Gold Cup: Canada vs USA - Sunday, July 9th 7:30pm Eastern / 4:30pm Pacific - Cincinnati, OH (Match Thread)

[InglewoodJack]

I think this tournament also made me really appreciate Derek Cornelius so much more. We went into the gold cup with pretty much our A team centre backs and no combination really worked perfectly, but if you take a step back, you realize that we were without who might arguably be our best CB by this Christmas. 

[Kadenge]

Super effort from almost all the players who saw time on the field. The US were not impressive in the first half and I was thinking at that point if the US win, Panama would defeat them in the semi-final. We had some very tired legs in the 2nd half & extra time. The quality of the US subs that came on made a difference. We gave up the 2nd goal because we simply could not keep any possession when up 2-1 to work the clock. This GC was as much to do with the emergence of new young(ish) players and the decline of some of our vets, who clearly don't have the legs anymore and most certainly will not be able to rep us come 2026. The transition needs to happen now.

[Ruud]

12 hours ago, Cadeau said:

All in all, it was a great game. And the guys did great. Had people at my place and they were enthralled for sure. 

More entertainment than the nations league final is saying something!  

[Ruud]

12 hours ago, SthMelbRed said:

We were absolutely the better team in the first half, but probably second best in the second half, and beyond. There wasn't much in it throughout the match, either way. It was an even game and it wasn't unjust that it went to penalties.

Laryea and Hoilett were terrific first half but credit to Jones on the US.  Commenters say he was US man of the match after Turner.  Laryea had trouble beating him and that’s saying something.   JEDI and Jones is a formidable left side for US.  
 

 

 

[Ruud]

11 hours ago, VinceA said:

Can't even hate the man.

Listen to him on CBS.  Great guy. Seemed to have a few words with DSC.  Wonder what he said to him. 

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, Shway said:

Some people's assessments are interesting. 

Since we play a 352...I implore you to think about the depth chart, and how some players did in this tournament.

The reality is guys like Ahmed, and Bombito could likely replace the vets in the middle like Kaye and Piette permanently. I think Fraser did well, for not being meant to be there but he needs to get his club future sorted. I like him.

In the back Kennedy is moving down the chart in favour of McGraw moving up. The key is him being a right footed CB (which we are thin on), and the coaching  staff seem to think this as well. Also not factoring in the potential return of Cornelius. With Johnston being in the squad, I'm interested to see McGraw in the middle of the 3.

In the wingback positions Laryea is solid, and is already the number 2 behind a healthy Tajon. Nobody else really got the chance to display themselves. On the left side, Shaffelburg showed best here in the limited minutes he played. His explosiveness, and directness could be a 3rd option behind Davies, and Adekugbe. 

Up top...Larin and David have these position locked down. So who's the depth options? To be honest it's all determined by how well a guy is currently doing. None of JRR, Millar (did really well as forward), Brym, Ugbo, and Cavallini staked their claim this tournament, and the only guy who's club future/status is sorted out is JRR, and he's a super sub at Columbus.

Outside of Vitoria, Laryea, and Borjan...I think we'll continue to see McGraw, Ahmed, and Bombito...the rest are a toss up.
 

We have so much wide depth that Millar needs to be a rotational forward for the A team. He didn't stake his claim necessarily, but he showed enough to be used that way moving forward. I prefer him to Hoilett in that role at this stage of Junior's career. 

[mrstepp817]

41 minutes ago, Ruud said:

Laryea and Hoilett were terrific first half but credit to Jones on the US.  Commenters say he was US man of the match after Turner.  Laryea had trouble beating him and that’s saying something.   JEDI and Jones is a formidable left side for US.  
 

 

 

The US has been looking for someone to consistently play behind Robinson on that left side and Jones has made his case during the World Cup..I recall during WCQ Robinson was logging heavy minutes in those 3 game windows because they really didnt have anyone they were comfortable with.

I was hoping they'd give Bryan Reynolds a run on the left side selfishly, since his Dad and I were best friends in elementary school and we still keep in touch...but it seems like Reynolds best hope is to be the 2nd RB behind Dest in the pecking order

[DeRo_Is_King]

21 minutes ago, Obinna said:

We have so much wide depth that Millar needs to be a rotational forward for the A team. He didn't stake his claim necessarily, but he showed enough to be used that way moving forward. I prefer him to Hoilett in that role at this stage of Junior's career. 

Millar is an enigma to me. He is so talented, but for whatever reason, his final ball is still lacking. He had a couple of golden opportunities to either have a go or deliver a dangerous cross yesterday and they resulted in nothing. 

He's definitely a rotation guy. Just hope he works on this part of his game. 

Edited July 10, 2023 by DeRo_Is_King

[VinceA]

5 minutes ago, DeRo_Is_King said:

Millar is an enigma to me. He is so talented, but for whatever reason, his final ball is still lacking. He had a couple of golden opportunities to either have a go or deliver a dangerous cross yesterday and they resulted in nothing. 

