Next CanMNT manager (Herdman to TFC)

[RS]

51 minutes ago, cornerkick said:

another manager available:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2024/feb/16/south-korea-sack-jurgen-klinsmann-leadership-failure

[Vasi]

1 hour ago, Ally McCoist said:

Here me out lads...

It all depends on how offended he was by Herdman's post game comments. 🤪

[JAVIERF]

9 hours ago, cornerkick said:

another manager available:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2024/feb/16/south-korea-sack-jurgen-klinsmann-leadership-failure

That's the way to go with these footie privileged mercenaries.  Of course he had a "mécénat" a patron who paid Jürgen's wages,   Rudi Voller is twice the best coach than Klinsmann for example.

 

 

Martin O'Neill for the Canucks?   That's leadership 

[Ally McCoist]

 

[JAVIERF]

Thierry Henry can't even run a take- away Rôti Asado , pasties and french fries shop for his life!  It is expensive and bad.  Canada needs a football mind 

[Unnamed Trialist]

I agree Henry is not really a proven coach, but sometimes a team needs a different kind of leadership. 

We are at a point with our guys where we need our talent advantage in certain matches to show up. The mentality counts too.

We need our stars to go out and maul the on-paper inferior opponent, boss them. I don't think Henry would impede that, I think he'd encourage it. Then, vs more difficult rivals, I am not entirely sure we are ever going to find a coach, at what we pay, who is going to outsmart Argentina at Copa America.

[An Observer]

43 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I agree Henry is not really a proven coach, but sometimes a team needs a different kind of leadership. 

We are at a point with our guys where we need our talent advantage in certain matches to show up. The mentality counts too.

We need our stars to go out and maul the on-paper inferior opponent, boss them. I don't think Henry would impede that, I think he'd encourage it. Then, vs more difficult rivals, I am not entirely sure we are ever going to find a coach, at what we pay, who is going to outsmart Argentina at Copa America.

Considering what I saw at Montreal with Henry in charge and what others have said on here that no more about that than me, I would rather have Biello stay in charge than have Henry as manager. And that is saying a lot as I don’t rate Biello at all

[Unnamed Trialist]

31 minutes ago, An Observer said:

Considering what I saw at Montreal with Henry in charge and what others have said on here that no more about that than me, I would rather have Biello stay in charge than have Henry as manager. And that is saying a lot as I don’t rate Biello at all

Henry was in charge at Montreal very early on, right after his playing days, many years ago. Then, just before, he was not overly successful in Ligue 1, they gave him twenty games-- though a lot of classic sides have struggled lately in France, Marseille, Lyon, and his Monaco as well. Perhaps his time with Martínez in Belgium might have been a better learning experience, not be in charge but just support.

He's smart, a bit arrogant (though I think it is a sort of style he has, he is not as haughty as he plays, he was actually humble and discreet at Barça), and certainly has some idea of what playing well and excelling might mean. 

If he came in with a sharp assistant, who could crunch the tactics and rivals well, he could work. Biello is a lump, he is just a caretaker. Our guys would go out and win for Henry, no such notion exists with Biello.

Edited February 19 by Unnamed Trialist

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, An Observer said:

Considering what I saw at Montreal with Henry in charge and what others have said on here that no more about that than me, I would rather have Biello stay in charge than have Henry as manager. And that is saying a lot as I don’t rate Biello at all

I know Henry didn't live up to expectations, but this seems like a bit much for me. Biello has a somewhat respectable MLS record and he's a long time assistant, but the man has zero charisma and I cannot see how Beillo can inspire this group. The players are going to have to inspire themselves.

Say what you want about Henry, but he's one of the best forwards of all time and that alone should be inspiring to our best players. It's international football where the tactics don't matter so much. He cannot be a tactical dunce or hurt us with his decisions (a la Biello subs vs Jamaica), but if he can just be average tactically and then light a fire under our best players to perform, maybe the rest takes care of itself.

[Unnamed Trialist]

16 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I know Henry didn't live up to expectations, but this seems like a bit much for me. Biello has a somewhat respectable MLS record and he's a long time assistant, but the man has zero charisma and I cannot see how Beillo can inspire this group. The players are going to have to inspire themselves.

