Gold Cup: Canada vs Cuba - Tuesday, July 4th - 6:30pm Eastern / 3:30pm Pacific - Houston, TX (Match Thread)

[CanSoccfan11]

This team needs to do something about its back line.  It is by far the biggest weakness on the team.

We have strikers and wing backs more then covered and we have a tonne of defensive central mids. 

What this team needs is a high end playmaking central mid that can control the flow.  

 

Happy for Millar, he's had a good tourny. 

[Bigandy]

28 minutes ago, CanSoccfan11 said:

This team needs to do something about its back line.  It is by far the biggest weakness on the team.

We have strikers and wing backs more then covered and we have a tonne of defensive central mids. 

What this team needs is a high end playmaking central mid that can control the flow.  

 

Happy for Millar, he's had a good tourny. 

Interesting take. I would say my opinion is the complete opposite. 

Our back 3 at this tournament is our A squad (minus johnston) with kennedy, mcgraw, zator and bombito as supplemental guys. Thats by far our deepest position at this tournament. 

Wingback only has laryea and ZBG. Other guys are out of position if the play there. 

For DM's we dont have a single A level player. We have loturi who clearly is not able to start. Fraser who this board hates, and bombito whos played 3ish games at dm. DM is arguably our weakest spot on this roster. 

[gator]

10 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

. 

For DM's we dont have a single A level player. We have loturi who clearly is not able to start. Fraser who this board hates, and bombito whos played 3ish games at dm. DM is arguably our weakest spot on this roster. 

This baffles me, why do posters hate on a player who always answers the call and does a pretty solid job at a position of need? Regardless of his club situation he has been useful in this tournament, he picks some good passes and has been overall safe with the ball with a couple of exceptions, he also has a history of good sub performances vs the US, our first Nations Lg victory at BMO and the match in Hamilton come to mind!

[Bigandy]

4 minutes ago, gator said:

This baffles me, why do posters hate on a player who always answers the call and does a pretty solid job at a position of need? Regardless of his club situation he has been useful in this tournament, he picks some good passes and has been overall safe with the ball with a couple of exceptions, he also has a history of good sub performances vs the US, our first Nations Lg victory at BMO and the match in Hamilton come to mind!

Great points. If he was starting in first division belguim, I think the board would love him. I think its just hard to wrap our head around the fact that hes on the bench in div 2. His play for canada is at a higher standard than his club form and many of us cant reconcile that in our head. Although I do like fraser! 

 

[InglewoodJack]

12 minutes ago, gator said:

This baffles me, why do posters hate on a player who always answers the call and does a pretty solid job at a position of need? Regardless of his club situation he has been useful in this tournament, he picks some good passes and has been overall safe with the ball with a couple of exceptions, he also has a history of good sub performances vs the US, our first Nations Lg victory at BMO and the match in Hamilton come to mind!

Because he plays for a terrible team in a terrible league and with what little we've been able to see/read about his performances, he's nothing special at Deinze either. People do forget that he always looks really good when he plays for us. I think if he somehow got moved to a team in Sweden, Scotland, a top division in countries like that, he'd go right back to being a call up lock for a lot of people here.

[Borjans Sweatpants]

13 hours ago, red card said:

Herdman is a heel.

He's a liar.

 

Nothing like getting some bulletin board material back. I hope we smash them.

[mrstepp817]

 

[DeRo_Is_King]

2 minutes ago, gator said:

This baffles me, why do posters hate on a player who always answers the call and does a pretty solid job at a position of need? Regardless of his club situation he has been useful in this tournament, he picks some good passes and has been overall safe with the ball with a couple of exceptions, he also has a history of good sub performances vs the US, our first Nations Lg victory at BMO and the match in Hamilton come to mind!

I personally don't hate the guy. But I think it's odd that he was initially left off the roster and then gets two starts since this was supposed to be an experimental tourney.

We know what Fraser brings but very little about Loturi at the national-team level. And while Fraser has done some good work, I wouldn't say he's been exceptional. He's also experienced a couple brainfarts. 

Further, it's fair to question his ceiling. Starting, playing 90 and getting a result vs Cuba should be simple if we're serious about improving and beating world-class teams. He was subbed out at half against Guatemala, and honestly, he didn't look great in that game. He's not playing at a high level in second-division Belgium, and he's already in his mid-20s.

I just don't know if this is a guy we should further develop and assign a roster spot to at a World Cup. I hope he can find a better club and prove he has a higher ceiling, but right now, that's a bit of a question mark. 

[InglewoodJack]

Hilarious, but also, did they really misspell JRR’s name on his jersey? That’s his mom replying 

 

[Gian-Luca]

 

[Obinna]

15 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

Because he plays for a terrible team in a terrible league and with what little we've been able to see/read about his performances, he's nothing special at Deinze either. People do forget that he always looks really good when he plays for us. I think if he somehow got moved to a team in Sweden, Scotland, a top division in countries like that, he'd go right back to being a call up lock for a lot of people here.

