CNL FINAL: Canada vs USA - Sunday, June 18th - 8:30 pm ET/5:30 pm PT - Las Vegas

[74 Whitecap]

Well, the good news (from a US v Canada perspective) is that we know Reyna won't be healthy for long (not that I wish any ill upon him) and that Berhalter is coming back!

Bad news is that Balogun seems like the real deal and fills in the biggest hole in their roster.  When you have a population of 330 million, you're just more likely to fill these holes.

From a Canada perspective, the result seems more disappointing than a 2-0 road loss vs the US should. Part of that is just that chances to win a trophy are so rare for us, you hate to lose a final, but moreso that, after drawing away and winning at home vs. the US in World Cup qualifying, we definitely were once again a step behind today, and that overall the performance didn't seem to have the same 'compete' level we saw in the World Cup run, despite putting our best team on the pitch.

Injuries definitely don't help, but there will always be injuries, and suspensions and so on. I guess, as we all know, the biggest question mark is how to shore up the backline and in goal going forward, as key pieces of the lineup age out.

Still it is not all bad news, we played in a regional final without having to win a coin toss to get this far, and for all our weakness today, we still looked better than Mexico, so some credit does have to go to a US team in good form. Also, Kone played well in a tough situation and that is good to see for the future.

Looking forward to seeing some new faces in red at the Gold Cup.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BearcatSA]

4 minutes ago, 74 Whitecap said:

From a Canada perspective, the result seems more disappointing than a 2-0 road loss vs the US should. Part of that is just that chances to win a trophy are so rare for us, you hate to lose a final, but moreso that, after drawing away and winning at home vs. the US in World Cup qualifying, we definitely were once again a step behind today, and that overall the performance didn't seem to have the same 'compete' level we saw in the World Cup run, despite putting our best team on the pitch.

We looked an easy out today, that's what bothered me the most.  Rattled, lizard-brained play making decisions, some poor first touches when under pressure leading to turnovers, bad passes.  Just a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad day.

 

[Unnamed Trialist]

I was all set but fell asleep, being a 3am start here. 

Nice to get a full night's sleep. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

5 hours ago, VinceA said:

Herdman straight up implying the CSA does not give him the tools to succeed. Which I mean is a debate all in of itself.

The turnaround is that Herdman is not giving this quality generation the tools they need to succeed. He's had time. It's the same block.

Just like they move to better their careers, there's no reason they couldn't move to better the coaching. Every one of the leading players in the group have had more skilled coaches than Herdman.

In any case it's a false argument, he chose a short prep himself to be able to call in guys for NL and GC and it not meaning an inordinate committment. A bit of honesty, John.

[TGAA_Star]

Canada got outplayed, outfought, outthought and really just had no heart in yesterday's match against the USA. I mean your one chance at almost winning a major trophy 🏆 and couldn't even do that losing to USA especially like this...just embarrassing!!! But we finished runners up which is not bad but I wonder if Herdman is gone after this? He would have to be especially if Canada is trying to get to that next level. Canada ⚽️ 🇨🇦 needs an elite manager period.

[jhoops__]

Herdman’s constant complaining about finances is becoming a bit of a joke.    We all know the situation and it’s reality but work with what you have and stop making excuses…

[TOcanadafan]

The last 2 posts highlight a huge problem for us… lack of funding.  We won’t be able to get an elite coach because we can’t pay them.  And the reality is that if we want to compete amongst the world’s top 25 say, our program needs more resources (aka money) at our disposal, plain and simple… it’s not complaining or bitching, it’s reality.

[CCrTFC]

We're in Concacaf. Besides USA and Mexico, how much do you figure other teams are spending on their programs? We can surely match or better that with the resources we have now, perhaps get a coach that can actually have us break a team down and not just dump long/through balls to space and let speed handle the rest. 

[TGAA_Star]

30 minutes ago, TOcanadafan said:

The last 2 posts highlight a huge problem for us… lack of funding.  We won’t be able to get an elite coach because we can’t pay them.  And the reality is that if we want to compete amongst the world’s top 25 say, our program needs more resources (aka money) at our disposal, plain and simple… it’s not complaining or bitching, it’s reality.

💯 percent agree

[Unnamed Trialist]

28 minutes ago, TOcanadafan said:

The last 2 posts highlight a huge problem for us… lack of funding.  We won’t be able to get an elite coach because we can’t pay them.  And the reality is that if we want to compete amongst the world’s top 25 say, our program needs more resources (aka money) at our disposal, plain and simple… it’s not complaining or bitching, it’s reality.

