Match Thread: Gold Cup - Group Stage: Canada vs Guadeloupe - Tuesday, June 27, 2023 - 7 pm ET/4 pm PT

[Pottsy3]

I was pleasantly surprised by the turnout to the game, all things considered. 

As for the match itself, McGraw looked interesting but I just don't see how him and Vitoria can share the field. Once Vitoria retires however, his aerial presence and physicality could thrust him into a regular starting position. He just looks really heavy on his feet.

Bombito didn't look as physically imposing as I expected. He was much more mobile than McGraw, and aside from the post-game comments I would've liked to see how he'd fit on the backline beside Vitoria.

As has been said elsewhere, Ahmed was the clear best player on the field. If this form continues, he should be considered for our midfield every window. With Atiba's departure, MAK's fall off and Piette's injury woes, midfield should be a position where minutes can be earned in the near future. If only there was an MLS all star quality midfielder who could've shown their chops in this tournament too...

Richie was normal Richie imo, the second best player on our side last night in my opinion.

Unfortunate ending for JRR, but he's someone that I hope gets more opportunity as the tournament goes on. 

Not gonna overreact to hard. But I sure hope we do a better job of linking up between our midfield and forward next match. Feels like the times of old where Larin was on an island up top.

 

[jonovision]

6 minutes ago, Floortom said:

Some of the expectations here are frighteningly low IMO. We drew a home match vs. Guadeloupe and apparently most of the squad played well. In my view, most of the players were quite poor or average at best (especially in the context of a home match vs. team that isnt even top 100 in the world based on ELO). Ahmed showed upside which is nice, but even he as MOTM, was just solid at best IMO.  

The most disconcerting part about last night is many of the performances that were subpar were from players that are not new to the MNT or to Herdman's system. Osorio, Cavallini in the first half, Vitoria, Miller, Borjan (though I don't blame him on either of the goals). Laryea was decent, but I thought he made a major error on the first goal against.

The rest of the Canada squad is a collection of players, thrown together with minimal preparation, playing against a Guadeloupe squad whose talent level is very similar and who have been together for weeks qualiying for this tournament.

[nolando]

This is exactly what I expected this side to look like without our top four or five players. Exactly the Canada I followed for  all the previous incarnations of Canada during my lifetime. Uninspiring, uneven, lacking in every dimension including cohesion and confidence and, most certainly, not a powerhouse in our confederation.

Somewhat sadly, it's all very familiar to me.

Fortunately this is a one off, mostly inconsequential tournament and, while not here at the moment, we DO have those half dozen players of true class. So we move on.

[youllneverwalkalone]

5 minutes ago, nolando said:

This is exactly what I expected this side to look like without our top four or five players. Exactly the Canada I followed for  all the previous incarnations of Canada during my lifetime. Uninspiring, uneven, lacking in every dimension including cohesion and confidence and, most certainly, not a powerhouse in our confederation.

Somewhat sadly, it's all very familiar to me.

Fortunately this is a one off, mostly inconsequential tournament and, while not here at the moment, we DO have those half dozen players of true class. So we move on.

I bet 10 years ago we'd actually be gushing about Ahmed and Bombito and playing up the possession stats and the gritty second half comeback (and of course blaming the incompetent manager for those late subs lol).

One thing that is really different is that we still have depth beyond the big names missing. Sirois, Farsi, Kerr, Raposo, would be 100% first team call ups 10 years ago.

[Kadenge]

What is clear over the past 12 months, is that we need to replace at least 2 of our regular starters at CB, 1 in midfield and probably keeper before Copa and 2026 WC.  We also need to upgrade our subs for the striker & mid positions AND hope that JH/coaching staff improve tactically and with their selections. Btw, I thought the set piece  which Canada almost scored on was one of the first where it looked like we had actually done some prep work. Richie should have squared it to several players who were wide open to the left of the keeper.

[gator]

It was always going to be a bit of a struggle with all the new faces in the lineup and the quality we were missing so I am not shocked at the result, I thought we had done just enough for the 3 points but we just failed to see it out! Like everyone else here I thought Ahmed was a real bright spot, Laryea played fairly well but made a couple of key errors, the whole back 3 were suspect at times, Osorio wasn't at his best, Millar looked real dangerous when the team actually noticed he was in space all night, he made some nice crosses into dangerous positions! The crowd was bigger than I expected all things considered and I though we brought the noise, it is always great to catch up with so many wonderful V's and I finally met my fellow Forge V @Markoaleks 👍

Edited June 28, 2023 by gator

[Obinna]

First off, Vitoria and Miller were poor. Vitoria was surprising and I don't read much into it aside from "bad games happen". I don't think it's a sign of decline or anything like that. Simply put, players have bad games. He was excellent in the Nations League final and made big mistakes last night. It happens. 