This.

Fraser is only the whipping boy because of where he plays. If he were playing in Belgian Pro A instead of Belgian Pro B he would be penciled into this particular team unanimously. 

I think eventually he's going to settle into a fitting club level. It's only a matter of time. Weren't there SPL rumours not to long ago?

[DeRo_Is_King]

5 minutes ago, Obinna said:

This.

Fraser is only the whipping boy because of where he plays. If he were playing in Belgian Pro A instead of Belgian Pro B he would be penciled into this particular team unanimously. 

I think eventually he's going to settle into a fitting club level. It's only a matter of time. Weren't there SPL rumours not to long ago?

It's not just about where he plays. It's that he's been given tons of opportunity with the national team to the detriment of other potentially more deserving players.

[CanSoccfan11]

1 hour ago, Bigandy said:

Interesting take. I would say my opinion is the complete opposite. 

Our back 3 at this tournament is our A squad (minus johnston) with kennedy, mcgraw, zator and bombito as supplemental guys. Thats by far our deepest position at this tournament. 

Wingback only has laryea and ZBG. Other guys are out of position if the play there. 

For DM's we dont have a single A level player. We have loturi who clearly is not able to start. Fraser who this board hates, and bombito whos played 3ish games at dm. DM is arguably our weakest spot on this roster. 

Sorry, I was talking about the team at full strength.

I would agree with your assessment with the team at this tournament.  

[InglewoodJack]

9 minutes ago, Obinna said:

This.

Fraser is only the whipping boy because of where he plays. If he were playing in Belgian Pro A instead of Belgian Pro B he would be penciled into this particular team unanimously. 

I think eventually he's going to settle into a fitting club level. It's only a matter of time. Weren't there SPL rumours not to long ago?

People also forget that when he signed with deinze, they had just gotten purchased by rich owners and were expected to get promoted- I would hope an MLS player could jump directly to the Belgian first tier, but not a completely crazy move to try and get promoted with a team that has a plan to become a contender in Belgium. Why he's still there now, I assume has to do with his contract, but I would imagine he can and will eventually move on.

Never heard the SPL rumors, but that would be a good level. If he was playing for Motherwell or Kilmarnock (or a team in Sweden, or Greece, or Denmark or etc.) people would be pencilling him in as an A-team starter.

 

3 minutes ago, DeRo_Is_King said:

It's not just about where he plays. It's that he's been given tons of opportunity with the national team to the detriment of other potentially more deserving players.

But that's the thing- deserving based on what? Club strength, there are other guys we can consider over him, but the fact remains that when he does play, he looks very good. Ultimately, you call guys in that play well for you over guys who might play well for you based on what they're doing elsewhere.

[BearcatSA]

Fraser is guy who has limitations but he is safer with maintaining possession than some other lauded players I watched yesterday and he understands what's expected in his role and plays within his limits.  

We can't giveaway possession with ill advised passes or too easily lose 1 v 1 dribbles/battles like I saw too often vs plucky Cuba.  

[mpg_29]

Atiba is retired, Eustaquio, Kone, Piette, MAK are not there.....why wouldn't Fraser be on the field?..who else would play DM?

I guess Bombito was but he also got injured.

 

[DeRo_Is_King]

28 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

But that's the thing- deserving based on what? Club strength, there are other guys we can consider over him, but the fact remains that when he does play, he looks very good. Ultimately, you call guys in that play well for you over guys who might play well for you based on what they're doing elsewhere.

This is a chicken-and-egg discussion. You have to try players out to know what you have.

Granted, it should be done strategically and the prospect has to show enough promise to challenge a starter, but I thought this was supposed to be an experimental tourney.

Yet, there is no Choiniere (an MLS all-star) and Loturi, who was given no playing time in the first two games.

If this tourney wasn't the time to test Choiniere and Loturi, when will it be?

Edited July 5, 2023 by DeRo_Is_King

[Unnamed Trialist]

Just now, Bigandy said:

Great points. If he was starting in first division belguim, I think the board would love him. I think its just hard to wrap our head around the fact that hes on the bench in div 2. His play for canada is at a higher standard than his club form and many of us cant reconcile that in our head. Although I do like fraser! 

 

Me too. Not like Brym, similar tier, always underperforming. Fraser is solid and reliable. Basically, it's not our fault he can't get his career in order.

The problem with the team is coaching because the US is definitely accessible if you set your mind to beating them.

[Obinna]

1 minute ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

The problem with the team is coaching because the US is definitely accessible if you set your mind to beating them.

Agreed.

People seem to think USA are unbeatable, but I don't see it that way at all.