Say what you want about Henry, but he's one of the best forwards of all time and that alone should be inspiring to our best players. It's international football where the tactics don't matter so much. He cannot be a tactical dunce or hurt us with his decisions (a la Biello subs vs Jamaica), but if he can just be average tactically and then light a fire under our best players to perform, maybe the rest takes care of itself.

This is where I am at. 

I appreciate we needed a bit of a tactical and mental condition to qualify for Qatar, Herdman was ideal. We could even argue that he got Belgium right, and we lost unfairly. So no problem there. 

But now we are into a cycle of only tournament football, and few friendlies in between. We want to go to Copa America and get out of the group. We want to get to Gold Cup finals. We want to get out of the group in 2026. It is not league play, it is one-off inspirational play, as long as nothing happens that is objectively bonehead (what, benching Phonsie?) our players should be able to step up on their own once on the field.

So I agree with you, tactics do not matter so much, except of course in the crunch, in a final, in a knockout match. Here is where you have to have some really solid assistants and trust them too. But even Herdman, in the Gold Cup quarter final: we were up 2-1 m 110, with 11 minutes left vs a depleted US side, and he had no solution for holding on, he couldn't do it. There were really no tactical or in-game nous at all there.

Edited February 19 by Unnamed Trialist

[Shway]

I'm one of the biggest Henry fans. He's the reason I'm a Gooner today. He is one of the best forwards of all time and he is considered a luminary person in football because of his achievements!

But time and time again, he has shown that his on-field abilities to lead through his play hasn't translated to him being capable of leading a team as the coach. The way how I've seen him on the touch line towards his players is something we don't need at this moment in time. And for those reasons I think "at what cost?". At what cost would he come to the CSA that would make sense for the program. Our current group of players don't need the inspiration that they once did as they reached the ultimate prize. 

[InglewoodJack]

Don't want Henry coaching us, especially this team. His big issue with Montreal was not being able to maximize what he can get out of players who aren't world class talents. Herdman's biggest tactical blunders happened when he couldn't maximize his roster and had Davies just go out there and played hero ball. I think we'd see even more of that under Henry. Davies is the only player talented enough to hang with Henry, the other ones just need to get out of his way. Would take Smyrniotis over him if it was an either or choice. My guess is he'd get players excited to go to their first camp and then demoralized when they realize that the all time great coaching your team thinks you suck because you're at best a Championship callibre player.

[Shway]

18 hours ago, red card said:

Manager: Sources have confirmed some players have campaigned for the Forge man to be given the job.

 

And I'm back on this guys train.

I think what Canada needs is someone who is a good coach, and already knows the Canadian player pool. And by know, I don't mean personally like Larin, Laryea or Buchanan, but knows from watching them because they have a keen interest in Canadian players.

Watching the AFC and seeing how Qatar went from absolute shit in the WC, GC  to continental Champion with a manager that has spent the past 6 years in their domestic league. 

I'll take some sort of familiarity of the Canadian player over a name brand coach who will come at a cost and less pride. 

 

[BearcatSA]

I think a manager has to make some tough decisions about who starts and who sits in order to have a balanced side.  I fear that Biello is going to do the same thing that even other posters here do with their projected starting line ups:  have all the big time favs starting in some formation even though it undermines balance in the side.

We gave up a crippling second goal vs Jamaica on the counterattack because we had too many guys pushed up and out of position trying to be heroes on the attack.  Hopefully that lesson is learned. 

[Fresh Prince of MTL]

3 hours ago, Obinna said:

I know Henry didn't live up to expectations, but this seems like a bit much for me. Biello has a somewhat respectable MLS record and he's a long time assistant, but the man has zero charisma and I cannot see how Beillo can inspire this group. The players are going to have to inspire themselves.

Say what you want about Henry, but he's one of the best forwards of all time and that alone should be inspiring to our best players. It's international football where the tactics don't matter so much. He cannot be a tactical dunce or hurt us with his decisions (a la Biello subs vs Jamaica), but if he can just be average tactically and then light a fire under our best players to perform, maybe the rest takes care of itself.

As someone who watched nearly every Impact/CF Mtl game, he will hurt us with his sub decisions or lack there of, that was one of his major flaws.