He's definitely a rotation guy. Just hope he works on this part of his game. 

I think being given this run of starts will do wonders for his confidence. Hopefully Basel isn't a tire fire this year and he can have a bounce back year and actually be a winger again instead of whatever they were doing with him.

[Unnamed Trialist]

5 hours ago, TGAA_Star said:

I mean I almost didn't even have to predict the scoreline either but Canada losing on penalties isn't so bad but then again I just knew what was coming...but now Canada has no more games after this unless you count 2023/24 Nations League or Copa America. May have to get rid of Herdman because he only can get you so far.

You're taking the prize for the biggest bullshitter on the board, congrats. You win and the States won, you'll be doubly happy.

[BearcatSA]

4 hours ago, jonovision said:

That may have been true in earlier matches, but yesterday it was defensively where he was having problems (USA were constantly running through or threading passes through his space). He was good in possession.

I re-watched and charted his 60+ minutes of play and I would say that his play on the ball was fairly limited.  Ten passes (one forward pass giveaway) most of them pretty basic fare, two crosses.  He reminded me of Kevin Harmse as a midfielder for Canada and TFC with the limited involvement in the passing side of the game. 

Defensively, he lost two out of three 50/50s duels and as you noted got bypassed a number of times.  His best play was closing down the cross by Zendejas on the left.

Otherwise, not really a factor nor a presence out there.  Even last night, where his performance there was viewed by some as his best of the three starts there, you can see his lack of feel for the position (not moving into better pass reception positions to provide an outlet, not shielding after he had a nice forward run on the dribble, losing possession, then drawing a foul in trying to get it back).  He's going to have to play this spot a lot at club level a lot to get that feel.

However, I looked at his online metrics after my re-watching and for his 60 minutes he was rated better than Fraser for his final 60 minutes as his replacement, fwiw. 

Edited July 10, 2023 by BearcatSA

[BearcatSA]

On the other hand, if you want to see a guy whose stock rose after a slow start to the tourney, McGraw showed much better out there last night.  He had to deal with the pacy Zendejas down his side a few times and though he had good defensive support from Laryea and Ahmed, he did what he needed to do.  Also, he's a force in the air attacking and defending set pieces.  He has limitations and is likely an MLS lifer, but I feel more comfortable with his defending than the other right footed CBs we have seen or used in our pool.

Edited July 10, 2023 by BearcatSA

[InglewoodJack]

13 hours ago, VinceA said:

Can't even hate the man.

Yeah ignoring national allegiance, I really like Matt Turner. His character reminds me a bit of Borjan. Doesn’t hurt that he’s completely lights out on the pitch too.

[GasPed]

13 hours ago, Jack1997 said:

Whatever formation we play whether it be an back 2 or 3 I think at this point Cornelius should be a locked in starter, he plays at the highest level of any of our CBs and in my opinion from what I’ve seen he is our best CB by far right now, Good on the ball, Fast, Strong and a decent aerial presence, maybe I’m higher on him then others but I think not having him for Nation league and Gold cup isn’t a loss being talked about enough.

I like Derek Cornelius, but I don't think the Swedish league can be considered higher than MLS, Portugal or Austria.

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, BearcatSA said:

On the other hand, if you want to see a guy whose stock rose after a slow start to the tourney, McGraw showed much better out there last night.  He had to deal with the pacy Zendejas down his side a few times and though he had good defensive support from Laryea and Ahmed, he did what he needed to do.  Also, a force in the air attacking and defending set pieces.  He has limitations and is likely an MLS lifer, but I feel more comfortable with his defending than the other right footed CBs we have seen or used in our pool.

Agreed. McGraw grew into the tournament and gives us a much needed right footed alternative to Vitoria and possibly even Johnston if we want another profile in that spot. Johnston is great but defending set pieces isn't his strength, unlike McGraw.

Unfortunately for Zator, the emergence of McGraw pushes him out of the A selection. Unless he's killing it in Poland and/or McGraw has a big drop off with Portland, the depth chart will be 1. Johnston 2. McGraw 3. Zator. 

In a B side I think we can take both, with McGraw cover for RCB and the middle, and Zator cover for RCB and RB, but I don't see room for both in the A team. 

[Free kick]

4 hours ago, Shway said:

The reality is guys like Ahmed, and Bombito could likely replace the vets in the middle like Kaye and Piette permanently. I think Fraser did well, for not being meant to be there but he needs to get his club future sorted. I like him.
 