Miller on the other hand I have less leniency towards. Not saying I want him out of the squad, but I really expect better for a guy who's done so well given his technical and even physical limitations. Poor in the air, not much pace, misplaced passes, there's just so much to be critical about. I feel like he needs a break and should be rotated out. He's started a lot of big games for us in the last two years. A lot of big games for his club. His performances for both are getting progressively worse. I really think a rest is needed. Let Kennedy play in the role, at least for the next game, then perhaps Miller bounces back after watching from the bench. 

McGraw was a little underwhelming, but there's a valuable player there I think. Willing to give him another look, possibly in the middle of a back 3. Is Guatemala the game to do so and give Vitoria a rest? Not sure. That's Herdman's call.

Bombito showed good and bad. Defensively he could be a weapon as a DM. On the ball he looks to have a decent baseline in terms of technical ability, but very obviously needs to get cleaner with his decision making. That'll come with reps so I am not worried. Happy to have him on board.

Ahmed was the obvious standout of the debutants, and the team in general. Vancouver fans warned us that he's very good and they were proven right. He reminds me of Laryea in many ways. Great combination of speed, agility, directness, and intelligence. For me it's the intelligence and decision making that I enjoyed most, I think. He'll only get better playing with better players. I want to cap Choniere as much as the next guy, but I can see why Herdman picked Ahmed over him. Right now he seems like a good Osorio replacement moving forward. 

Finally, I didn't like how Herdman took Hoilett and especially Millar off. I was gutted for Millar especially, who clearly showed up with something to prove. Was having a great match and was one of our biggest threats, as I expected he would be. Shaff did fine when he came on, and I am glad he did, but I would rather see that change later on in the match.

Hoilett was pulling the strings and should have been kept on. Not much more to add. Everyone saw the same thing. I get that Herdman premeditates his subs, which is necessary to an extent, but I would have liked to see more flexibility there. It was a gamble making those changes without the match being secured and it came back to bite us. 

Result is what it is. Disappointing but we move on to the next one. Like Herdman said, we got to get the W now against Guatemala. Another game that won't be easy. 

[footballfreak]

12 hours ago, VinceA said:

The discourse on Social Media is becoming to USMNT-Y. Too many delusional takes from fans who don't actually know the realities of Canadian Soccer.

I don’t see the point of using those platforms for discussing Canadian soccer. Especially when we have plenty of delusional takes here at home.

 

1 hour ago, Wasp said:

This to me was the biggest head-scratcher, especially when you have Loturi, a natural 6, who still hasn't seen the field even though this is his third camp.

If we are determined to stick with a back 3, we need mobile CB's who won't get torched in transition and Bombito seems to be literally our only CB option other than Johnston who fits that bill. Would've much rather seen him replace Johnston in the RCB role and have Loturi start as the 6 instead of throwing Bombito into an unnatural position in his first game and first camp.

I’d be curious to see McGraw in the Vitoria role where his speed is less of a problem, with Bombito at RCB as you say.

[InglewoodJack]

52 minutes ago, Floortom said:

Some of the expectations here are frighteningly low IMO. We drew a home match vs. Guadeloupe and apparently most of the squad played well. In my view, most of the players were quite poor or average at best (especially in the context of a home match vs. team that isnt even top 100 in the world based on ELO). Ahmed showed upside which is nice, but even he as MOTM, was just solid at best IMO.  

Who is saying that the whole squad was good? I think most people are saying that McGraw, Vitoria, Miller weren’t great, Cavallini was pretty bad outside of his goal, Osorio was awful. Not to mention, it’s our B team. What makes Ali Ahmed or Liam Fraser stick out is much different than what Davies or David need to do to stick out. Barring that last minute fuck up, we would’ve won an easy game against a bad opponent with all of our good players missing and at least one player (Ahmed) looking like he has potential for the A team. 

[mtroads]

As for the crowd, it would've looked much better at the start of the game if the bag restrictions were better highlighted. There were much tighter restrictions than TFC or normal Canada games and most people didn't find out until they tried to get through security. The line to check bags by gate 3 was ridiculously long with a lot of confused people having to check purses, ball bags and small backpacks that would've typically been allowed.

[gator]

16 minutes ago, mtroads said:

As for the crowd, it would've looked much better at the start of the game if the bag restrictions were better highlighted. There were much tighter restrictions than TFC or normal Canada games and most people didn't find out until they tried to get through security. The line to check bags by gate 3 was ridiculously long with a lot of confused people having to check purses, ball bags and small backpacks that would've typically been allowed.