You don't need an elite coach, just a better one. The Panama coach would be an interesting option.

Everyone says Herdman gives us the added value of helping the CSA get it's act together, could have been true until recently. But after Women's WC and Gold Cup we're fully into a new cycle. 

Imo if Herdman takes an offer and the top players have some say in who's next, we could be better off. The risk will have been confiding a key period for our top players to a coach who can't get the best of them. I mean, in over 20 games there is no evidence Herdman has helped David and Larin combine properly in attack. We're at square one all over the pitch.

[Stryker911]

I know it sucks to admit, but the US is actually an unreal team. They are ao young and have so.many players at really good clubs. By 2026 they will be a deservedly top 10 ranked team in the world and perhaps a dark horse to make a run.

[RJB]

We lost 2-0 away to a team that should beat us most of the time.  I like our chances but Sunday wasn’t our day.  I’m not ready to throw the baby out with the bath water here.  I thought Kristian Jack had some truth in his post game comments, however it was far too dramatic, and there was a lot that wasn’t fair.  Our touch today seemed heavy and we were beat by the better team.  I don’t think that comes down to preparation days or funding.  

[Ruffian]

Herdman still has the team hyped up that if they just try to score they can beat anyone but really they should have played much more defensive yesterday and hoped David or Larin could have popped one in out of nothing.

[blueseeka]

It was definitely a very disappointing result. But the ride that this team has brought us on for the past two years is amazing. This was a team that had small chance of making the World Cup. They ended up #1 in qualifying with victories over Mexico and the US. Made it to the finals of Nations League game. We went from a joke of soccer country to team expected to win. What a wild ride

[gator]

5 minutes ago, blueseeka said:

It was definitely a very disappointing result. But the ride that this team has brought us on for the past two years is amazing. This was a team that had small chance of making the World Cup. They ended up #1 in qualifying with victories over Mexico and the US. Made it to the finals of Nations League game. We went from a joke of soccer country to team expected to win. What a wild ride

The team has definitely raised the bar for our expectations which is great, this match and the WC showed us we have a ways to go to compete with the big boys which is ok considering where we were and as you say a small chance of making the WC! A 2 nil away loss vs a very good team is not the end of the world, some inconsistencies were exposed which may not be a bad thing moving forward, on to the Gold Cup!

[Lansdude]

We were definitely off our game and weren't ready for the moment but this game was as much about the US being good as us being poor. This US has gotten better since qualifying and they keep deepening their pool. It was only a matter of time before they hit an upward trajectory and it's clearly happening now.

[dyslexic nam]

1 hour ago, Stryker911 said:

I know it sucks to admit, but the US is actually an unreal team. They are ao young and have so.many players at really good clubs. By 2026 they will be a deservedly top 10 ranked team in the world and perhaps a dark horse to make a run.

I absolutely hate agreeing with this.  And with MLS improving, they are well positioned to become a sustained force.  Realistically, we are looking at the prospect of consistently being second in the region, with the occasional shake up that maybe lets us hoist some hardware on occasion. 

[shortofbrillant]

5 minutes ago, Lansdude said:

We were definitely off our game and weren't ready for the moment but this game was as much about the US being good as us being poor. This US has gotten better since qualifying and they keep deepening their pool. It was only a matter of time before they hit an upward trajectory and it's clearly happening now.

The US are more talented/ will probably always be more talented then Canada because of their player pool. To beat the US, Canada needs to play a fairly perfect game. Last night Canada looked pretty bad, which isn't to take away from how the US played, but if Canada plays like that against the US, there really have no chance of winning. 

[blueseeka]

As for the actual game. It is obvious we won't be a top nation with our CB's.

There is no way that Johnston should be playing in a back three. It is just not his position, he isn't big enough for it. He struggles so much on jumping set pieces.

Kennedy is playing a level above his talent. He isnt that good. I thought he was bad versus Panama and was shocked when he started tonight. Need the calming presence of Vitoria. But Herdman was probably woried about the speed of the US.

Kamal had such a wonderful pass on David's goal but i have never been a huge fan of his. Everytime they attack down his side, i am expecting a goal or a corner kick.

