Gold Cup: Canada vs Cuba - Tuesday, July 4th - 6:30pm Eastern / 3:30pm Pacific - Houston, TX (Match Thread)

[JamboAl]

24 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

That interim coach they have is pretty good, must admit. Like his focus, he's modest, they all fit nicely into the system and the set-up allows them all to shine. 

Herdman take note.

100% agree here.  Never heard of him before but he has the US set up really well and speaks well too.  If I were American, I’d much rather have BJ Callaghan in charge than Berhalter.

[Obinna]

20 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

The spread between us is in fact more marginal than definitive. 

For sure, especially with the starting 11s. The deeper you get after that the more definitive their advantage gets. Same story as both A sides. 

Turner vs St. Clair (definitive)

Reynolds vs Laryea (marginal)

Robinson vs McGraw (definitive)

Neil vs Miller (marginal)

Jones vs Ahmed (marginal - but some Americans will probaly say definitive)

Sands vs Fraser (marginal - but some Americans will probably say definitive)

Mihailovic vs Osorio (marginal)

Busio vs Nelson (maringal)

Zendejas vs Hoilett (marginal)

Cowell vs Millar (marginal)

Ferreira vs Cavallini (definitive - but some Americans will probably say marginal - because they hate Ferreira lol)

 

I think if we are all being honest (Americans and Canadians alike) it's only Robinson and Turner (and maybe Ferrieira) that are definitive spreads when looking at the projected 11s. The rest are marginal and could go either way. They'd naturally rate their players over ours, and we'd do the same, but there's debate there. It's just 1 CB and their keeper where I see a clear advantage. Won't go through the bench options, but it's pretty definitive in every case I am pretty sure. Maybe you can say Vitoria/Kennedy is on/near par with Long/Miazga, and maybe (but probably not) you could say Spoony is on/near par but every other Canadian is a downgrade to the American counterpart.

 

Edited July 5, 2023 by Obinna

[mpg_29]

The chemistry of the team also matters. 

I am not that familiar with the US team and haven't watched the US games but judging by the results they seem to be playing better...

[JBR]

Pressure is on St. Clair I believe. I'm hoping he steals a game or three. 

[TOcanadafan]

Glad we got a little bit of flow going with our attack.  I thought Fraser played much better in this game vs the last.  
I’m very worried about our back line… Guadeloupe and Guatemala made them look bad, and US is way better in attack.

[blueseeka]

2 hours ago, narduch said:

Pretty easy to look good v St. Kitts or Trinidad

We did play the powerhouses of Guadeloupe and Guatemala

[king1010]

10 minutes ago, blueseeka said:

We did play the powerhouses of Guadeloupe and Guatemala

Id argue Guadeloupe and even Guatamala are a step above st kitts and trinidad. 

[BearcatSA]

I'm not on the Nelson train like some here.  He's still prone to giveaways and poor passing decisions.  He's improved greatly, particularly over his time at TFC, and you can see the instincts and talent, but I think he really needs to tighten up his game in eliminating those mistakes, which get punished vs higher calibre opponents.   

[Floortom]

23 minutes ago, king1010 said:

Id argue Guadeloupe and even Guatamala are a step above st kitts and trinidad. 

Guatemala is clearly the best of those 4 teams imo. T&T and Guadeloupe are pretty much the same and St Kitts is the worse (at same level as Cuba).

[king1010]

19 minutes ago, Floortom said:

Guatemala is clearly the best of those 4 teams imo. T&T and Guadeloupe are pretty much the same and St Kitts is the worse (at same level as Cuba).

Player for player id say Guatemala is below Guadeloupe, but as a team Guatemala is better. 

[pod818]

We have looked terrible on defending set pieces. I hope that gets cleaned up before Sunday. The US will be exploiting that as much as they can. They seem well coached. 

[Obinna]

46 minutes ago, BearcatSA said:

I'm not on the Nelson train like some here.  He's still prone to giveaways and poor passing decisions.  He's improved greatly, particularly over his time at TFC, and you can see the instincts and talent, but I think he really needs to tighten up his game in eliminating those mistakes, which get punished vs higher calibre opponents.   

I suspect this is why he wasn't initially selected for Gold Cup. Then when he did come he never featured until the 3rd match. When he did feature though it was clear he's improved and tightened up his game. Still has work to do, but for this team and this game, where he's at is not only good enough to start, but necessary to start or at least play significant minutes. We are short on goal threats and he is one of the few we have. 

Also, if Nelson is going to take the next step and get mature with his decision making, this is the game to do it. Since he can pinch inside and fill in the middle, it makes him a better choice for this one than Brym or Schaffleburg. The latter may be usual to help see out the game, especially if things get stretched and they are leaving space behind.

[Kadenge]

2 hours ago, TOcanadafan said:

Glad we got a little bit of flow going with our attack.  I thought Fraser played much better in this game vs the last.  
I’m very worried about our back line… Guadeloupe and Guatemala made them look bad, and US is way better in attack.

