Match Thread: Gold Cup - Group Stage: Canada vs Guatemala - Saturday July 1, 2023 - 9:30 pm ET/6:30 pm PT

[El Hombre]

Did Zac MacGraw look better when he moved over to the middle of a makeshift back 3 after Vitoria was subbed out.  Well, in order to talk myself off this ledge, I am going to say: Yes.

[toontownman]

2 minutes ago, El Hombre said:

Not sure I would give us a point after that game myself.  Maybe half a point, so I get what you are saying.  We're sitting on 1.5 points.

4.5 would still be good though. See I'm getting it!

[Corazon]

12 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

There were actually a handful of slips like that one.

Maybe the CSA has found somewhere to cut costs.

I know.  Just pointing out his two because one was almost costly and two in a short cameo stood out.  We were slipping all over the place out there.

[Addona]

56 minutes ago, Jack1997 said:

ZBG needs new boots

Seriously though… can we not afford cleats? In both games, players are slipping all over the place…

[Goal_Kick]

27 minutes ago, narduch said:

If Guatemala and Guadeloupe draw, we need to win by 2 to advance. 

If there is a winner in the Guatemala v Guadeloupe game then we advance with any win.

If we beat Cuba 1-0 and Guatemala and Guadeloupe tie, Guadeloupe would be in because of goal difference. But we'd be tied with Guatemala in points and goal difference.  What's the second tie-breaker?

[Gian-Luca]

10 minutes ago, Goal_Kick said:

If we beat Cuba 1-0 and Guatemala and Guadeloupe tie, Guadeloupe would be in because of goal difference. But we'd be tied with Guatemala in points and goal difference.  What's the second tie-breaker?

It's normally goals scored. So it would depend on what the draw was between the two - 3-3 would knock us out under the circumstance above, but also seems (knock on wood) unlikely. Guatemala don't give up much but don't score much, which ultimately is why they got knocked out of the first round of WCQ by Curacao (even though they never conceded a goal in all 4 matches, IIRC). In any case, just best to beat Cuba by 2-3 goals and not worry about a draw taking us out.

[Watchmen]

All things considered, I think I'm still more discouraged by the Guadalupe game: at home against a non-FIFA (albeit not bad) team vs in the heat of Houston against the #8 CONCACAF team.

[Goal_Kick]

6 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

It's normally goals scored. So it would depend on what the draw was between the two - 3-3 would knock us out under the circumstance above, but also seems (knock on wood) unlikely.

Thanks.

Just for fun, lets take this a step further: if Guatemala and Guadeloupe tie 2-2 and we beat Cuba 1-0, we'd even be tied with Guatemala on goals scored.

Any idea on what the third tie-breaker is?

[MauditYvon]

1 minute ago, Goal_Kick said:

Any idea on what the third tie-breaker is?

Probably disciplinary (yellow cards)

[Free kick]

1 hour ago, El Hombre said:

Fuck, how did Brennan get from Houston back to the One Soccer studios so fast?  

[Goal_Kick]

6 minutes ago, MauditYvon said:

Probably disciplinary (yellow cards)

So the five yellow cards we picked up today could come back to bite us.

I'm beginning to think we know what the scores are going to be on Tuesday.

[TGAA_Star]

Canada are trash like God damn trash seriously what in the hell are we even doing here? We have no damn business at this Gold Cup 

[xabuep2]

1 hour ago, footballfreak said:

As bad as we have been, we should still thump Cuba and advance.

As Santo Tomas would say: seeing is believing

[Obinna]

So I watched this game at a family BBQ for Canada day. It was just background stuff for most people, aside from myself and my cousin, who is a hockey guy but watched our WCQ campaign closely and our WC. He asked me why were looked so bad and he had nothing but negative things to say about what he saw on the field. With kids and such running around, I was really only half watching myself, compared to how I usually watch these games, so I couldn't really break down the performance, all I could do is nod and agree that we were playing bad. I tried to explain we were playing with a B side. Then I had to explain what that even meant and before I could get into the minutia about why our A players were gone something happened to derail the conversation - because it was a family BBQ.

However, I was very happy to watch the team I love on Canada Day at a semi-big family gathering. That was definitely a first for me. It's nice that our team finally not a joke and has enough mainstream acceptance that it is not weird like it would have years past when Canadian men's soccer was a massive joke. However, it's too bad the performance and the result was so bad. Maybe I am overreacting about one game, but these bad showings need to be few and far between if we want to keep the momentum going about how the general public views this team and this program. 

Edited July 2, 2023 by Obinna

[Bison44]

^^  The good thing is that the general public didnt see this game.  Anyone streaming this on Onesoccer, or FS1 or fubo, probably gets B squads and offseason tounies.  If it was on CBC maybe a bunch of newbs would be watching for the first time.  

[Mattd97]

You know we're in a rough spot when we're thankful we're not popular enough for real TV cause ppl would be turned off by how crap we are

[BearcatSA]

No final ball and no one on the end of it who poses a multi-faceted threat to putting away any service that does get in to him.  So that's that.

