Match Thread: Gold Cup - Group Stage: Canada vs Guadeloupe - Tuesday, June 27, 2023 - 7 pm ET/4 pm PT

[narduch]

2023 Concacaf Gold Cup - Group Stage - Matchday 1

Canada vs Guadeloupe

Tuesday June 27, 2023 - 7 pm ET/4 pm PT - Las Vegas

Venue: BMO Field, Toronto

Canada Roster:

 

Guadeloupe Roster:

Referee:

 

Edited June 25, 2023 by narduch

[VinceA]

I don't want to say I'm pre-annoyed, but the expectation that Vitoria and Borjan will eat up minutes that are better served elsewhere is disappointing.

I know people have said that St. Clair will start, but I've never known Borjan to enjoy being on the bench, nor do I think Herdman will bench one of his leaders.

[Obinna]

5 minutes ago, VinceA said:

I don't want to say I'm pre-annoyed, but the expectation that Vitoria and Borjan will eat up minutes that are better served elsewhere is disappointing.

I know people have said that St. Clair will start, but I've never known Borjan to enjoy being on the bench, nor do I think Herdman will bench one of his leaders.

I would be disappointed for St. Clair not to start, but I am totally okay with Vitoria starting. McGraw will get rotated in at some point. I think it's better to start games off with Vitoria at the beginning, then as the tournament goes on McGraw can start if he's earned it. 

If he's not a clear upgrade on Vitoria during the group stage, you got to start Vitoria in the knockouts. Simple as that.

While I am here, I'll take a stab at the starting lineup:

-------------Cavallini----Hoilett-------

Adekugbe-Spoony-Eustaquio-Oso--Laryea

-------Miller--Vitoria--McGraw/Bombito---

----------------St.Clair/Borjan----------

Off the bench I think Loturi, JRR and McGraw/Bombito make their debuts, I think Brym gets minutes. I think ZBG gets minutes. I think Zator possibly makes his debut. 

[trc2014]

34 minutes ago, VinceA said:

I don't want to say I'm pre-annoyed, but the expectation that Vitoria and Borjan will eat up minutes that are better served elsewhere is disappointing.

I know people have said that St. Clair will start, but I've never known Borjan to enjoy being on the bench, nor do I think Herdman will bench one of his leaders.

This is the one group stage game I hope for less rotation.  I think this is the hardest game of the group.

[spitfire]

The level of disrespect is palpable sorry... most of you don't even have Liam getting on the pitch...Herdman gave him #11...

Liam played 46 games this season in the Swiss Super league and the Europa Conference league.. 1 goal 4 assists mostly from wing back. Semi finalist of the Europa confenrce league(lost in extra time..)Last Canadian standing  in European comps this year...FC Basel Career Stats - 92 games 11 goals 10 assists, 18 Europa League games 3 goals 2 assists...

Just crazy how he is the forgotten player replaced by people have "Good" seasons in the MLS...shocking to me. Liam has never been given an actual good run at playing HIS actual position for Canada and before you mention the Jamaica game he was the best player on the pitch statically (look it up) but didn't bury his chance(not sure if oyu have seen the USA/ Jamaica game but BLake was the MOTM again)so he got hammered by the fans..

Rant over he has something to prove and it seems even to most Canada fans... I'm sure I will delete this soon so read it quick....

 

Edited June 25, 2023 by spitfire

[Obinna]

11 minutes ago, spitfire said:

The level of disrespect is palpable sorry... most of you don't even have Liam getting on the pitch...Herdman gave him #11...

Liam played 46 games this season 1 goal 4 assists mostly from wing back. Semi finalist of the Europa confenrce league(lost in extra time..)Last Canadian standing  in European comps this year...FC Basel Career Stats - 92 games 11 goals 10 assists, 18 Europa League games 3 goals 2 assists...

