Next CanMNT manager (Herdman to TFC)

[Bigandy]

40 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Good post.

I find myself stuck between "Yes Bobby doesn't jump out as the man to take the CMNT to new heights" and "Bobby is our best hope for a CPL-coach to jump a level".

Now, maybe the CMNT job shouldn't be the place to test it out. Maybe a club in MLS or elsewhere would be more appropriate. But then I keep coming back to the so-called fact that he's already worked with multiple CanMNT players and he's supposedly well respected. Then I think about the titles he's won in a league that does have a decent level of parity. Then I think about how a good coach (or player) sometimes just needs the right opportunity - but then I go right back to "the CMNT job is too important to grant such an opportunity to a CPL coach". Then rinse and repeat, basically.  

I think both are true. Bobby is the cpl's best hope but he isnt the man to take CMNT to new heights. 

Which CMNT players has he worked with? Was it just at youth levels? 

As for titles, I hate to say it but winning a title in the CPL is way easier than any other league mathmatically. beating 7 teams vs beating 19-30 teams (depending on the league). 

For a CMNT call up, a CPL player has to be absolutely dominant and even then may not be good enough. Same thing for bobby. He would have to show some otherworldly tactical skills to warrant a CMNT call IMO.

[Obinna]

3 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

I think both are true. Bobby is the cpl's best hope but he isnt the man to take CMNT to new heights. 

Which CMNT players has he worked with? Was it just at youth levels? 

As for titles, I hate to say it but winning a title in the CPL is way easier than any other league mathmatically. beating 7 teams vs beating 19-30 teams (depending on the league). 

For a CMNT call up, a CPL player has to be absolutely dominant and even then may not be good enough. Same thing for bobby. He would have to show some otherworldly tactical skills to warrant a CMNT call IMO.

Well for starters everyone who has gone through Sigma pre-2019- so Larin, Laryea, Buchanan - then obviously anyone who passed through Forge. Now that I have looked through myself it really is only those 3 core players - unless I am missing anyone obvious. Players like Tristan Borges, Kyle Bekker and Manjakar James all passed through Sigma and Forge, but none are likely to factor into the national team this cycle. Poku likewise, but being a very young player who had that trial at Hacken - he may be someone who gets into the pool come 2026, but right now he's not in there obviously.

Either way, maybe I overemphazied the "working with Camnt players" factor. Wheeldon has worked with Zator, Waterman, and Loturi, plus Pepple which is probably has as much/little chance as Poku. I get that none of those guys are core in the way Larin/Buchanan/Laryea are, but still...it's not a big list. 

[Bigandy]

8 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Well for starters everyone who has gone through Sigma pre-2019- so Larin, Laryea, Buchanan - then obviously anyone who passed through Forge. Now that I have looked through myself it really is only those 3 core players - unless I am missing anyone obvious. Players like Tristan Borges, Kyle Bekker and Manjakar James all passed through Sigma and Forge, but none are likely to factor into the national team this cycle. Poku likewise, but being a very young player who had that trial at Hacken - he may be someone who gets into the pool come 2026, but right now he's not in there obviously.

Either way, maybe I overemphazied the "working with Camnt players" factor. Wheeldon has worked with Zator, Waterman, and Loturi, plus Pepple which is probably has as much/little chance as Poku. I get that none of those guys are core in the way Larin/Buchanan/Laryea are, but still...it's not a big list. 

Thanks! Its tough to assess how much value a coach has when they worked with players as youths. 

Wheeldon worked with adekugbe at foothills (probably the longest relationship with any player) and has some connection to kennedy through both being within CMSA even though I dont think he directly coached him ever. 

[Obinna]

1 minute ago, Bigandy said:

Thanks! Its tough to assess how much value a coach has when they worked with players as youths. 

Wheeldon worked with adekugbe at foothills (probably the longest relationship with any player) and has some connection to kennedy through both being within CMSA even though I dont think he directly coached him ever. 

No I think Kennedy played at Chinooks or maybe some other club. He wasn't a foothills player at any time IIRC. 