 

Isn’t it way to early to come to this conclusion?  I watched most of the games that Canada has played in this Gold cup and,  while I wouldn’t say that names you mentioned disappointed me, i could also say that none WOW’ed me either.   Overall,  we weren't great in this gold cup and thats because many of the key ingredients to our past successes weren’t there.  The names you mentioned are not proven yet (both professionally and as National team player) and furthermore those whom would be cast aside are known quantities and have been battle tested in environments like WCQ at Azteca.  That is a totally different world than a gold cup facing Guadeloupe, Guatemala, Cuba and a B or C team team from the US

Edited July 10, 2023 by Free kick

[Free kick]

Deleted due to duplicate posting

Edited July 10, 2023 by Free kick

[Obinna]

6 minutes ago, Free kick said:

Isn’t it way to early to come to this conclusion?  I watched most of the games that Canada has played in this Gold cup and,  while I wouldn’t say that names you mentioned disappointed me, i could also say that none WOW’ed me either.   Overall,  we weren't great in this gold cup and thats because many of the key ingredients to our past successes weren’t there.  The names you mentioned are not proven yet (both professionally and as National team player) and furthermore those whom would be cast aside are known quantities and have been battle tested in environments like WCQ at Azteca.  That is a totally different world than Guadeloupe, Guatemala, Cuba and a B or C team team from the US

The other thing I have been thinking post tournament is how some guys who looked solid previously were underwhelming and why.

Vitoria, Osorio, Miller and Cavallini stand out in this regard. They were fine in the QF, but overall they played down to the level of the team instead of pulling the level of the team up, as you'd expect from core players.

What I have considered now is that certain players have looked good being surrounded by good players. This is why our results and performances were worse than our team looked on paper. In reality I suspect these guys were exposed a bit whereas previously they looked good alongside the best we have to offer.

Miles Robinson for the States is possibly the same case, by the way.

Know who doesn't? Laryea. Good with the A group, good with the B group. He's one player who wasn't hurt by this tournament. To a lesser degree I would say Hoilett and Millar as well.

Kennedy I just didn't see enough of and Spoony actually did well in the QF but the reality is that he'll be phased out soon. May be his last big game for Canada at 33, but let's see what level he lands at.

 

[Ruud]

6 hours ago, CanadianSoccerFan said:

Solid scrap in the tunnel 

Was this Laryea versus Jones?   That was a battle all game so not surprised it extended to the tunnel 

[jonovision]

9 minutes ago, Ruud said:

Was this Laryea versus Jones?   That was a battle all game so not surprised it extended to the tunnel 

From what we can see of which players are wearing the substitutes vests and which aren't this would have occurred at half time.

[CanSoccfan11]

I lthought Millar's play once again was good.  He's only half a year or so removed from being moved to LWB on his club so taking that into account his play is pretty good.  I think like others I found he wasn't always sure what runs to make in the final third or what balls to play.   I chaulk that upmto lack of experience and reps in that role more then anything else. But he still made an overall impact in each game he played.  I still think his best spot is upfront but nice to know he has the versatility to play at LWB as well.

Edited July 10, 2023 by CanSoccfan11

[Ruud]

I think there’s a lot of us a consensus in the group analysis

I think Kamal Miller is a beast on our team only outmatched by Richie Laryea. I love the passion these two guys brought, however, as many have pointed out, Laryea had some poor decisions when he was in the box

I also really hope Junior Hoilett stays with his team a while longer. His decision making is almost always spot on. We need his creativity and his free kicks.

I love the Miller on the left that has many have pointed out his crossing wasn’t good enough, and that’s the bread and butter for Cav.  
 

Really like the depth players, otherwise and how they were deployed by herdman. But I personally wish every player got a moment on the field over the course of the tournament. Third keeper, notwithstanding.

on the US side since I’d watch Mihailović a lot here in Montreal I was looking forward to seeing how we played but it seems like we neutralized the middle of the park pretty well. He remains a ways off from their depth chart. Also, as I mentioned Jones on the left was stellar in and Bigio also.  Except for Vasquez, their subs, didn’t make the difference they hope they would.
 

 

[Ruud]

1 hour ago, jonovision said:

From what we can see of which players are wearing the substitutes vests and which aren't this would have occurred at half time.

Can’t wait for the inside scoop

[InglewoodJack]

2 hours ago, GasPed said:

I like Derek Cornelius, but I don't think the Swedish league can be considered higher than MLS, Portugal or Austria.

Not saying you’re wrong, but beyond league quality, Malmo is the second best team in Sweden, a point off from first, and a champions league slot. I think he is or was at some point the highest rated centre back in Sweden- that might be enough to slot in above our MLS guys. Vitoria has had an excellent season in Portugal, so he might be “#1” if such a rankings existed, but with age, tough to say.

[king1010]

2 hours ago, GasPed said:

I like Derek Cornelius, but I don't think the Swedish league can be considered higher than MLS, Portugal or Austria.

Keep in mind Cornelius is a starter for most successful domestic club in Swedish history. There is a big difference from that and some bottom of the table team. 

Edited July 10, 2023 by king1010