Next CanMNT manager (Herdman to TFC)

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 hour ago, jhoops__ said:

The lack of cash for a decent coach is pure bullshit.  Herdman was making $700k and that is surely enough for a decent coach.  

Was that his salary, or the pack designated for the entire coaching staff, with assistants? To me it seems high for just him, and low for the whole coaching staff.

In any case, we could find excellent candidates for this 2 year period up to the World Cup, for a sum similar, plus another half million for the assistants and technical team. Adding bonuses for results accordingly. 

Biello really botched that line-up and it was T&T's manifest weakness that did not expose it.

[gator]

5 minutes ago, Ivan said:

Yes, and now that we've qualified for the COPA, according to Westhead and his unnamed sources, we're fucked!

With all of the hype for this high profile tournament we are now locked into his position about us being worse off the more we win is going to look pretty foolish! This tournament is huge and will receive all kinds of media coverage, we are going against the best player in the world in match day one, is he going to be doubling down telling international press colleagues we shouldn't be there?

[jhoops__]

Seriously, if we can’t secure some decent marketing relationships for this 2 year run we should just close up shop.   

[TOcanadafan]

59 minutes ago, gator said:

I am not a huge fan of Biello but I think he deserves the Copa matches and that will give us a larger sample size to determine whether he is up to the job, a tough task awaits, if he over achieves in the truly daunting set of matches he must be considered!  I don't expect that to happen but 4 high quality matches, including the Netherlands friendly will give us a much better idea of what he can or can't do with his roster!

I'd agree with you if Biello wasn't a part of the previous regime.  He had a better knowledge than anyone of the inner dynamics, needs, qualities and deficiencies of the team, so there should be no grace period to see if he can figure things out.   But I also agree with you, that unfortunately, circumstances might force us to accept him for the time being.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

55 minutes ago, jhoops__ said:

Of course I’ve been paying attention, I’m on this board.   Paying a good coach has never been an issue and Priestman makes a good wage with the Women so we know a pre determined allotment is allocated.   

Let's get real then if you know the backdrop to all this. There is much more money in men's national team soccer than in women's pretty much anywhere except Canada. The sort of high profile coach on the men's side many fans crave would be looking for a lot more money than Bev Priestman is likely to be on with the CWNT.

Given there is pressure on the CSA to spend equally on the two programs, even if the CSA was in better shape financially than they are right now and were not cynically stringing along a guy they already had on the payroll to do the CMNT job on a budget for them with an interim tag, anybody who genuinely thought Carlo Ancelotti was ever a possibility was dreaming in technicolour.

If Mauro Biello does reasonably OK at the Copa the CSA is highly likely to hire him and there's not a lot any of us can do about that rather than hope it works out OK like the Herdman hire did.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

8 minutes ago, jhoops__ said:

Seriously, if we can’t secure some decent marketing relationships for this 2 year run we should just close up shop.   

If they do, the money will go to CSB to prop up CanPL clubs that no CMNT players currently play for rather than to the CSA. Not sure what's difficult to understand about that angle. Victor Montagliani & Co signed away the family silver in national team program terms back in 2018 for up to twenty years.

The actual possible way out of the financial crisis is ripping off the grassroots with a huge registration fees increase. I'm not in the loop enough to know if it's likely to be possible to convince the provincial associations to go along with that but having been in soccer meetings in the past where certain amateur and youth club representatives would go completely mental about all the money leaving London, Ont to flow into OSA and CSA coffers for pretty much diddlysquat in return, I'm skeptical. 

[toontownman]

While it's fair to say there would have been a Herdman hang over and trouble off pitch with the CSA, Biello has done bare minimum if that on the pitch. Jamaica away being a highlight. 

We can celebrate yesterday but we also arguably should have been playing the States in the Nation's League semi and the Copa play in shouldnt have been needed.

We should have got past T & T and we have a far superior squad that should have made it easier. It was a laboured and lethargic performance. 

I respect Biello's work for us but if he is the answer then we fumbled and mixed up the questions and the biggest opportunity (Copa and World Cup) in our history. 

He has been involved since 2018. The players know him inside and out and likewise. We need a reset and new inspiring leadership, someone players respect not potentially take advantage of, Biello clearly isn't that. (pure conjecture off pitch)

[costarg]

45 minutes ago, TOcanadafan said:

I'd agree with you if Biello wasn't a part of the previous regime.  He had a better knowledge than anyone of the inner dynamics, needs, qualities and deficiencies of the team, so there should be no grace period to see if he can figure things out.   But I also agree with you, that unfortunately, circumstances might force us to accept him for the time being.