[Bigandy]

Just now, Obinna said:

No I think Kennedy played at Chinooks or maybe some other club. He wasn't a foothills player at any time IIRC. 

Kennedy was at chinooks and played under niendorf. But everyone on that chinook team has connections to tommy even if they didnt play under him. Scott would have built some sort of relationship with him just due to being in the same circles.  

[Unnamed Trialist]

6 hours ago, SpursFlu said:

How many really good professional soccer players did Bobby Smyrniotis mold in Canada at a time when nobody was creating professional soccer players in Canada? Not to mention what he's done with Forge

John Herdman got ok results with Canadian Women's team when 95% of the world could give a shit about Women's soccer.

Herdman's biggest accomplishment was that he was able to make the media become infatuated with him. He's on ok soccer coach but his biggest strength his ability to market himself 

I think Herdman's biggest accomplishment is tied into his departure: he got the CSA, for one cycle, and with 2026 in the bag, to spend exactly what was needed to get us to Qatar. Over a really long qualification period that required travel, COVID arrangements, not playing at home.

Then getting the players to buy into that too, as a block without fissures. So it's marketing or promotional if you like, but with a sporting purpose. 

The reason I say it's related to his departure is that the short to mid-term effect on our program was to get the women asking for equitable treatment, people questioning the CSA budget and the CSB deal, and likely creating a bit of WC hangover that we wouldn't have had if we hadn't been there.

[SpursFlu]

1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I think Herdman's biggest accomplishment is tied into his departure: he got the CSA, for one cycle, and with 2026 in the bag, to spend exactly what was needed to get us to Qatar. Over a really long qualification period that required travel, COVID arrangements, not playing at home.

Then getting the players to buy into that too, as a block without fissures. So it's marketing or promotional if you like, but with a sporting purpose. 

The reason I say it's related to his departure is that the short to mid-term effect on our program was to get the women asking for equitable treatment, people questioning the CSA budget and the CSB deal, and likely creating a bit of WC hangover that we wouldn't have had if we hadn't been there.

You think too much. It's just soccer

Herdman is gone and soon we'll hire a new coach, likely Smyrniotis and Canada will continue to get better.

Edited September 16, 2023 by SpursFlu

[phil03]

9 hours ago, Obinna said:

Good post.

I find myself stuck between "Yes Bobby doesn't jump out as the man to take the CMNT to new heights" and "Bobby is our best hope for a CPL-coach to jump a level".

Now, maybe the CMNT job shouldn't be the place to test it out. Maybe a club in MLS or elsewhere would be more appropriate. But then I keep coming back to the so-called fact that he's already worked with multiple CanMNT players and he's supposedly well respected. Then I think about the titles he's won in a league that does have a decent level of parity. Then I think about how a good coach (or player) sometimes just needs the right opportunity - but then I go right back to "the CMNT job is too important to grant such an opportunity to a CPL coach". Then rinse and repeat, basically.  

For me the bolded part should simply not be a factor in selecting the new head coach as I don't see the CMNT as a tool we use to give people a chance to develop. I see the CMNT as the reason developing people is important in the first place. Not a mean to an end but the end in and off itself!

We didn't consider Waterman, McNaughton, Zator, Loturi, Pantemis, Sirois and others qualified to be considered for the CMNT when they were still playing in the CPL. We only did after they made a jump up, and the CPL is rightly praised for helping them get there. I don't see why we ought to act differently when it comes to coaches.

I think Smyrniotis can find a way to make the jump and turn himself into a coach that is actually qualified for the job but he hasn't done so and he isn't qualified yet, simple as that in my book.

Edited September 16, 2023 by phil03

[frmr]

3 hours ago, SpursFlu said:

You think too much. It's just soccer

Herdman is gone and soon we'll hire a new coach, likely Smyrniotis and Canada will continue to get better.

Some might suggest you don't think enough. Not myself, necessarily, but some might.

[blueseeka]

10 hours ago, frmr said:

Some might suggest you don't think enough. Not myself, necessarily, but some might.