Was there a difference though?  https://www.bmofield.com/plan-your-visit/bag-policy

BMO is more strict than Tim Hortons Field, I think they align with MLS policy for entry, I bought a "Stadium Bag" for $20 off Amazon specifically for BMO, perhaps BMO doesn't strictly enforce this at TFC matches but the policy is clearly defined! I know being a Concacaf event certain policies are different, they had to pour canned beer into a plastic cup for example just for this match, that can sure slow down a beer line! 😁🍺

 

[Pottsy3]

2 minutes ago, gator said:

Was there a difference though?  https://www.bmofield.com/plan-your-visit/bag-policy

BMO is more strict than Tim Hortons Field, I think they align with MLS policy for entry, I bought a "Stadium Bag" for $20 off Amazon specifically for BMO, perhaps BMO doesn't strictly enforce this at TFC matches but the policy is clearly defined! I know being a Concacaf event certain policies are different, they had to pour canned beer into a plastic cup for example just for this match, that can sure slow down a beer line! 😁🍺

 

I also felt there were some differences being enforced with bag checking that slowed down the lines, but also the 7pm start time + the choke point from the Indy setup didn’t help with stadium entrance times. 

[mtroads]

6 minutes ago, gator said:

Was there a difference though?  https://www.bmofield.com/plan-your-visit/bag-policy

BMO is more strict than Tim Hortons Field, I think they align with MLS policy for entry, I bought a "Stadium Bag" for $20 off Amazon specifically for BMO, perhaps BMO doesn't strictly enforce this at TFC matches but the policy is clearly defined! I know being a Concacaf event certain policies are different, they had to pour canned beer into a plastic cup for example just for this match, that can sure slow down a beer line! 😁🍺

 

The biggest difference is that the bags had to be clear plastic. They were sending anyone with opaque bags to bag check.

[gator]

7 minutes ago, mtroads said:

The biggest difference is that the bags had to be clear plastic. They were sending anyone with opaque bags to bag check.

That is not a difference though, it states bags must be clear and within a certain dimension in their policy hence why I purchased the approved bag! It looks like we have a no megaphone policy at BMO now as well thanks to an angry capo throwing his megaphone at MAK!📣

[TGAA_Star]

2 hours ago, nolando said:

This is exactly what I expected this side to look like without our top four or five players. Exactly the Canada I followed for  all the previous incarnations of Canada during my lifetime. Uninspiring, uneven, lacking in every dimension including cohesion and confidence and, most certainly, not a powerhouse in our confederation.

Somewhat sadly, it's all very familiar to me.

Fortunately this is a one off, mostly inconsequential tournament and, while not here at the moment, we DO have those half dozen players of true class. So we move on.

Canada just frustrate me

[ADP10]

Really surprised that BMO would not let people hold up their flags pre game. Not sure why and who put in that order

[CanSoccfan11]

The group looked like a team that had very little chemistry.   

[Ottawafan]

12 minutes ago, CanSoccfan11 said:

The group looked like a team that had very little chemistry.   

True.  Part of the process with this group.

[Ansem]

Anyone else said to themselves:

Finally a forward who's not afraid to bring the ball to the middle instead of just attacking/relying on the sides when they saw Brym?

He just needs to shoot more often.

 

Also, Ahmed always trying to push the ball forward - very refreshing.

But..  can we stop playing guys out of position???

Edited June 28, 2023 by Ansem

[TOcanadafan]

5 hours ago, ADP10 said:

Really surprised that BMO would not let people hold up their flags pre game. Not sure why and who put in that order

I saw security confiscate a (smaller / cheap) Canadian Flag from a 10 yr old because it was on a (flimsy) plastic stick.  The rules were ridiculous for this game.

[rydermike]

So since Guadeloupe isn't a FIFA team, even though this was a continental tournament, does that mean it wasn't an official "cap-tying game"? 

[Bison44]

Just now, rydermike said:

So since Guadeloupe isn't a FIFA team, even though this was a continental tournament, does that mean it wasn't an official "cap-tying game"? 

Awwwwwwwww, shittttttt.

[maplebanana]

20 minutes ago, rydermike said:

So since Guadeloupe isn't a FIFA team, even though this was a continental tournament, does that mean it wasn't an official "cap-tying game"? 

I remember about 10-12 years ago we had this exact conversation, and there was some doubt as to whether or not a GC game against FG/Martinique/Guadeloupe counted as cap tying since they are non-FIFA associations (i.e. if it's not a recognized team, was there ever really a game?). I don't know if there was ever a conclusion or counter-example.

I brought this up again a few years later with one of my first posts and was quickly told I was an idiot. So maybe someone knows the rules more than I do (a definite possibility).

[Cadeau]

I think the next two games should be wins, and should right our fledgling ship for the moment being.

[sose]

2 hours ago, TOcanadafan said:

I saw security confiscate a (smaller / cheap) Canadian Flag from a 10 yr old because it was on a (flimsy) plastic stick.  The rules were ridiculous for this game.

security was also moving people in 113 and 114 for being in the wrong seats.. this is the first time i've seen that in a loooong time in those sections.