Just crazy how he is the forgotten player replaced by people have "Good" seasons in the MLS...shocking to me. Liam has never been given an actual good run at playing HIS actual position for Canada and before you mention the Jamaica game he was the best player on the pitch statically (look it up) but didn't bury his chance(not sure if oyu have seen the USA/ Jamaica game but BLake was the MOTM again)so he got hammered by the fans..

Rant over he has something to prove and it seems even to most Canada fans... I'm sure I will delete this soon so read it quick....

 

I meant to include Millar in here actually, but got too lazy to go back and edit it, to be honest. You are right, Liam should be in there from the start and I highlighted him in the Gold Cup 2023 thread as one of our keys going forward this tournament. 

I actually think it's time to start trying Liam up top in a 2 if we play that way. If we go 3 up top, then in a 3. Either way, he not only deserves a run in the team, but we are going to need him this tournament. I am a little concerned about where the chances are going to come from and Millar needs to be a solution for us here.

[SF]

18 minutes ago, spitfire said:

The level of disrespect is palpable sorry... most of you don't even have Liam getting on the pitch...Herdman gave him #11...

Liam played 46 games this season in the Swiss Super league and the Europa Conference league.. 1 goal 4 assists mostly from wing back. Semi finalist of the Europa confenrce league(lost in extra time..)Last Canadian standing  in European comps this year...FC Basel Career Stats - 92 games 11 goals 10 assists, 18 Europa League games 3 goals 2 assists...

Just crazy how he is the forgotten player replaced by people have "Good" seasons in the MLS...shocking to me. Liam has never been given an actual good run at playing HIS actual position for Canada and before you mention the Jamaica game he was the best player on the pitch statically (look it up) but didn't bury his chance(not sure if oyu have seen the USA/ Jamaica game but BLake was the MOTM again)so he got hammered by the fans..

Rant over he has something to prove and it seems even to most Canada fans... I'm sure I will delete this soon so read it quick....

 

Good rant and fair play - what would you consider his best position now? 

[Obinna]

Should also mention my line up was what I think Herdman will do, not what I would do. Even still, I think Herdman puts Millar in there, somewhere, possibly for Spoony if we go 3 at the back.

So maybe:

----------Cav--Millar-----

-----Hoilett--Oso--Eustaquio--

Adekugbe------------------------Laryea

----Miller--Vitoria--McGraw(Bombito)----

That said, if he wants to go 4 in the back, it may be something like:

Hoilett-----Cavallini----Millar

Oso-------Eustaquio---Hoilett

Adekugbe--Miller-Vitoria-Laryea

This is our strongest/most experienced line up, but something tells me Bombito or McGraw will start, and I am leaning Bombito. Again, not because I would, just have that feeling from Herdman. 

I also feel like that means a back 3, which then means Millar up top or Millar at wingback. I also think he starts Laryea and Adekugbe for the opener, assuming everyone is healthy. Will be interesting.

 

[spitfire]

16 minutes ago, SF said:

Good rant and fair play - what would you consider his best position now? 

you know football is a crazy game now..arguably the best attacking players in the world are wingers..Salah Vini Jr, mbappe, Grealish, Neymar...there are so many..but the majority of teams are moving away from wingers (pure wingers in a 4-3-3) most are going to a 3 back with wing backs 3-5-2, 3-4-3... I think players need to adapt and evolve if they want a long career..

Liam has been open to evolving..playing wing back, lm, right mid...all over the park but fumnny enough not up front(which he spent half of his youth career playing in the 9 scoring 65 goals at fulham fc at u16 last time he palyed in the 9 professionally was Kilmarnock.. i actually see him lethal in the front two..

...I think going forward if teams stick with wing backs players like Liam(or Tajon or even Alphonso) will have to either play wing back(which I don't think is any of their best positions) or look to move inside..there has been talk of Liam playing inside in a pocket player part of the middle three in behind the 2 strikers, or as even one of the 2 strikers...