Issue here is that he was also completely sold on Herdman's vision and system.  He wasn't seeing the deficiencies, he was only seeing what Herdman saw as "solutions".  He continued with the same formation, lineup and mistakes.  Guys out of club positions, 2 man mid, 2 strikers.

Credit: at least he moved on from Vitoria and Borjan.

[phil03]

Like, I don't think anyone is genuinely contesting that money is preventing us from getting the coach we deserve. However, I'd argue that there is a space on the spectrum of competency, so to speak, between that and Biello. 

We might not get the coach we deserve but we can probably get significantly closer to that then Biello for more or less the same price if we play our cards right.

Edited March 24 by phil03

[TGAA_Star]

Definitely turning this club around

[costarg]

I was ok with Biello getting the nod for interim.  He's a bright and nice guy, I felt he'd figure it out.  He's had several chances and it does not look good.  The guys don't look like they know what is expected of them, they either don't have or don't understand the instructions and system.  It's a complete mess out there, the only thing that saved us is the individual talent, there was no "team".  It should not have been close, and could easily have gone the wrong way had they converted even one of their opportunities.

[Stryker911]

How about Paul Stalteri as a candidate? He has been coaching for several years now. Knows the role and the players. Prior to Davies, he was the most decorated Canadian of all time. 

[nolando]

1 minute ago, Stryker911 said:

How about Paul Stalteri as a candidate? He has been coaching for several years now. Knows the role and the players. Prior to Davies, he was the most decorated Canadian of all time. 

Random but I remember seeing him, quite a few years back, in Burnaby at what is now the Christine Sinclair Centre, marching out a very promising group of U17 national team players. He has certainly paid his dues and should have more clout, domestically and internationally, than most candidates

[dyslexic nam]

12 minutes ago, Stryker911 said:

How about Paul Stalteri as a candidate? He has been coaching for several years now. Knows the role and the players. Prior to Davies, he was the most decorated Canadian of all time. 

Not saying he couldn’t do it, but I want someone who knows the job of coaching and is elite at that specific task.   Being a high level player is simply not a sufficient condition to show that.   I have great respect for the f at that r continue to find roles for CMNT mainstays, but for the head coach job I want the best person for the job.   

[Stryker911]

49 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

Not saying he couldn’t do it, but I want someone who knows the job of coaching and is elite at that specific task.   Being a high level player is simply not a sufficient condition to show that.   I have great respect for the f at that r continue to find roles for CMNT mainstays, but for the head coach job I want the best person for the job.   

I thought about that as well. But looking at a guy like Xavi, who went from the Qatari league to Barcelona is a good example of a top end player getting a high level manager job with little experience.

[Watchmen]

I remember reading during the African Nations Cup this year that the Nigeria head coach was only making $500k. And let's be honest, that's a much bigger and high profile job. Just an indicator to me that you can probably get a decent head coach for less than we're expecting.

And let's face it, Canada's big advantage when hiring a new coach isn't going to be any sort of financial leverage. It's that they're participating in two major tournaments in the next two years. It's the opportunity for an up and coming manager to pad his profile with a very short term commitment, and I have to think that's enticing to someone of quality.

[Watchmen]

3 hours ago, jhoops__ said:

Seriously, if we can’t secure some decent marketing relationships for this 2 year run we should just close up shop.   

More sponsorship is irrelevant, because the money won't go to the CSA. It will go to the CSB.

[Kadenge]

4 hours ago, gator said:

 

 

I am not a huge fan of Biello but I think he deserves the Copa matches and that will give us a larger sample size to determine whether he is up to the job, a tough task awaits, if he over achieves in the truly daunting set of matches he must be considered!  I don't expect that to happen but 4 high quality matches, including the Netherlands friendly will give us a much better idea of what he can or can't do with his roster!

Gator, we don't  have the luxury of time on our side. 2 yrs to WC and given  we have struggled to play friendlies in the past, when would the new coach get an opportunity to work with the squad if not now? I don't think we can "waste" games vs quality opponents: Netherlands, USA, Argentina, Chile & Peru. Biello has been with the team for 5 yrs (not a newbie) and been HC v Japan, JamaicaX2 and T&T. That's more than enough games to evaluate his performances given the runway facing us.

