Next CanMNT manager (Herdman to TFC)

[Obinna]

8 minutes ago, Aird25 said:

Bobby Wheeldon of Calvary... we're having a laugh, right?

Do we give Tommy the beard, or do we give Bobby the hair?

[Aird25]

19 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Do we give Tommy the beard, or do we give Bobby the hair?

Or do we get rid of their horses and put them on crosses

Edited September 14, 2023 by Aird25

[costarg]

1 hour ago, Aird25 said:

Bobby Wheeldon of Calvary... we're having a laugh, right?

We need games, we're really bored and just trying really hard to come up with anything to talk about.

[SpursFlu]

People just hate Canadians playing for the Whitecaps lol ink hasnt even dried and already formulating an exit strategy 

[youllneverwalkalone]

Do we know if Neville and Shaw are still around? I got the feeling at the time that it was a short-term thing...

[Unnamed Trialist]

3 hours ago, Obinna said:

Do we give Tommy the beard, or do we give Bobby the hair?

Peacetime in the Middle Kingdom, you get Bearn mating with a dwarf and out comes a whole new race of potential Canadian Men's National team coaches.

[phil03]

20 hours ago, Obinna said:

Fair point. Even with that Smyrniotis is the most successful CPL coach ever, with Wheeldon second, but a distant 2nd. More importantly though he's worked with many current national team players with Sigma. How much that counts for is debatable, but it's another advantage he'd have over a guy like Wheeldon. Point taken though, neither manager has gone to another envioronment and proved their worth. 

There's many ways to look at it. Did Herdman for example take a step up? A step down? Or a lateral step? It can be debated for sure, but either way the gap from the CPL to the CanMNT national team is massive, admittedly. 

I'd call it a lateral move, going from one national team to another and the fact that there is (unfortunately) still a gap in media attention between the men and the women's game being balanced by the fact that the women have traditionally been more successful then the men in Canada.

In any case, Herdman had still coached a team to an Olympic medal twice by the time he got hired to coach the guys. I don't think what Smyrniotis and Wheldon is insignificant, far from it and especially for the former, but I don't think its disrespecting the CPL or Smyrniotis then to rank what Herdman c.2018 had on his resume significantly higher then what Smyrniotis has right now.

Edited September 14, 2023 by phil03

[Aird25]

2 hours ago, phil03 said:

I'd call it a lateral move, going from one national team to another and the fact that there is (unfortunately) still a gap in media attention between the men and the women's game being balanced by the fact that the women have traditionally been more successful then the men in Canada.

In any case, Herdman had still coached a team to an Olympic medal twice by the time he got hired to coach the guys. I don't think what Smyrniotis and Wheldon is insignificant, far from it and especially for the former, but I don't think its disrespecting the CPL or Smyrniotis then to rank what Herdman c.2018 had on his resume significantly higher then what Smyrniotis has right now.

Just to confirm, you’re settling on the woman’s national team being massively better than a CPL championship team?

[phil03]

49 minutes ago, Aird25 said:

Just to confirm, you’re settling on the woman’s national team being massively better than a CPL championship team?

I am settling on an Olympic medal, regardless of gender, being a significantly bigger accomplishment then a Northstar Shield or a run in CONCACAF League, yes. And frankly, if you'd ask either Canadian Soccer fans or Canadian sports journalists the vast majority of both would in all probability agree.

Edited September 15, 2023 by phil03

[Aird25]

4 minutes ago, phil03 said:

I am settling on an Olympic medal, regardless of gender, being a significantly bigger accomplishment than a Northstar Shield or a run in CONCACAF League, yes. And frankly, if you'd ask either Canadian Soccer fan or Canadian sports journalists the vast majority of both would in all oprobability agree.

To confirm Bev Priestman before Smyrniotis or Wheeldon because of the Olympics?

[phil03]

4 minutes ago, Aird25 said:

To confirm Bev Priestman before Smyrniotis or Wheeldon because of the Olympics?