Lol...after being here for a while now. A couple people with either their overly pro-CSA or overly anti-CSA always make me laugh.

I think Bobby has a chance to be a decent HC but honestly he doesn't have the pedigree for a MNT coach.

[MtlMario]

Well to continue with this circus I wonder if Scott Arfield would be interested.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

😁🙃😁

[Ruud]

Few ideas. 
what about Bruce Arena!  
proven loved by Tajon. 

[Ruud]

Ralph Kruger - perfect guy for a job with soccer Canada. 

[narduch]

15 minutes ago, Ruud said:

Few ideas. 
what about Bruce Arena!  
proven loved by Tajon. 

He has a stink around him now 

[BearcatSA]

35 minutes ago, Ruud said:

Few ideas. 
what about Bruce Arena!  
proven loved by Tajon. 

That would be a Columbus Blue Jackets calibre of hire.

[Ruud]

22 minutes ago, narduch said:

He has a stink around him now 

Not sure anything has come out yet.  

[narduch]

13 minutes ago, Ruud said:

Not sure anything has come out yet.  

Sure. But unless his name is cleared in the next month or so you are taking an enormous gamble

[Ruud]

2 hours ago, BearcatSA said:

That would be a Columbus Blue Jackets calibre of hire.

Besides winning with the ducks he really doesn’t deserve the accolades he has.  Winning with hockey canada hardly counts as coaching IMO 

[JAVIERF]

Alfaro Gareca and Gallardo interviewed.  Pochettino was in shortlist but he got a job in May

[Obinna]

21 minutes ago, JAVIERF said:

Alfaro Gareca and Gallardo interviewed.  Pochettino was in shortlist but he got a job in May

For reference

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gustavo_Alfaro

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcelo_Gallardo

If you're Canada do you take the experienced manager that just came off a 3 year stint with Ecuador, but has never managed in an English environment?

Or do you take the younger, relatively inexperienced manager that's never managed an international side, but with a very impressive playing resume (including as an international) that includes a brief stint at DC United - an english environment? 

[Shway]

22 minutes ago, Obinna said:

For reference

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gustavo_Alfaro

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcelo_Gallardo

If you're Canada do you take the experienced manager that just came off a 3 year stint with Ecuador, but has never managed in an English environment?

Or do you take the younger, relatively inexperienced manager that's never managed an international side, but with a very impressive playing resume (including as an international) that includes a brief stint at DC United - an english environment? 

Is that even real. Seems fake - Pochetino...really?...or is it just CSA semantics to make it seem like due diligence is being done. Comes out of nowhere tbh. 

Gallardo was recently interviewing with Marseille.

and then there's the question of when did these interviews happen? Wasn't Herdman still on the job, or did he give a heads up in hindsight?

[Obinna]

15 minutes ago, Shway said:

Is that even real. Seems fake - Pochetino...really?...or is it just CSA semantics to make it seem like due diligence is being done. Comes out of nowhere tbh. 

Gallardo was recently interviewing with Marseille.

and then there's the question of when did these interviews happen? Wasn't Herdman still on the job, or did he give a heads up in hindsight?

Well Pochetino I absolutely don't belief, but the other two seem realistic. Gallardo less than Alfaro I suppose, especially if he's interviewing for the likes of Marseille. 

[badname22]

There's no way Gallardo even entertained us. He's too wanted and can easily go back to SA if Europe doesn't pan out. Alfaro would be amazing though,  probably my second favourite "realistic" choice behind Gareca

[DoyleG]

On 9/16/2023 at 10:29 AM, blueseeka said:

Lol...after being here for a while now. A couple people with either their overly pro-CSA or overly anti-CSA always make me laugh.

I think Bobby has a chance to be a decent HC but honestly he doesn't have the pedigree for a MNT coach.

If he applies and meets the need, then he's the coach.

This is a national team, not a fucking country club.

[RojitoTO]

3 hours ago, JAVIERF said:

Alfaro Gareca and Gallardo interviewed.  Pochettino was in shortlist but he got a job in May

Source?