2023 World Cup General Match Thread

[SoccMan]

Shows how screwed up the US is right now , go on most social media and this has been politicized like almost everything these days and especially in Amerika . A lot of Americans rejoicing this loss and the hate for Rapinoe especially is something else . Moreover , the famous word woke is the word of the day on social media when it comes to this national team and this loss and especially this player , sad times indeed .

[SpursFlu]

Everything Woke turns to shit. It's unavoidable 

But not to make people angry or anything just providing some texture. A recent poll suggests nearly 70% of Americans were cheering against the USWNT

And I know I felt it here as well. There was far less people enthusiastic for the Women's team then in years past. Hopefully this next generation of players will have more Carli Lloyd's and less Megan Rapinoes because I truly like cheering on the Women's team. A vocal minority just make it so damn difficult at times

Edited August 6, 2023 by SpursFlu

[Bison44]

Man its funny how one polarizing player can turn large portions of the country against a team.  Although I would argue that many of the people complaining/pointing fingers at certain players the most dont follow womens soccer and just used this as an excuse to score some political points.  The USA has had plenty of "bad guy" players on the team that everyone loves to hate over the years, but this is getting overboard.  Seems like down south what country song, what movie and what sports team you cheer for is a political flag they are throwing up to help fit in with their tribe.  Still, hehehhe I'm glad they are out.  

[The Ref]

Sweden has made the world to rejoice.  Hopefully they get the Cup.  They deserve it.

 

[BearcatSA]

These are two traditional (for want of a better word, though I could have gone with a computer thing like 1.0 or 2.0) women's national teams.  These are really big time athletic teams, pure and simple, with just enough tactical nous and individual skill level to make things happen.  Today, the keeper for Sweden made the difference in shot stopping from open play while the American keeper did enough in dealing with set play inswinging crosses into the goal area that most other teams' keepers would have been lost at sea on (apart from that threat, the Swedes really had nothing).

But in open play, there is little sophistication, little variation, little advanced, cohesive understanding of how to break down an organized defence beyond a simple give and go or basic triangle passing.  Too much thinking of where the ball should be going after receiving the pass and not before, without a real grasp of the pattern of play; too many rushed, low percentage passes that get bailed out because a player has Olympic sprinter athleticism and can get on to it.  Hey, I am not at all disparaging having those kind of players:  I wish they all are supreme athletes.  But as I said before, when the opponents can start getting closer to you with athleticism plus what they bring with superior technique execution and tactical understanding, you need to have more in the bag than just outrunning, outmuscling, or outjumping somebody.

I saw a ton of graft, heart, and commitment out there between both teams, and that was gripping, but the soccer on display from these two teams?  I wouldn't say it was master class.

It was interesting that in the Fox broadcast where 99% of the post mortem dealt with the Americans simply shooting themselves in the feet vs the Dutch and the Portuguese, they finally at the end acknowledged that the rest of the world is catching up.  How do you stay above the curve?  Be better in the technical and tactical parts of the game, both individually and collectively.  For the Americans, they only have one player playing on a top European side (Horan at Lyon).  Perhaps some more younger players need exposure in that kind of environment which is getting the best ideas from the top European men's pro leagues in terms of development.  Probably better than the NCAA alumni league (NWSL).

Thoughts?  

[Stanley]

22 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

Seems like down south what country song, what movie and what sports team you cheer for is a political flag they are throwing up to help fit in with their tribe.  Still, hehehhe I'm glad they are out.  

And the left down there up here and overseas are just the same.

[Unnamed Trialist]

Just now, BearcatSA said:

These are two traditional (for want of a better word, though I could have gone with a computer thing like 1.0 or 2.0) women's national teams.  These are really big time athletic teams, pure and simple, with just enough tactical nous and individual skill level to make things happen.  Today, the keeper for Sweden made the difference in shot stopping from open play while the American keeper did enough in dealing with set play inswinging crosses into the goal area that most other teams' keepers would have been lost at sea on (apart from that threat, the Swedes really had nothing).