100%, yes. And I would once again feel confident in the overwhelming agreement of both Canadian sports professionals as well as Canadian Soccer fans. 

The only valid argument for Smyrniotis in that situation would be the differences in coaching men instead of women but Herdman has proved the transition between the two is definitely manageable.

Edited September 15, 2023 by phil03

[Shway]

This thread has gone to shits...I need to get that strain of what Phil's smoking to let my smoker friends try it. 

Bev Priestman just led a team that set a record for not leaving the group after winning the Olympics. 

And now you're @phil03 suggesting she set a new record for being the first women to coach a mens national team?Talk about failing upward. 

I'm not a misogynist...but this is stupid, and would make us more of a joke then we already are.

[phil03]

26 minutes ago, Shway said:

This thread has gone to shits...I need to get that strain of what Phil's smoking to let my smoker friends try it. 

Bev Priestman just led a team that set a record for not leaving the group after winning the Olympics. 

And now you're @phil03 suggesting she set a new record for being the first women to coach a mens national team?Talk about failing upward. 

I'm not a misogynist...but this is stupid, and would make us more of a joke then we already are.

I don't think she'd be the perfect candidate but she would make significantly more sense then someone whose biggest accomplishment as head coach of a professional team was to get to the semi-finals of the CONCACAF League.

In fact, I have just about the same opinion you have on Priestman's potential candidacy in regard to how much sense hiring a coach who does not have any experience at a level a player would need for said player to be even seriously considered for the CMNT would make and how it would be seen in the broader Soccer world. And yet, I have found a way to express my disagreement with people who want Smyrniotis as head coach without lobbying personal insults at them.

I would be grateful if you could find a way to do the same in expressing your own view of point.

Edited September 15, 2023 by phil03

[cornerkick]

this guy is free now.  he might have the same frown after looking at CSA's finances though

https://x.com/FabrizioRomano/status/1701986740460740655?s=20

Edited September 15, 2023 by cornerkick

[Aird25]

42 minutes ago, phil03 said:

100%, yes. And I would once again feel confident in the overwhelming agreement of both Canadian sports professionals as well as Canadian Soccer fans. 

The only valid argument for Smyrniotis in that situation would be the differences in coaching men instead of women but Herdman has proved the transition between the two is definitely manageable.

[jonovision]

48 minutes ago, Aird25 said:

To confirm Bev Priestman before Smyrniotis or Wheeldon because of the Olympics?

Why not?

[phil03]

6 minutes ago, Aird25 said:

I would give that the same answer then I give to Shway in my previous comment.

[gigi riva]

23 hours ago, gigi riva said:

Bobby Wheeldon of Calvary I would not moind seeing him involved with our youth teams. Similiar to what Thierry Henry is doin in France 

my bad I meant Tommy Wheeldon

[DoyleG]

Let's hire Smyrniotis

Time for some people to have burst vessels in their brains.

[Obinna]

I know you guys are clowning @phil03 and to be honest the thought of Bev for manager seems far-fetched, to put it nicely, but if I learned anything from Herdman's tenure it's not to discount coaching results on the women's side of the game.

We had this debate before with Herdman, that level of play being lower (on the women's side) doesn't necessarily mean that doing well at the Olympics and the World Cup should be dismissed. However, we also saw Herdman look wildly out of his depth at the World Cup, despite his World Cup experience on the women's side of the game, so what would you make of that @jonovision? Maybe that's just a "John thing" and we shouldn't extrapolate it Bev or Neville or any other coach that's done the job for men and women? Unfortunately we don't have many examples of managers who have crossed over, and Herdman is a pretty unique individual, so maybe we shouldn't draw conclusions from the fact he looked like a novice at the World Cup - a compeition he was very familiar with on the women's side of the game?

Despite the World Cup Herdman overall was definitely a success, to the point where I find myself holding back from hitting the laugh recation at some of these comments.