They are the favourites for sure, but they are essentially a balanced team of well drilled good (but not great) players. Ferriera is in outstanding form, but there are no world beaters on this team. Matt Turner is arguably the exception here. He's not world class, but in the context of this tournament he may as well be. The rest of the players for the most part are superior to ours, yes, but not so much so that we cannot beat them if we get our tactics right and find the motivation to avenge our loss.  

We have players to cause them problems. Hoilett has the class and craft to create chances against this team. Miles Robinson is a beast and Neil is a great prospect, but Cavallini can be a handful for them. I would be surprised to see Cav dominate them, I don't think that happens, but he can and probably will make things uncomfortable at least. Millar is good enough to give fits to Jones, Tonkin, Yedlin or whoever the full backs are. He's athletic and direct and has the technical ability to give them a challenge. I think Nelson has the skill to do the same, but may have to rely more on his close control and brain than speed, considering the athleticism of the US. 

However, let me give respect where it's due. All of those defenders are also good enough to pocket Nelson and Millar. Robinson and Neil could pocket Cavallini and not give him a sniff. Hoilett (and Oso) can be outfought by the likes of Sands, Morris, or Roldan whoever starts for them. Laryea could have his hands full someone like Cade Cowell. Mihailovic and Busio are good enough to find pockets against a Canada midfield that's been too pedestryan and lax this tournament. Ferreira and Vazquez are finishers at this level and won't need many chances.  

I think if we play up to our very best we can turn this game into a coin flip. If we don't show up it can be a comfortable 2-0 for the USA. Same scenario as the NL, just two different sets of players (for the most part). 

[jhoops__]

The US roster shouldn’t scare anybody…

[BearcatSA]

1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Me too. Not like Brym, similar tier, always underperforming. Fraser is solid and reliable. Basically, it's not our fault he can't get his career in order.

The problem with the team is coaching because the US is definitely accessible if you set your mind to beating them.

This American team is very beatable but they are also even more motivated  They came into this tourney last time around with a similar squad make up and discovered that we were too tough a nut to crack.  Guys who participated then will have that in their memory rolodex.

If they turn it into a dick measuring contest, I like our chances.  If they play smart tactically, I think they have the advantage.

Edited July 5, 2023 by BearcatSA

[blueseeka]

30 minutes ago, jhoops__ said:

The US roster shouldn’t scare anybody…

Didnt scare me before the tournament but they have played really well. Much better than Canada

[Unnamed Trialist]

34 minutes ago, blueseeka said:

Didnt scare me before the tournament but they have played really well. Much better than Canada

That interim coach they have is pretty good, must admit. Like his focus, he's modest, they all fit nicely into the system and the set-up allows them all to shine. 

Herdman take note.

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 hour ago, Obinna said:

Agreed.

People seem to think USA are unbeatable, but I don't see it that way at all.

They are the favourites for sure, but they are essentially a balanced team of well drilled good (but not great) players. Ferriera is in outstanding form, but there are no world beaters on this team. Matt Turner is arguably the exception here. He's not world class, but in the context of this tournament he may as well be. The rest of the players for the most part are superior to ours, yes, but not so much so that we cannot beat them if we get our tactics right and find the motivation to avenge our loss.  

We have players to cause them problems. Hoilett has the class and craft to create chances against this team. Miles Robinson is a beast and Neil is a great prospect, but Cavallini can be a handful for them. I would be surprised to see Cav dominate them, I don't think that happens, but he can and probably will make things uncomfortable at least. Millar is good enough to give fits to Jones, Tonkin, Yedlin or whoever the full backs are. He's athletic and direct and has the technical ability to give them a challenge. I think Nelson has the skill to do the same, but may have to rely more on his close control and brain than speed, considering the athleticism of the US. 

However, let me give respect where it's due. All of those defenders are also good enough to pocket Nelson and Millar. Robinson and Neil could pocket Cavallini and not give him a sniff. Hoilett (and Oso) can be outfought by the likes of Sands, Morris, or Roldan whoever starts for them. Laryea could have his hands full someone like Cade Cowell. Mihailovic and Busio are good enough to find pockets against a Canada midfield that's been too pedestryan and lax this tournament. Ferreira and Vazquez are finishers at this level and won't need many chances.  

I think if we play up to our very best we can turn this game into a coin flip. If we don't show up it can be a comfortable 2-0 for the USA. Same scenario as the NL, just two different sets of players (for the most part). 

Good post.

What do we compare it to? I mean, it is not Brentford vs. Man City, It's not Cádiz vs. Real Madrid--and even then, look where the top teams in the top leagues lose points. Often, frequently, to the mid-lower midlevel teams. But that is not this match. It is the favoured and highest ranked team vs. the 4th highest. They are missing key players, so are we, but look what our best players did for us in the National League final, basically nothing.

The spread between us is in fact more marginal than definitive. 

[narduch]

50 minutes ago, blueseeka said:

Didnt scare me before the tournament but they have played really well. Much better than Canada

Pretty easy to look good v St. Kitts or Trinidad