But in open play, there is little sophistication, little variation, little advanced, cohesive understanding of how to break down an organized defence beyond a simple give and go or basic triangle passing.  Too much thinking of where the ball should be going after receiving the pass and not before, without a real grasp of the pattern of play; too many rushed, low percentage passes that get bailed out because a player has Olympic sprinter athleticism and can get on to it.  Hey, I am not at all disparaging having those kind of players:  I wish they all are supreme athletes.  But as I said before, when the opponents can start getting closer to you with athleticism plus what they bring with superior technique execution and tactical understanding, you need to have more in the bag than just outrunning, outmuscling, or outjumping somebody.

I saw a ton of graft, heart, and commitment out there between both teams, and that was gripping, but the soccer on display from these two teams?  I wouldn't say it was master class.

It was interesting that in the Fox broadcast where 99% of the post mortem dealt with the Americans simply shooting themselves in the feet vs the Dutch and the Portuguese, they finally at the end acknowledged that the rest of the world is catching up.  How do you stay above the curve?  Be better in the technical and tactical parts of the game, both individually and collectively.  For the Americans, they only have one player playing on a top European side (Horan at Lyon).  Perhaps some more younger players need exposure in that kind of environment which is getting the best ideas from the top European men's pro leagues in terms of development.  Probably better than the NCAA alumni league (NWSL).

Thoughts?  

Good post. I don't understand what "graft" means here.

The league in the States is being exposed in this WC. There are few teams still, no second division which you have in all other nations, and the US fans come out to watch this rather rough play you've so well described. Noone is asked to take the technical step up. In Europe you have a diversity of leagues, styles, there is emulation of men's models (at Lyon, Barça) but also more physical teams, Wolfsburg, or more traditional coaching which I think has little future (yes, Chelsea). But a mix of the various iterations of the game. 

The US isn't scary anymore, but to be fair, no team in world women's football is scary anymore. 

Edited August 6, 2023 by Unnamed Trialist

[Joe MacCarthy]

20 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

Although I would argue that many of the people complaining/pointing fingers at certain players the most dont follow womens soccer and just used this as an excuse to score some political points.

There were soccer media and ex player commentators on the side opposed to this team and I don't think they would have been of the political right.  I can speak from personal experience that what happened with the women's rugby 7s team has largely turned me off women's sports contrary to what can be seen at this forum where I was one of the biggest boosters.

The US team authored their own dislike with their actions, one of which (appearing to "model" instead of getting into a proper mindset before their previous game turned many people off.  Add to that some of the player's "disinterest" (to use a polite term) of the anthem can't help to turn large numbers of people off.  I fear Canada not being far off that, hope I'm wrong.

[BearcatSA]

8 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Good post. I don't understand what "graft" means here.

Hard grunt work

[Unnamed Trialist]

Just now, BearcatSA said:

Hard grunt work

I really had no clue.

All great teams have those players, but if you have a possession game and everyone presses to regain possession, then it becomes part of a more attractive style for fans.

[GasPed]

1 hour ago, Joe MacCarthy said:

The US team authored their own dislike with their actions, one of which (appearing to "model" instead of getting into a proper mindset before their previous game turned many people off.  Add to that some of the player's "disinterest" (to use a polite term) of the anthem can't help to turn large numbers of people off.  I fear Canada not being far off that, hope I'm wrong.

One other thing that turned a lot of people off was their ridiculous celebrations in the 13-0 game last World Cup (led by you know who).  I suspect (and would hope) if our team ever did the same, their support would likewise tank...

Edited August 6, 2023 by GasPed

[BearcatSA]

31 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I really had no clue.

All great teams have those players, but if you have a possession game and everyone presses to regain possession, then it becomes part of a more attractive style for fans.

Yes, all top teams have them, but when those grafters are limited in the craft of technique and tactical side of the game, and there are too many on the field, the team has obvious limitations.  They spend almost all match having to regain possession they lost too easily in the first place.

I love the pressing game, btw.  

[Unnamed Trialist]

Just now, BearcatSA said:

Yes, all top teams have them, but when those grafters are limited in the craft of technique and tactical side of the game, and there are too many on the field, the team has obvious limitations.  They spend almost all match having to regain possession they lost too easily in the first place.

I love the pressing game, btw.  

I love it too but you need the whole team to commit to it. I've always been surprised that MLS, supposedly more physical, seems to never see a high press.

[mtlfan]

 

[Unnamed Trialist]

I'm happy the US is out, but I find the piling on childish. Especially when mixed with the politics. Most of the cliché cookie cutter anti-woke language is even dumber than the excess posturing of social justice warrior athletes.