The scary part is that except for AJ, we have our "A" defenders at the GC on Canada's "B" squad and they still look poor. While we conceded 3 goals in 3 games, 2 of which were PKs, both Guadeloupe and Guatemala had chances to score and should have. Defending is a team effort, and they probably miss Staq and Kone in that regard,  but it's still  not a good performance. Its just reinforcing what we already know, that our CBs are our Achilles' heel.

[king1010]

7 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

The scary part is that except for AJ, we have our "A" defenders at the GC on Canada's "B" squad and they still look poor. While we conceded 3 goals in 3 games, 2 of which were PKs, both Guadeloupe and Guatemala had chances to score and should have. Defending is a team effort, and they probably miss Staq and Kone in that regard,  but it's still  not a good performance. Its just reinforcing what we already know, that our CBs are our Achilles' heel.

Adekugbe and Cornelius are also “A” team omissions. 

Edited July 5, 2023 by king1010

[Bigandy]

2 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

The scary part is that except for AJ, we have our "A" defenders at the GC on Canada's "B" squad and they still look poor. While we conceded 3 goals in 3 games, 2 of which were PKs, both Guadeloupe and Guatemala had chances to score and should have. Defending is a team effort, and they probably miss Staq and Kone in that regard,  but it's still  not a good performance. Its just reinforcing what we already know, that our CBs are our Achilles' heel.

4 goals in 3 games.  1 OG, 2 penalties, one real goal. 

Another way of looking at it is that we conceded 3 needless goals. Zator and JRR could do better on the OG, St clair didnt need to give away a PK, Zator was naïve on his PK. Then the "real" goal we conceded had mcgraw step into no mans land, have a runner go in behind and the his fast feet beat vitoria. Maybe vitoria deserves more blame than I am giving him.

However, vitoria getting beat by a quick player is nothing new and 1 goal against in 3 games is not terrible. I wonder what happens if we played borjan and didnt put on zator. Suddenly our A- defense is our strong component of the squad?

[TOcanadafan]

5 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

4 goals in 3 games.  1 OG, 2 penalties, one real goal. 

Another way of looking at it is that we conceded 3 needless goals. Zator and JRR could do better on the OG, St clair didnt need to give away a PK, Zator was naïve on his PK. Then the "real" goal we conceded had mcgraw step into no mans land, have a runner go in behind and the his fast feet beat vitoria. Maybe vitoria deserves more blame than I am giving him.

However, vitoria getting beat by a quick player is nothing new and 1 goal against in 3 games is not terrible. I wonder what happens if we played borjan and didnt put on zator. Suddenly our A- defense is our strong component of the squad?

You can’t go on just goals conceded when evaluating their D performance… Guatemala and Guadeloupe don’t have quality finishers.  Look at all the great chances given up, that a team with average or better players would have converted.  

[Kadenge]

4 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

4 goals in 3 games.  1 OG, 2 penalties, one real goal. 

Another way of looking at it is that we conceded 3 needless goals. Zator and JRR could do better on the OG, St clair didnt need to give away a PK, Zator was naïve on his PK. Then the "real" goal we conceded had mcgraw step into no mans land, have a runner go in behind and the his fast feet beat vitoria. Maybe vitoria deserves more blame than I am giving him.

However, vitoria getting beat by a quick player is nothing new and 1 goal against in 3 games is not terrible. I wonder what happens if we played borjan and didnt put on zator. Suddenly our A- defense is our strong component of the squad?

You are correct 4 goals conceded. The 1st goal was on Vitoria.  He let the CF beat him to the inside. He didn't get beat for speed. The own goal by JRR ( not much he could have done) would not have happened if we were better on aerial defending. The Guadeloupe player got his head to the ball before any Cdn defender..another set piece issue. The 1st PK was all on Osorio. Yes St Clair didn't help, but Oso should never have turned over the ball in that area of the field. The point though, is not necessarily the # of goals we gave up but the close chances that we conceded in the first 2 games in particular. Both Guadeloupe & Guatemala should have scored more goals if their players were a bit more clinical 

[Addona]

9 hours ago, Sal333 said:

You bigot. It's Americans we're talking about. They don't use knives. They exercise their 2nd amendment. Guns. 

Got it, stab = yellow, shoot = red …

[Bigandy]

17 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

You are correct 4 goals conceded. The 1st goal was on Vitoria.  He let the CF beat him to the inside. He didn't get beat for speed. The own goal by JRR ( not much he could have done) would not have happened if we were better on aerial defending. The Guadeloupe player got his head to the ball before any Cdn defender..another set piece issue. The 1st PK was all on Osorio. Yes St Clair didn't help, but Oso should never have turned over the ball in that area of the field. The point though, is not necessarily the # of goals we gave up but the close chances that we conceded in the first 2 games in particular. Both Guadeloupe & Guatemala should have scored more goals if their players were a bit more clinical 

I said he got beat with fast feet, which vitoria did. the striker cut him.  