We knew going into this tourney that this would be a goal shy side, so I don't think anyone should be surprised with that.  Laryea's sneaky acceleration on the dribble makes things happen down the right but otherwise we didn't generate anything consistently menacing.  Then, when they had one defensive breakdown late in the game, the technical limitations of the player receiving the ball turned a gilt-edged chance into a save:  brave keeping but Shaffelburg should have buried that one.

It's a team of supporting cast actors missing a leading man or two, especially in attack.  And though Guatemala worked hard, they also lack the quality needed to punish an opponent.  Seems appropriate:  this edition of the Gold Cup has more of the NIT tourney feel to it than a March Madness.

Edited July 2, 2023 by BearcatSA

[Addona]

5 hours ago, Kadenge said:

And to think we got the easiest group 

 

5 hours ago, narduch said:

If Guatemala and Guadeloupe draw, we need to win by 2 to advance. 

If there is a winner in the Guatemala v Guadeloupe game then we advance with any win.

Wouldn’t a 1 goal win do unless Guat-Guad tie 3-3 or higher? And, if they tie 2-2, does it go to cards? Or a drawing of lots?

[gwsmith63]

Found this on ussoccer.com;

 

TOURNAMENT NOTES

Should teams be tied on points at the end of the group stage, the following tiebreakers will be used:

Goal difference

Number of goals scored

Greatest number of points obtained in matches between the tied teams

Greater goal difference in matches between the tied teams

Greater number of goals scored in matches among tied teams

Lowest number of points based on yellow and red cards in group matches (first yellow card = 1 pt., second yellow card/indirect red card = 3 pts., direct red card = +4 pts., yellow card and direct red card = +5 pts.)

Drawing of lots by Concacaf

 

[Bertuzzi44]

Once again I feel Herdman got the tactics, and especially the substitutions wrong.

I have no idea how Brym is ahead of JRR on Herdman's depth chart. Especially after JRR's own goal last game, I would have given him a run out. He may have had a chip on his shoulder.

Ahmed had a quiet 1st half, but was much better in the 2nd and starting to get a rhythm. And then he gets taken off? When we need some offense?? And for .... Wotherspoon??? Honestly shocking. 

Meanwhile,

Osorio looked dead tired and completely out of ideas after 60mins. Bombito was poor again in my opinion. Playing in midfield, he really does not create anything or even pass it forward very often. 

At 60mins, these are the changes I would have made:
Bombito out Loturi in
Osorio out JRR in (Hoilett moved to midfield)
Millar out Nelson in 

This leaves Ahmed and Hoilett on, while adding attackers Jayden Nelson and JRR. Instead we got wotherspoon, brym, shaffelburg. Not very inspiring. Unless we were going for the 0-0 draw, in which case, nicely done Herdman 👍

[trc2014]

4 minutes ago, Bertuzzi44 said:

Once again I feel Herdman got the tactics, and especially the substitutions wrong.

I have no idea how Brym is ahead of JRR on Herdman's depth chart. Especially after JRR's own goal last game, I would have given him a run out. He may have had a chip on his shoulder.

Ahmed had a quiet 1st half, but was much better in the 2nd and starting to get a rhythm. And then he gets taken off? When we need some offense?? And for .... Wotherspoon??? Honestly shocking. 

Meanwhile,

Osorio looked dead tired and completely out of ideas after 60mins. Bombito was poor again in my opinion. Playing in midfield, he really does not create anything or even pass it forward very often. 

At 60mins, these are the changes I would have made:
Bombito out Loturi in
Osorio out JRR in (Hoilett moved to midfield)
Millar out Nelson in 

This leaves Ahmed and Hoilett on, while adding attackers Jayden Nelson and JRR. Instead we got wotherspoon, brym, shaffelburg. Not very inspiring. Unless we were going for the 0-0 draw, in which case, nicely done Herdman 👍

In the post JH said Hoilett was hurt.

Edited July 2, 2023 by trc2014

[trc2014]

JH’s view that this game was great experience to feel what it’s like to play away in concacaf was correct (hot and humid conditions, extremely loud, etc.). All the more reason to start DSC.

[narduch]

1 hour ago, Addona said:

 

Wouldn’t a 1 goal win do unless Guat-Guad tie 3-3 or higher? And, if they tie 2-2, does it go to cards? Or a drawing of lots?

Yes. But a 2 goal win is guaranteed advancement. 

That's what they should be playing for.

The games will also be simultaneous

[trc2014]

https://twitter.com/CanadaSoccerEN/status/1675373496493277184/mediaViewer?currentTweet=1675373496493277184&currentTweetUser=CanadaSoccerEN
 

First sign of defeat.  “Mission” is now to get to QF.

[Floortom]

12 minutes ago, trc2014 said:

https://twitter.com/CanadaSoccerEN/status/1675373496493277184/mediaViewer?currentTweet=1675373496493277184&currentTweetUser=CanadaSoccerEN
 

First sign of defeat.  “Mission” is now to get to QF.

In fairness, it does no good to be delusional. Realistically, QF is our ceiling here. Get to the CF and hope for a miracle.