least a comparable kind of leeway and/or the club's project aligns with his tastes to a comparable level then it's pretty unlikely he will go anywhere any time soon. While we don't know what happened behind the scenes it would explain why Smyrniotis was strongly considered for the Impact before Lossada (my opinion on the subject at the time, posted in another thread, boiled down to ''if his French is ok then why not?'') but was never in the picture after him. His profile might have been interesting but anything I know of Olivier Renard (MTL's sporting director) leads me to think that if Bobby said he would want the same kind of leeway then at Forge would have led to him being quickly written off as a possibility for the job for the foreseeable future.

I could buy this as factor if we had only been talking of Smyrniotis getting a promotion for, say, two or three years but five? At this stage I am somewhat sceptic this is the only factor...

This is more or less how I see it. I don't mind if say, he has smaller kids, and needs to hold on in Hamilton a bit more. I have no idea. I also have no idea if he's gotten offers. Now maybe, winning in CPL that much, is not a good enough calling card for an MLS position. Or maybe he really has not been pushing that hard. Which is odd, as you say: you mean he turned down an offer for 3 years at 350,000 to coach an MLS team? I think the truth is that he's comfortable. 

This is why I think Pa-Modouh Ka is closer to coaching an MLS team than either Wheeldon or Smyrniotis, you can see the drive and motivation. He may be closer to a NT job. Leaves Pacific for a chance in MLS but settles for a USL team, now is assistant at Charlotte. Within a 2-3 years I think he'll be there.

[phil03]

21 minutes ago, Sal333 said:

Your skepticism is based on what? How many Canadians are coaching in the MLS? Or in Europe? Asia? South America?

As stated above, my scepticism is based on how long we have been talking about this. The very fact that there is indeed some Canadian coaches who found job abroad shows it can be done and considering all the success Smyrniotis had in CPL I think its likely other factors then just nationality were at play here, especially since he apparently has some contacts in the Greek soccer system as well.

14 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

 Which is odd, as you say: you mean he turned down an offer for 3 years at 350,000 to coach an MLS team? I think the truth is that he's comfortable. 

Nah, I don't think things ever got that far with MTL. My educated guess is that in the interview they were discussing how both of them would see the division of tasks/power, so to speak, should Bobby get the job and it quickly became apparent that Smyrniotis saw himself as having more leeway and power in the organization as a whole that Renard was comfortable with, which lead to peg Bobby as a bad fit for working under him, which explain why he wasn't even in consideration after Lossade was fired. Basically just a good old bad interview.

Edited April 20 by phil03

[Aird25]

Was this already posted? 

https://calgarysun.com/sports/wheeldon-a-wanted-man-cavalry-gaffer-shortlisted-for-canadian-mens-team-coaching-job/wcm/65d10f4c-bed2-4fbf-bffa-314c077e3521

[Watchmen]

3 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

This is more or less how I see it. I don't mind if say, he has smaller kids, and needs to hold on in Hamilton a bit more. I have no idea. I also have no idea if he's gotten offers. Now maybe, winning in CPL that much, is not a good enough calling card for an MLS position. Or maybe he really has not been pushing that hard. Which is odd, as you say: you mean he turned down an offer for 3 years at 350,000 to coach an MLS team? I think the truth is that he's comfortable. 

This is why I think Pa-Modouh Ka is closer to coaching an MLS team than either Wheeldon or Smyrniotis, you can see the drive and motivation. He may be closer to a NT job. Leaves Pacific for a chance in MLS but settles for a USL team, now is assistant at Charlotte. Within a 2-3 years I think he'll be there.

Ka also left the CPL to go to Next Pro.  This isn't to start a debate over which league is better, but in some ways I'd say Next Pro is a more challenging environment (you have much less control of your roster) and we've seen MLS clubs hire Next Pro coaches before.  Smyrniotis needs to prove he's a great manager, not a "good manager in a brand new league he understands inside out and knows how to win".  Which is also why I wouldn't want him for the NT job - I just want to see him step up another level and do it again before giving him the reigns to the NT team.  And if he does, I could absolutely see him being the post-WC manager (or, in an emergency scenario, the last minute NT manager for 2026).