I truly like Cornelius but i think of him more as a moving the ball forward type of CB. But it would of been so nice to see him play these two competitive matches and figure out if he is up to the challenge. His injury was very disappointing

Hopefully someone moves into these positions. Herdman is obviously trying. Calling up Bombito and possibly McGraw. Two huge guys over 6'3. It was obvious how calm, big and talented the US CB's were under attack. Hopefully we get there soon

[Bison44]

The core group of players has been together a long time and has usually been highly motivated.  None of that was there last night.  We had almost the full first pick roster and USA still outclassed us.  Maybe we swallowed some of the social media hype, "king of CONCACAF" BS.  The WC showed exactly where we were when compared to the best programs in the world. NOT THERE YET.   So did this poor showing last night. Can we pull an win against Mexico or USA when things are all clicking for us, you bet and dont get me wrong that is a huge improvement.  But when the manager is making excuses before the first game was played, did anyone think we were going to be world beaters last night?  And if we cant do anything without Vitoria, why not save him for USA, let someone else go against panama.

Complaining in the media to make excuses (valid or not) is a bad look.  Everytime he squeezes for more dollars (assistants) the womens program hollers bloody murder.  I hope Herdman gets his shit together (media talking points included), and we see new players, hungry players at the GC.  Maybe having StCLair, Bombito/Heibert, CHoiniere, Corbeanu or Shaff have a breakout performance will inject some new life into the program thats seen nothing but off the field bad news since the Qatar.  

Edited June 19, 2023 by Bison44

[Wasp]

9 hours ago, Watchmen said:

Herdman has now had the WC and this final.  Gold Cup is up next.  As I said pre-game, he doesn't have to win it.  But they can't no-show when it matters most yet again.

Not sure I agree with this take. We definitely did not play our best, but it was not what I would call a "no-show" performance. We won the possession battle and had some good chances. If you play this match 10 times we probably win 3-4 of them. 

The USA just had more talent than we do at pretty much every position except for Davies on the left and David up top (although with the way Balogun played and given his track record in the same league as David, maybe this isn't even the case anymore).

This isn't us being our own worst enemies and losing a game we should have won, this is getting beaten by a team that is simply better than us at this point in the cycle.

[Kadenge]

Yesterday's loss was a total and complete team result. Pointing fingers at particular players is a witch-hunt in a game where, perhaps with one exception, every player performed below their level. Was it tactics? We were all calling for a 3 man mid, but that didn't seem to make a difference. The players looked tired and lacked the feistiness and team spirit they  had through WCQ.  For sure we can play better but the reality is that we have just seen 2 games in which the US squad played to their potential.  The US have defenders that are not just big but fast enough to keep up with our wide forwards/WBs.  Their mids have size and speed. Even without McK, Reyna, Musa & Aaronson dominated the mid battle. WE just dont have the quality depth to compete with them. Dest out Scally in, McKennie out Aaronson in, Robinson out Zimmermann in. 

[costarg]

10 hours ago, nolando said:

Kone COMPLETELY stopped running on the play leading up to the second goal, for the record.

Check the replay, Reyna was Osorio's man, and Osorio just stopped walking.

[jhoops__]

Miller has to step in there…his indecisiveness cost us.

[cronaldo7]

Like many others, just very disappointed at the performance. 

I don’t know if I’m inventing things but even when Canada was singing the anthem, it lacked that enthusiasm that we saw during WCQ and the World Cup. There was something missing. Feels like it may have been true since the performance was one of the worst I’ve watched this group play.

The performance lacked that edge that we’ve seen this team have success with. Canada looked like complete passengers which was shocking for such an occasion. 

The game was missing a Richie Lareya crazy-eyes moment. This team plays best with a chip on their shoulder and with unforgiving intensity. There was none of that. It’s hard to understand how.

Vitoria not starting was a bold decision. Yes, he lacks pace but he is an experienced leader, an aerial threat and a great distributor. Kennedy was completely in over his head. For Herdman to think this was a good idea in a final is incredibly naive. Much of the feelings I had during the World Cup. I am a Herdman supporter but this isn’t the first time he has been completely naive in important moments. Part of me thinks someone more experienced is ready to take this generation to the next level. The performance was so utterly poor it didn’t look like any of the players were “running through a wall for Herdman”. Have all the buzz words and motivational speeches run their course? 

Perhaps this an overreaction and this is simply the reality. The US is a damn good team and Canada still have a ways to go. We’ve seen some great performances over past couple of years but the name of the game is consistency, in any sport.