[toontownman]

Thought I had joked this one into existence for a minute..

https://www.newcastleworld.com/sport/football/newcastle-united/former-newcastle-united-and-sunderland-boss-keen-on-shock-international-management-role-amid-saudi-interest-4524975

A nervous quick read and blood pressure was raised.

[prairiecanuck]

On 2/19/2024 at 12:44 PM, Fresh Prince of MTL said:

As someone who watched nearly every Impact/CF Mtl game, he will hurt us with his sub decisions or lack there of, that was one of his major flaws.

So when I look at the money MTL spent on the team when Henry was coach they had the 19th highest payroll in the league.  When I look at the roster and compare it to other MLS teams, was it a team you expected to be a top team?  You can't make chicken salad out of Chicken Sh#t.

Henry who played with the top clubs of Europe and a top national team knows nothing about football.  He worked with some of the top managers in the game.  The team meetings to break down other teams.  He was part of it.  The tactics top managers used to break down other teams.  He was part of it.  Yet, some of you are convinced this man knows nothing about football.

Did he have trouble relating to players and make some mistakes as an inexperienced manager.  I'm sure he did.  You learn through failure.  Is there a big enough sample size to suggest he can't be a successful manager?  Not in my opinion.

We see Davies at times trying to do too much when he's on the ball.  Like it or not, when the critic of a top players game is coming from Henry vs Biello it's going to go be received differently by the player based off of reputation and respect.

I'm not sure if Henry is the man for the job or not, but I'm not going to summarily dismiss his candidacy because of his time with the Impact. 

[Kadenge]

1 hour ago, prairiecanuck said:

So when I look at the money MTL spent on the team when Henry was coach they had the 19th highest payroll in the league.  When I look at the roster and compare it to other MLS teams, was it a team you expected to be a top team?  You can't make chicken salad out of Chicken Sh#t.

Henry who played with the top clubs of Europe and a top national team knows nothing about football.  He worked with some of the top managers in the game.  The team meetings to break down other teams.  He was part of it.  The tactics top managers used to break down other teams.  He was part of it.  Yet, some of you are convinced this man knows nothing about football.

Did he have trouble relating to players and make some mistakes as an inexperienced manager.  I'm sure he did.  You learn through failure.  Is there a big enough sample size to suggest he can't be a successful manager?  Not in my opinion.

We see Davies at times trying to do too much when he's on the ball.  Like it or not, when the critic of a top players game is coming from Henry vs Biello it's going to go be received differently by the player based off of reputation and respect.

I'm not sure if Henry is the man for the job or not, but I'm not going to summarily dismiss his candidacy because of his time with the Impact. 

Good points. The CSA has got to get this done asap after the T&T game. There's only 2 yrs to go until WC26 and given the financial situation, they have to get it right. No money to hire and fire. Perhaps Henry is the guy, but there are red flags being raised. The quality of our squad screams for a quality mgr but the CSA can't even hire a GS. 

[MtlMario]

Maybe someone who works in HR can explain what happened to candidates #2,3,4,5 etc etc for the GS job. It can not be possible that all got jobs or all of a sudden they are not interested anymore.☹️

[Obinna]

2 hours ago, prairiecanuck said:

So when I look at the money MTL spent on the team when Henry was coach they had the 19th highest payroll in the league.  When I look at the roster and compare it to other MLS teams, was it a team you expected to be a top team?  You can't make chicken salad out of Chicken Sh#t.

Henry who played with the top clubs of Europe and a top national team knows nothing about football.  He worked with some of the top managers in the game.  The team meetings to break down other teams.  He was part of it.  The tactics top managers used to break down other teams.  He was part of it.  Yet, some of you are convinced this man knows nothing about football.

Did he have trouble relating to players and make some mistakes as an inexperienced manager.  I'm sure he did.  You learn through failure.  Is there a big enough sample size to suggest he can't be a successful manager?  Not in my opinion.

We see Davies at times trying to do too much when he's on the ball.  Like it or not, when the critic of a top players game is coming from Henry vs Biello it's going to go be received differently by the player based off of reputation and respect.