[Unnamed Trialist]

4 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

Ka also left the CPL to go to Next Pro.  This isn't to start a debate over which league is better, but in some ways I'd say Next Pro is a more challenging environment (you have much less control of your roster) and we've seen MLS clubs hire Next Pro coaches before.  Smyrniotis needs to prove he's a great manager, not a "good manager in a brand new league he understands inside out and knows how to win".  Which is also why I wouldn't want him for the NT job - I just want to see him step up another level and do it again before giving him the reigns to the NT team.  And if he does, I could absolutely see him being the post-WC manager (or, in an emergency scenario, the last minute NT manager for 2026).

I always thought Ka had a line at the Dallas job, it was reported. Because he left Pacific with no bird in hand, but that was out there. Then they hired that Spanish guy Estévez and Ka rebounded into NextPro. But the point is the same: there are guys who are digging around for something more, and others who are just sifting whatever sand is nearby. 

Also, Ka left the CPL because he was a bit fed up with reffing, the league, then he was not even considered as coach of the year, he felt he was being dicked around.

I don't mind if Bobby or Wheeldon become long term, classic, CPL coaches, it makes no difference to me, and it even has some charm. Like with longtime players. Only don't tell me you are really itching for bigger and better things. 

Edited April 20 by Unnamed Trialist

[Watchmen]

8 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I always thought Ka had a line at the Dallas job, it was reported. Because he left Pacific with no bird in hand, but that was out there. Then they hired that Spanish guy Estévez and Ka rebounded into NextPro.  

I think they interviewed him for it, and he ended up taking their NextPro team?

9 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I don't mind if Bobby or Wheeldon become long term, classic, CPL coaches, it makes no difference to me, and it even has some charm. Like with longtime players. Only don't tell me you are really itching for bigger and better things. 

I don't either.  It's fine.  I understand how special it might be to literally build a club from the ground up. But I don't think that's the guy you then jump straight to the NT either.

[Joe MacCarthy]

2 hours ago, Watchmen said:

I understand how special it might be to literally build a club from the ground up.

 

[Atlantic]

For the record, Bobby is represented by Axia, who represent David, Larin, Laryea, Kone and Cornelius 

[red card]

 

[Kadenge]

2 hours ago, red card said:

 

I suppose the American is Jesse Marsh.

[phil03]

2 hours ago, red card said:

 

I will take whoever is the best fit for our team within our budget. If the person is from the US then I am ok with it, in the same I would be if they would be from, I dunno, Zimbabwe or Cambodia.

EDIT: Not gonna lie, the sheer fact OneSoccer even need to ask themselves wether nationality matter bugs me a bit here...

Edited April 22 by phil03

[BearcatSA]

4 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

I suppose the American is Jesse Marsh.

And hopefully not Bob Bradley or Bruce Arena 😜

[Aird25]

33 minutes ago, phil03 said:

I will take whoever is the best fit for our team within our budget. If the person is from the US then I am ok with it, in the same I would be if they would be from, I dunno, Zimbabwe or Cambodia.

EDIT: Not gonna lie, the sheer fact OneSoccer even need to ask themselves wether nationality matter bugs me a bit here...

They all said the best candidate available. What could possibly bug you about that. The fact the question was posed with obvious intent on disputing it?

Edited April 22 by Aird25

[phil03]

20 minutes ago, Aird25 said:

They all said the best candidate available. What could possibly bug you about that. The fact the question was posed with obvious intent on disputing it?

Honestly? The fact that they present it as a real question instead of something that ought to go without saying.

[Unnamed Trialist]

2 hours ago, Kadenge said:

I suppose the American is Jesse Marsh.

Isn't Bradley free?

[Watchmen]

1 hour ago, phil03 said:

Honestly? The fact that they present it as a real question instead of something that ought to go without saying.

I've literally heard die hard Canada fans say "anyone but an American".  Much like if the best candidate for the Mexican was American or the best candidate for the US team was Mexican, I don't think those two programs would do it.

[toontownman]

I'm not that keen on Marsch. I think he is incredibly overrated. 

Not knowing the budget, maybe he is the best bet. He has certain got a great experience, including domestic experience in Canadian football and top level in the PL and coaching in Europe. We also know he was desperate for the job in the past.

I think certain sections of support would turn quickly if we do badly against the states. The wind up from the states fans win or lose "well it's because you have an American coach" would be tiresome too. 

Still provided whomever it is does well no one will be complaining.

It's exciting news though and while I may have missed it (don't burst my bubble) the "no Canadians" comment, does that rule out Biello?? Say it's true. Also looks like we could very well have a new manager by early may. Lots of time to prep and get in contact with players etc.

[gigi riva]

I wonder who the 5 canditates are