Now obviously the level of play is higher in the CPL than the women's world cup or olympics (I hope we can all agree on that), which is the pinnical of Bev's coaching experience, and Herdman's before the men's job.

At the same time, there's probably a question to be asked about whether the pressure at these international women's events would be greater than a CPL final. I mean, it's international competition and it's the World Cup and the Olympics, there are a lot of eyeballs, even more during Bev's reign then Herdman's, but not to the same degree as the Men's World Cup. Again I hope for the sake of a reasonable discussion we could all agree (although the men's olympics may be debatable).

I don't want to come off as disrespectful to the women's game here - but do you guys think there's actually a valid debate here? I am not suggesting there are more eyeballs on the CPL than the women's world cup, or olympics, and I hope nobody else would claim that, because it would be disengenuous, but I do wonder if there's something to be said about the stakes and pressure when comparing the two coaching resumes - especially when you factor in the CONCACAF CUP runs that Forge and Bobby had. That's international competition, and it's at a higher level playing-wise (for whatever that's worth) than the WWC. 

 

[Unnamed Trialist]

12 hours ago, cornerkick said:

this guy is free now.  he might have the same frown after looking at CSA's finances though

https://x.com/FabrizioRomano/status/1701986740460740655?s=20

Fernando Santos until 2026. Hansi Flick. If you could offer a million and a bit to the guy and a team, you might find takers. I don't think some of these guys are so far-fetched, especially the older ones who may prefer to the lesser work rate of a national team.

[SpursFlu]

I have a question 

If Hansi Flick had coached Vancouver fc this season what position would they be in?

Same players of course

[Unnamed Trialist]

12 hours ago, phil03 said:

I would give that the same answer then I give to Shway in my previous comment.

He's the top man on this board in gratuitous insults, like a kid who throws rocks then stuffs his hands in his pockets, playing innocent.

You argued a point, and the point is damn good: if in Canada we were able to take a women's coach and transition him to the men, where he had zero experience, and that guy only had bronze medals, why can't a woman be moved to the men as well based on her winning gold. 

It is simply hypothetical, Priestman is not necessarily a very interesting coach, but she does have a strong mindset and has been able to make the team tough and competitive. Beating major rivals like the US and Sweden. 

There is no reason to rightly assume guys fiddling around in CPL have a higher skill set. Wheeldon has failed in the crunch almost all his career at Cavalry, and Bobby seems a bit conformist and the strongest roster underperforms--except in the crunch. But often because the rival was not up to par. Neither are tactical geniuses, I have learned basically zero from them when it comes to football. In fact, I learnt more from the women's Olympics run, like how to fight a war of attrition, use a low scoreline vs superior rivals, and prep for penalties.

Clearly, the point is valid, and you have recognised its rhetorical ground. Something totally lost on some here.  But we'd all prefer someone with a stronger profile with mens national teams or as a club manager.

 

[Obinna]

Just now, SpursFlu said:

I have a question 

If Hansi Flick had coached Vancouver fc this season what position would they be in?

Same players of course

Last place.

Life is not a video game. You can't insert a so-called World Class manager into team xyz and expect things to be entirely different if that coach has no experience in that soccer environment or country. Does Flick even speak english? 

Maybe they finish 7th and not 8th, but I wouldn't say they'd be much further along. That's my two cents and inital recation. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

6 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

I have a question 

If Hansi Flick had coached Vancouver fc this season what position would they be in?

Same players of course

It is not really fair because a totally new team, with nothing to build on from the previous year, cannot be expected a lot from. 

In any case, it would make no sense to oblige Flick to play the guys who were not very good and make them good. You or I would probably have done something different, beginning with probably just Romeo and three other guys on the back line, and a more effective DM from the start. And far less u-21 minutes.

Vancouver is not even mathematically eliminated from the playoffs yet, with 5 games to play. You turn around 4-5 results, into draws or wins, meaning rivals would have less points, and they are a competitive lower table team even with this manager.

Edited September 15, 2023 by Unnamed Trialist