I'm not sure if Henry is the man for the job or not, but I'm not going to summarily dismiss his candidacy because of his time with the Impact. 

This is exactly what I am thinking too. Henry is definitely someone with the authority to relate to Davies or understand the psychology of Davies. At times, I think Davies struggles to be "the guy" for this team, just in terms of balancing the responsibility of that status with not overcomplicating things. Maybe under Henry Davies will come into his own as an offensive weapon and a leader. And with Davies seemingly moving to Madrid, the influence of Henry could be just what he needs as his status as a player grows.

The other player that comes to mind is Jonathan David. Again, Henry would be someone I think David could thrive under, just by vitrue of working with him to become a better goal scorer and player. It could even boost his club play too, getting to work with Henry, who knows. 

Again, I acknowledge that some of his player relationships with the Impact were reportedly strained, but the national team is an entirely different climate from a pretty average MLS team with players of a relatively humble skill level.

We have 2 or 3 game breakers in the national team (Davies, David, Buchanan) who are all young and soon entering their prime. Someone like Henry is probably going to inspire and challenge them to be at their best, moreso than some random South American coach. I am fine with us living and dying by these 3 players, so if we get a coach that gets the best out of each one of them, I think I am willing to let the rest of the chips fall where they may.

[InglewoodJack]

2 hours ago, prairiecanuck said:

So when I look at the money MTL spent on the team when Henry was coach they had the 19th highest payroll in the league.  When I look at the roster and compare it to other MLS teams, was it a team you expected to be a top team?  You can't make chicken salad out of Chicken Sh#t.

Henry who played with the top clubs of Europe and a top national team knows nothing about football.  He worked with some of the top managers in the game.  The team meetings to break down other teams.  He was part of it.  The tactics top managers used to break down other teams.  He was part of it.  Yet, some of you are convinced this man knows nothing about football.

Did he have trouble relating to players and make some mistakes as an inexperienced manager.  I'm sure he did.  You learn through failure.  Is there a big enough sample size to suggest he can't be a successful manager?  Not in my opinion.

We see Davies at times trying to do too much when he's on the ball.  Like it or not, when the critic of a top players game is coming from Henry vs Biello it's going to go be received differently by the player based off of reputation and respect.

I'm not sure if Henry is the man for the job or not, but I'm not going to summarily dismiss his candidacy because of his time with the Impact. 

He wasn't very good with Monaco as well, and as a kicker, IIRC, didn't he turn down the France Women's job because he hoped the USMNT would hire him? We don't want a guy who wants to coach them, but that's another story...

There are videos of him yelling at players during his time at Montreal because they weren't executing these 1000 IQ plays you see in top leagues. Sure it was a bad club, second coaching gig, so on, but he hasn't coached another club since.

My issue with Henry boils down to this: say we're down 2-1 to T&T at '75 and David and Larin have spent all game doing nothing. Does Henry run them into the ground hoping something happens, or does he go to his bench and call in Theo Bair or Jacob Schaffelburg, etc.? Those are the decisions our head coach needs to make- maximizing the performances from our guys who play at relatively lower levels and ensuring that you're not just relying on our best 3 or 4 players.

If anything, I think Davies would greatly benefit from having Henry coach him- they speak the same language of play, so to speak, and Davies may be our only player who could've played alongside prime Henry. It's how he would handle the rest of our team that concerns me.

[costarg]

2 hours ago, prairiecanuck said:

So when I look at the money MTL spent on the team when Henry was coach they had the 19th highest payroll in the league.  When I look at the roster and compare it to other MLS teams, was it a team you expected to be a top team?  You can't make chicken salad out of Chicken Sh#t.

Henry who played with the top clubs of Europe and a top national team knows nothing about football.  He worked with some of the top managers in the game.  The team meetings to break down other teams.  He was part of it.  The tactics top managers used to break down other teams.  He was part of it.  Yet, some of you are convinced this man knows nothing about football.

Did he have trouble relating to players and make some mistakes as an inexperienced manager.  I'm sure he did.  You learn through failure.  Is there a big enough sample size to suggest he can't be a successful manager?  Not in my opinion.