His best position Right Now.. I think Left wing in a 4-3-3 or up front in the 2..but honestly anywhere he can get at the ball and run at players believe it or not he scares the shit out of people when he does that... he has worked very hard to be fit and ready in this offseason the fittest ive seen him in a long time for the Gold cup and takes palying for Canada with extreme pride and respect and wants to really help Canada go far in the Gold Cup...

Edited June 25, 2023 by spitfire

[VinceA]

44 minutes ago, spitfire said:

The level of disrespect is palpable sorry... most of you don't even have Liam getting on the pitch...Herdman gave him #11...

Liam played 46 games this season in the Swiss Super league and the Europa Conference league.. 1 goal 4 assists mostly from wing back. Semi finalist of the Europa confenrce league(lost in extra time..)Last Canadian standing  in European comps this year...FC Basel Career Stats - 92 games 11 goals 10 assists, 18 Europa League games 3 goals 2 assists...

Just crazy how he is the forgotten player replaced by people have "Good" seasons in the MLS...shocking to me. Liam has never been given an actual good run at playing HIS actual position for Canada and before you mention the Jamaica game he was the best player on the pitch statically (look it up) but didn't bury his chance(not sure if oyu have seen the USA/ Jamaica game but BLake was the MOTM again)so he got hammered by the fans..

Rant over he has something to prove and it seems even to most Canada fans... I'm sure I will delete this soon so read it quick....

 

I'm very interested to see how Liam is deployed this tournament.

Edited June 25, 2023 by VinceA

[youllneverwalkalone]

I feel like we're going to need another striker to emerge. Cavallini and Oso have great chemistry. Junior always up for Jamaica. Maybe Liam could play in front of Hoilett?

Back to Vitoria and Borjan, I really want to win this tourney. I don't see this as experiment time. Even Guadalupe have a pretty decent side on paper. Let's put out our best 11 and make a statement here.

[TGAA_Star]

Plus playing at home for this Gold Cup in Toronto at BMO Field but for only 1 game is so messed up...I would rather for future Gold Cup tournaments rather than USA hosting, that we host it in other countries like hosting it in Mexico or hosting it in Canada or even hosting it in other central American countries or Caribbean countries because if you do it like that, it gives the tournament more parity or more meaning

[dyslexic nam]

17 hours ago, youllneverwalkalone said:

Back to Vitoria and Borjan, I really want to win this tourney. I don't see this as experiment time. Even Guadalupe have a pretty decent side on paper. Let's put out our best 11 and make a statement here.

The issue for me is that I don't see us winning with this squad.  I think we can compete and do reasonably well, but I doubt we win it given the way the other teams (Mex, US, Jamaica) are playing.  Insofar as that is true, I think this is the time to experiment - at least a bit.  If not now, when we have decided not to field our A team, then when?  Friendlies usually present an opportunity for us to get the A team back together when they haven't played for a while.  Camps are few and far between.  Etc.  I know people want to win something but if we don't take this chance o do some experimentation, I am not sure when we will get to see some new blood.  The budget simply isn't there (apparently) for us to arrange B friendlies.  

[youllneverwalkalone]

I would presume that we will have lots of experiment time when the rest of CONCACAF are qualifying for 2026? I'm not sure exactly who is available beyond the US and Mexico, but there must matches for us in those windows.

[TGAA_Star]

4 minutes ago, youllneverwalkalone said:

I would presume that we will have lots of experiment time when the rest of CONCACAF are qualifying for 2026? I'm not sure exactly who is available beyond the US and Mexico, but there must matches for us in those windows.

Yeah well we have Copa America 2024 but even then we can play friendlies between now and then and also even after Copa but then 2025 we have the Gold Cup again which could be time for yet another experiment. Then post GC 25 we could also play friendlies too leading up into the 2026 FIFA World Cup.

[dyslexic nam]

19 minutes ago, youllneverwalkalone said:

I would presume that we will have lots of experiment time when the rest of CONCACAF are qualifying for 2026? I'm not sure exactly who is available beyond the US and Mexico, but there must matches for us in those windows.