We are in a similarly dire situation in Canada with our women's programme, with incoherent messages, plenty of contradictions, and then we fell terribly in the group stage, the Olympic champions. And most of our players are left off the hook, nobody takes any responsibility at all, Priestman is whistling in the wind and looking the other way. And then Beckie, probably the most outspoken, gets to go on TSN and pretend everything is just fine.

[BearcatSA]

17 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

As a Spain fan, I am rightly worried about the Dutch. Spain, as I have been saying, is missing key pieces, has a few wrong ones on the field, it is not at its best. It is a team that can be exploited. So while I think there is a slight edge, it is still a fairly even match.

The Dutch look to have good shot stopping, ditto Sweden, and that might be a significant edge for both of these teams in their QF match ups.

[DoyleG]

7 hours ago, GasPed said:

One other thing that turned a lot of people off was their ridiculous celebrations in the 13-0 game last World Cup (led by you know who).  I suspect (and would hope) if our team ever did the same, their support would likewise tank...

Even before that with the way USWNT fanzies acted after the men didn't qualify for the '18 WC. Acting like "Why can't you beat punt T&T 10-0 like we do?". The '19 WWC performance and the politicians fawning over them just made matters worse.

If one were to look at the current map of US soccer, there are a lot of issues coming up

- Overhaul of the USWNT

- Ownership issues with NWSL clubs and the new expansion team.

- USL setting up their own women's pro league

- Changes in the NCAA (RIP Pac-12)

[kacbru]

It is so funny from the outside, but man that country is a mess.

[MrR]

Hey Donnie, what about the "shocking and totally unexpected" loss by the U.S. Men's Soccer Team to Panama, at last month's Gold Cup? Can you imagine what's going to happen in 2026 if you don't win the next election?

Oh, come to think of it, remember in 2018, when you were President, the U.S. Men's Soccer Team didn't even qualify. In fact, that was the only time in the last 33 years that the U.S. Men's Soccer Team didn't qualify for a World Cup Final. Clearly, the United States Men's Soccer Team is far better off without you.

Edited August 7, 2023 by MrR

[BearcatSA]

England, coming off a laugher against the Chinese, now face a physical and determined Nigeria.  However, James has been class on the attack and I think their experience will carry the day.

Australia is taking Denmark.  I don't think the Danes have the bottle to overcome the home support and though they had a good second half in that defeat to England, I am not really convinced of their quality.  The Australians can ride the homeland's support like a wave at Mainbreak and probably will very likely face the French in the QF.

Lots of good matches to enjoy. 

[BearcatSA]

One more thing about England:  if they have a run all the way to the final, does the USSF unload a Brinks truck (relatively speaking in comparison to other managers in the women's game) at Weigman's door for her to take over their program? 

Edited August 7, 2023 by BearcatSA

[Sinc_Tanc_Olympic_Action]

There is a case made that the US shouldn't have gotten past Round if 16 against Spain in the 2019 WWC.  Spain completely outplayed the US, but the ref gave the US two soft penalties which made the US win.  I would say that what happened yesterday against Sweden is an example of what goes around, comes around.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Not watching enough of this to be able to comment in any great depth but there was always going to be a point when being the pioneers on women's sport and sheer weight of registration numbers wasn't going to be enough and they would have to start upping their game tactically when other countries with a stronger soccer culture started taking the women's side of things seriously.

Hope Nigeria knock out England after reading this:

Nah, being honest about it I'm from Scotland originally so I didn't actually need this to hope Nigeria knock out England.

Edited August 7, 2023 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[Unnamed Trialist]

Incredible piece of shit move by Lauren James who deliberately steps on a rival and the yellow is changed to red. How can you think you are so above the rival you can pull that with VAR watching? It's beyond stupid.

Otherwise, m. 90, scoreless, and Nigeria really playing well, solid positional and tactical play. And relaxed, sure of themselves. England perhaps better, with possession ideas and off the ball movement, but not really dominant and not imposing much of anything.

It's still yet another demonstration of how this WC is the best in history and a quantum leap in the women's game.

[Unnamed Trialist]

Ref compensating it seems. There was a shove in the box we've seen called before, a dirty late tackle before a play on, no yellow, England are imposing physical marking and the ref is letting it go. 

Not sure Nigeria has the quality to make good their extra player. And lacking creativity up top.