We see Davies at times trying to do too much when he's on the ball.  Like it or not, when the critic of a top players game is coming from Henry vs Biello it's going to go be received differently by the player based off of reputation and respect.

I'm not sure if Henry is the man for the job or not, but I'm not going to summarily dismiss his candidacy because of his time with the Impact. 

No offence, but I feel you didn't watch or are severely underestimating the situation.  No one mentioned lack of football knowledge.  The biggest stand out was the unhinged yelling at players.  Not talking about Mourinho level stuff, this was rabid yelling and insults.  He'd degrade players during media interviews as well.  He didn't have anyone's back, nothing about it was constructive, it didn't make the teams or players better.

Also, it isn't just his time with the Impact, same thing happened in Monaco, his track record AS COACH is not that impressive.  He as not proved or accomplished much.

There was very little rotation, he had a massive dog house just like Losada, that shit does not work with this generation.

His issue is he doesn't understand relationships and how to get the best out of someone.  It isn't a question of being an inexperienced manager, he's had good coaches as examples.  He doesn't have the instinct, that is not an easy thing to learn.  Just like all the courses in the world won't make someone a good boss.  Similar comparison would be Michael Jordan, everyone knows he would not make a good coach. 

We cannot judge coaches based on their playing careers, this has been proven over and over.    

[Bigandy]

I think a herdman/henry duo would be great. 

Let herdman motivate the guys and henry provide technical advice to our players. 

Henry at monaco was always a tough situation. poor club form, tons of injuries and its his first gig. It seems like the lack of emotional connection extended into his time with montreal. 

My hope is that hes learned a bunch of management skills as an assistant with belguim. Maybe he understands how different international management is to club. 

Henry just seems like a great guy to have as an assistant, but maybe not as the main guy. 

[Obinna]

51 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

He wasn't very good with Monaco as well, and as a kicker, IIRC, didn't he turn down the France Women's job because he hoped the USMNT would hire him? We don't want a guy who wants to coach them, but that's another story...

There are videos of him yelling at players during his time at Montreal because they weren't executing these 1000 IQ plays you see in top leagues. Sure it was a bad club, second coaching gig, so on, but he hasn't coached another club since.

My issue with Henry boils down to this: say we're down 2-1 to T&T at '75 and David and Larin have spent all game doing nothing. Does Henry run them into the ground hoping something happens, or does he go to his bench and call in Theo Bair or Jacob Schaffelburg, etc.? Those are the decisions our head coach needs to make- maximizing the performances from our guys who play at relatively lower levels and ensuring that you're not just relying on our best 3 or 4 players.

If anything, I think Davies would greatly benefit from having Henry coach him- they speak the same language of play, so to speak, and Davies may be our only player who could've played alongside prime Henry. It's how he would handle the rest of our team that concerns me.

This is a very legitimate concern, but a big part of me thinks it's a worthwhile tradeoff. I am okay with relying on our best 3 or 4 players and under utilizing our subs if Henry is getting the most out of the star players. The make up of our team is such that we only have a couple of elite players anyways and elite players win games. Our depth players may be in great form or developing nicely, but there's still a massive drop off from David to Bair, or Davies to Schaffleburg.

In an ideal world I would much perfer a balanced team, but we cannot build a team we are stuck with the players we have, by and large. We cannot go out and buy players. So for this team, the idea of Henry in theory could possibly work. It could also be a disaster, but again show me what other options there are. I like the Bobby idea still, but it's not an obvious slam dunk either. Maybe an Henry/Bobby tandem would be interesting, but would he leave Forge for an assistant role? And Henry may just perfer his own support staff. 

[Shway]

Henry has an arrogance to him (rightfully so) and I saw it on the touch line many times - not only at Montreal.

Its almost as if he has this sense that he can put some gear on today and show them how it's supposed to be done because it's "so simple"....(edit: exactly what @InglewoodJack was referring to)

If he's coming to the CSA at Herdman + prices, I would suggest that the CSA take a hard pass and reserve those funds for additional camps and friendlies.

We don't need someone who just wants a job because they have been successful to get one elsewhere to come in and demand a high salary, have zero pride for the country, and then subsequently have a built in excuse that there isn't enough camps/preparation.

I can see it already. 

Edited February 21 by Shway