 

[Sal333]

4 hours ago, gator said:

With all of the hype for this high profile tournament we are now locked into his position about us being worse off the more we win is going to look pretty foolish! This tournament is huge and will receive all kinds of media coverage, we are going against the best player in the world in match day one, is he going to be doubling down telling international press colleagues we shouldn't be there?

I borrowed @MtlMario's crystal ball and it predicted that Messi will be injured for the Copa.

[Unnamed Trialist]

35 minutes ago, Stryker911 said:

I thought about that as well. But looking at a guy like Xavi, who went from the Qatari league to Barcelona is a good example of a top end player getting a high level manager job with little experience.

And boy does it show!

I am a great admirer of Xavi as a player, and as a person. He's really a lovely guy and has a really authentic character. But he has no experience. He was under negative pressure in Qatar, there was no demand, the level was low, then on purely sentimental grounds we give him this massive club and project. And he blows it constantly. There are times it is pure embarrassment, and we are letting him get experience on the job, on our dime. Amazing we won a league, amazing we are in quarter finals of Champions, but it is not enough. We don't play well at all, it is unrecognizable. Then he has his dumbass brother as his assistant who has even less idea, he was working in the family business, the family has a stand in a market outside of Barcelona, I know exactly where: go back to the damn flower stand and leave us alone, brother of Xavi. 

To the point, rant over: very few great players work out as coaches. It is a special breed. The smarter ones are those who were elite players, or at least very strong, but are satisfied to be journeyman coaches, because at least that ensures long-term survival, and a solid income. Because the top players who are also top managers, like Cruyff, there are very few of those, too few for it to be meaningful. If you follow any country you know who they are, they are in lower 1st and 2nd division, they get fired, they save teams from relegation or promote, they have major ups and downs. But they can have long careers and really are admirable. 

I think we have the money to hire one of those guys for Canada. Thomas Christensen would be a perfect example.

[Chad_Impact]

I agree, don't think Biello is the man for the job. If the team sets up and looks like it did yesterday at the Copa America, we're going to have a rough time. 

The question is though, even if we have the money to get a new coach, do we have the time to get one in before the Copa, or even the Netherlands friendly? This new regime would need at least a camp or two to implement a new style and ideas. 

Edited March 25 by Chad_Impact

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

2 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

Not saying he couldn’t do it, but I want someone who knows the job of coaching and is elite at that specific task.   Being a high level player is simply not a sufficient condition to show that.   I have great respect for the f at that r continue to find roles for CMNT mainstays, but for the head coach job I want the best person for the job.   

On Stalteri

We risk him bringing even more Tottenhamitis to Canada (look a Kane at Bayern.)

 

More seriously, I think we do need someone who has experience with top players. Someone with whom they can start from a place of respect and who can get them to buy into a system.

I think we continued to struggle with people doing their own thing and not knowing roles.

A coach also has to have the tactical knowledge to make a system that works.

Finding the money for one with both is a struggle but I do think we need to move on.

Edited March 24 by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[gator]

30 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

Gator, we don't  have the luxury of time on our side. 2 yrs to WC and given  we have struggled to play friendlies in the past, when would the new coach get an opportunity to work with the squad if not now? I don't think we can "waste" games vs quality opponents: Netherlands, USA, Argentina, Chile & Peru. Biello has been with the team for 5 yrs (not a newbie) and been HC v Japan, JamaicaX2 and T&T. That's more than enough games to evaluate his performances given the runway facing us.

 

We don't know what has been budgeted for a new coaching hire so it is only going to be hypothetical at this point, if there is a good coach who ticks all of the boxes including financially who is well vetted and willing to take the challenge, the sooner the better to bring him in! I have previously posted that I would prefer a foreign coach with a knowledge of Concacaf, I am not sure if that person is in the pipeline now and if so it would absolutely make sense to hire that person before these important matches! I don't think we need to panic in the hire either, there will be enough matches for a new coach next year if Biello or anyone else fails miserably, the dynamics of available coaches changes all of the time!

[nolando]

2 hours ago, nolando said:

Random but I remember seeing him, quite a few years back, in Burnaby at what is now the Christine Sinclair Centre, marching out a very promising group of U17 national team players. He has certainly paid his dues and should have more clout, domestically and internationally, than most candidates

https://www.torontofc.ca/news/8-players-called-canada-u-17-camp

Not as star-studded as expected, in hindsight. Johnny and Ben Paton were there. 

[Jack1997]

We need a well established coach who’s reputation is greater than Alphonso’s whether that be as a player of manager. I know these are unrealistic expectations but I think this is what would be best situation possible.