If you watch the own goal, youll see that its a garbage ball that brym loses the header on. Its a bad header, we cant expect to win every header and if we are going to lose a header, thats the ball we want to lose on. Zator ball watches and allows his man to sneak in behind him. Not JRR's fault (although he could position himself better too). 

Agreed, bad turn over! But still a horrible decision by st clair. 

Goal 1 - vitoria
goal 2 - Zator
goal 3 - oso/st clair
goal 4 - zator 

one goal against based on our starting CB's. 
But I do get your point. Its about chances given up. Other than mcgraw and vitoria being beaten easily for pace, what other major chances did we give up? 

[Bigandy]

15 hours ago, TOcanadafan said:

You can’t go on just goals conceded when evaluating their D performance… Guatemala and Guadeloupe don’t have quality finishers.  Look at all the great chances given up, that a team with average or better players would have converted.  

I 100% agree but I dont think we gave up great chances. I just rewatched the highlights of the games and we give low percentage distance shots (Which i think is fine), set pieces (although we are not ever really troubled by them other than zators 2 mistakes) and then a few counter attacks. The only real concerning part is the ongoing lack of transition speed, however a large part of that can be mitigated when ZMG doesnt play RCB or we play kennedy/cornelius/AJ. So yes, technically we have our A- defense, but alot of our problems stem from the (-) part of the A-. 

[dyslexic nam]

17 hours ago, BearcatSA said:

I'm not on the Nelson train like some here.  He's still prone to giveaways and poor passing decisions.  He's improved greatly, particularly over his time at TFC, and you can see the instincts and talent, but I think he really needs to tighten up his game in eliminating those mistakes, which get punished vs higher calibre opponents.   

I have always been a fan (maybe it is mainly hope since he seems to have some attacking flair) but I don't disagree that he needs to tighten up in terms of possession. 

[TOcanadafan]

23 hours ago, Bigandy said:

I 100% agree but I dont think we gave up great chances. I just rewatched the highlights of the games and we give low percentage distance shots (Which i think is fine), set pieces (although we are not ever really troubled by them other than zators 2 mistakes) and then a few counter attacks. The only real concerning part is the ongoing lack of transition speed, however a large part of that can be mitigated when ZMG doesnt play RCB or we play kennedy/cornelius/AJ. So yes, technically we have our A- defense, but alot of our problems stem from the (-) part of the A-. 

I agree that we must avoid certain player combos… a trio of  ZMG / Vitoria / Miller is a death wish.  I’m so frustrated that the Bombito CDM experiment continued on in the 3rd game… I wish we got him more minutes in CB because I feel his speed is needed back there against the US. 
Even during WCQ there were signs that playing Vitoria and Miller together was flirting with disaster as they could be had on the break (and either AJ saved the day or the opposition wasted their chances) and this was definitely highlighted during the WC itself where we got punished because of their lack of pace / quality.
Our problem now is that Kennedy just isn’t at a high enough level at the moment and we’re missing Cornelius. 
 

Edited July 7, 2023 by TOcanadafan

[Bigandy]

4 minutes ago, TOcanadafan said:

I agree that we must avoid certain player combos… a trio of  ZMG / Vitoria / Miller is a death wish.  I’m so frustrated that the Bombito CDM experiment continued on in the 3rd game… I wish we got him more minutes in CB because I feel his speed is needed back there against the US. 
Even during WCQ there were signs that playing Vitoria and Miller together was flirting with disaster as they could be had on the break (and either AJ saved the day or the opposition wasted their chances) and this was definitely highlighted during the WC itself where we got punished because of their lack of pace / quality.
Our problem now is that Kennedy just isn’t at a high enough level at the moment and we’re missing Cornelius. 
 

Great points. However, is kennedy actually at a much lower level than miller, zmg, bombito. 

If we dont care about development then I play miller vitoria/zmg kennedy. Assuming kennedy is available. Keep bombito as a DM/cb sub for fresh legs where required....although its hard to imagine a scenario that calls for him as a dm and we trust him in that role. 

[Kadenge]

2 hours ago, TOcanadafan said:

.....
Our problem now is that Kennedy just isn’t at a high enough level at the moment and we’re missing Cornelius. 
 

If we played Kennedy as a LCB, he would be fine. He has the speed to compliment Vitoria/ZMG. He's been played in the middle of a back 3 and even as a RCB recently, but I don't think it will happen. Plus we don't even know if he is still with the team.

[TOcanadafan]

6 hours ago, Bigandy said:

Great points. However, is kennedy actually at a much lower level than miller, zmg, bombito. 

Ya, we’re probably splitting hairs.  Let’s face it, our CB options are fairly mediocre.