For me that will be the crucial time where we will want to re-establish the sort of familiarity and chemistry we saw throughout WCQ.  

[youllneverwalkalone]

12 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

For me that will be the crucial time where we will want to re-establish the sort of familiarity and chemistry we saw throughout WCQ.  

Sure, but might we not have windows for 10-15 matches? Maybe more? I'd agree on the last 5 or so, but the first 5-10 would give you lots of time to work in new players.

[narduch]

Roster update.

 

[beachesl]

Anybody got a lead on free streaming for us out-of-continent expats? Is concacaf go covering it? Thanks.😄

[trc2014]

6 minutes ago, narduch said:

Roster update.

 

Yikes - making the SF would be a big win now.

[gator]

4 minutes ago, narduch said:

Roster update.

 

Those could be significant losses for us as I don't think the replacements are of equal caliber, I was a little surprised that Eustaquio was there to begin with and maybe this is where Millar's versatility will be required, Fraser always seems to do the job for us despite his club situation!

[CanadaFan123]

So when we were talking about winning trophies what our players actually meant was that their replacements would win said trophies… got it. 

[costarg]

Here's a little game of logic.....

Our strongest and deepest positions are wingers and fullbacks, 100% confident we all agree.

We're weakest and have no "strong" depth at CB.  101% we all agree.

So what do we do?  Play in a back 3 formation which limits us to only 2 of our strongest players and forces us to play 3 of our weakest players.  Is there even an ounce of logic or common sense is in this?

Logic would imply 4-4-2 or 4-3-3/4-5-1. 

Cavallini - JRR

Millar - Stache - Osorio - Hoilett

Adekugbe - Macgraw - Vitoria - Laryea

 

[Ottawafan]

What are we expecting for attendance?

[Bigandy]

9 minutes ago, costarg said:

Here's a little game of logic.....

Our strongest and deepest positions are wingers and fullbacks, 100% confident we all agree.

We're weakest and have no "strong" depth at CB.  101% we all agree.

So what do we do?  Play in a back 3 formation which limits us to only 2 of our strongest players and forces us to play 3 of our weakest players.  Is there even an ounce of logic or common sense is in this?

Logic would imply 4-4-2 or 4-3-3/4-5-1. 

Cavallini - JRR

Millar - Stache - Osorio - Hoilett

Adekugbe - Macgraw - Vitoria - Laryea

 

There is quite a bit of logic (for our regular squad, not the gold cup).

Even though we have lots of depth at winger and full back, it is wing back where our stars play best (davies, buchanan, even laryea and adekugbe). A 3-5-2 allows us to also play both david and larin. A back 3 also has covered up quite a bit of deficiencies within our CB pool. Lets say we play a 4-3-3.

Davies cornelius vitoria johnston
Staq kone oso
Buchanan David Hoilett/Larin?

In a 4-3-3 both laryea and adekugbe do not start so fullback depth is irrelevant for our starters. As for wingers, we only really have buchanan (assuming davies is going to be a LB/LWB from now on.) So we either drop larin or play him out of position. Davies is also stifled with more defensive responsibility and buchanan is also arguably better as a wingback. 

Ranking our players and their best position.
1. Davies - WB
2. David - St
3. Staq - CM
4. Larin - St
5. Buchanan - WB
6. Johnston - RB
7. Kone - CM
8. Laryea - WB
9. Oso - CM
10. vitoria -CB 
11. Adekgube - Equal at LB/LWB
12. Hoilett - Winger

Based on the list above, its clearer that the system that gets our best players in their best position is a 2 striker formation with wingbacks. Now obviously you can question that tactical acumen of such a formation, but if we are just looking at what suits our squad, I think the 3-5-2 is logical. As great as adekugbe is, hes the guy that gets sacrified for another CB. I would much rather have 3 cb for the additional solidity defensively and to allow buchanan and davies more freedom in a wingback role.